CW-80 Prototype From Lionel Archives

I knew Mike Braga.  Besides trains we would compare notes on back yard lily ponds.  He was customer service director when Lionel was in Michigan.  Sadly he is no longer with us.  Cancer took him; way too young.

Lou N

Interestingly, the first time the CW80 was produced, it was a controller with a separate 80-watt brick, and it was included in some higher-end sets.

Lou:  Thank you for that unfortunate but informative info about Mike Braga passing.  Now I just need to locate Caleb Sullivan.  Sterling 

Sterling posted:

Lou:  Thank you for that unfortunate but informative info about Mike Braga passing.  Now I just need to locate Caleb Sullivan.  Sterling 

@PaperTRW Did you know the gentleman named above?

WoK

Keith L posted:

Interestingly, the first time the CW80 was produced, it was a controller with a separate 80-watt brick, and it was included in some higher-end sets.

14003 "BW"

This prototype was made out of an off-white and stiff type styrofoam then spray painted black but the orange painted handle is made out of metal.  The Lionel label was applied by hand - stuck on - note the label is different than on the typical production piece.  There are at least 6 other differences between the early prototype and the finished product sold to consumers.  I’d like to write an article for one of the train magazines.  Sterling 

Wok

No I never knew any of these these gentlemen whose names are noted on or around the prototype CW-80.   Sterling 

As both Keith and Rob have mentioned, I can confirm that your item was the design study for the BW-80 transformer, NOT the later CW-80 although the designs were outwardly similar.

Mike Braga wasn't involved with the planning of the transformer. The archives were located above the Customer Service Department at the plant at the time, and since Mike was Director of Customer Service, you sent things to him if you wanted something put into the archives. As indicated above, we lost Mike a few years back.

Caleb Sullivan was the model maker that created your transformer model.

TRW

Yes I agree with the additional information received from other Lionel employees who knew Caleb Sullivan that he was a gifted model engineer and well liked.

I wish I could make contact with him to learn more details about this early CW-80 prototype.

thank you 

sterling 

I haven't heard anything about Caleb in a long time. He left Lionel over 15 years ago, and since he was a Michigan transplant, it's possible he relocated back to his native New England.

And again, it wasn't for the CW-80... it was the design study for the BW-80.

TRW

Oops BW-80

I did not know he was from England - if true, locating him just got more complicated.  Thank you Sterling 

NEW England. Massachusetts, I believe.

But that's an educated guess for where he might be today.

TRW

TRW

How did you come to know Caleb?  

somewhat related to this topic, anyone ever seen or heard about the transformer shown below ?  Believe it was shown at the 2007 Toy Fair, when Lionel had an office in NYC.  Kind of an interesting retro style design.

PaperTRW posted:

As both Keith and Rob have mentioned, I can confirm that your item was the design study for the BW-80 transformer, NOT the later CW-80 although the designs were outwardly similar.

Mike Braga wasn't involved with the planning of the transformer. The archives were located above the Customer Service Department at the plant at the time, and since Mike was Director of Customer Service, you sent things to him if you wanted something put into the archives. As indicated above, we lost Mike a few years back.

Caleb Sullivan was the model maker that created your transformer model.

TRW

TRW~

Thanks for the answers; I knew you'd know.

WoK

Does anyone know what the difference is between a Lionel BW-80 and a CW-80?  

Was there a change in form, fit and/or functional of the transformer which caused an Engineering revision change?

Does the first letter denote a rev change:  A to B to C?

thank you 

ed h posted:

somewhat related to this topic, anyone ever seen or heard about the transformer shown below ?  Believe it was shown at the 2007 Toy Fair, when Lionel had an office in NYC.  Kind of an interesting retro style design.

 

 

Now that’s cool. Like a modern 1033.

I believe Caleb lives in North Carolina now.   I found a Caleb from CT, who then lived in Michigan, and now in Madison, NC.

The BW-80 consisted of a controller that externally matches the CW-80... but the actual transformer primary/secondary coil was in a separate brick that outputted 80 watts at 18v.  The controller then knocked it down from there.

I use one here at work every Christmas.  Bullet proof.

Jon

That's pretty cool. I like the "mock up" in foam approach too.  

Eds example is simply awesome in retro styling...except maybe the "upside-down" handles. Those stike me as being as silly as an ebay picture with a tender butted up to the loco in reverse.  The case looks much better than a CWs though.

   I'm gonna drag this all a "little" further back since there are so few prototype threads and every day my chance at confirmation grows slimmer.

 My old KW had throttles that worked in opposing directions, away from you was "on" on both handles. (the right was changed for the production)

   Once the rectifier gave out, Gramps pulled it apart to replace it and found wiper gearing very much like a prewar Z, and two small individual transformer coils inside (+ a 5volt, my disc was ok, the 5v cooked, + an accessory unit too)... but 2 small main coils like a TW, vs one large one shared between two throttle wipers. My lamp covers also had silver trim crimped over thier base flage.

 At least one #90(?) from the set had a green button vs red/orange one too. Similar to the LW green lens L, but bigger dia by maybe 1/32"-1/16th and more opaque too. (when one shattered, I tried moving my LW lens with a broken tab into it as a button; it was too small to fit right)

  I never even knew my handles were backwards until about 10-15yr later when I got a second KW to replace it*. It all imediately clicked though. To this day an emergency shut down on the right hand line might be met with an "instinctual", yet accidental ,full throttle application instead of off. The left side I never screw up though.... I'm right handed too

  I suspect I'm "automotive" the mystery recepient of the largest X-space set made. (The phone# on the papers would tell me, it was blanked in the tca photo I saw.) The phone # never changed since it was installed in the 50s, until just three years ago.) I know that the Adriatic loco (my second) was swiped from the company "closet" to replace a lesser loco last second (Im not fond of 4 driver trains unless they are small ones) and I think the first transformer was taken from the set earlier on to fill another order, and I so I likely got a closet kept prototype just to fill the box again for a big sale to a long term customer (pre-ordered his two black first run GG-1s after many letters begging for one...  "a while" being a great customer already, years later they even sent him very limited thank you locos two or three times[like 1of 6 carbodies & a few on offs (he loved), etc.])

(*the KW got swiped by a train vulture posing as a "real pal" to Grandma after Gramps had passed away... the $3g didn't even cover the GG-1s, let alone what he took after already getting the deal of a lifetime from her(everything really)... and she knew what she was doing. She likely knew more about train collecting than me; her father collected as long as she remembered, and then she married another nut.[joke was Gramps married her for Great Gramps tinplate]  I can still recall her chastising the jerk by phone for being such a loyal friend to Grandpa in death... P.O.S. I think she said before hanging up. Might have been the first time she swore in front of me in my  lifetime.  She couldn't even flip a finger correctly, chose the wrong one a few times when I was older...too funny )

Sterling posted:

TRW

How did you come to know Caleb?  

I worked with him. He was a model maker in the Advanced Design department at Lionel.

Sterling posted:

This prototype was made out of an off-white and stiff type styrofoam then spray painted black but the orange painted handle is made out of metal.  The Lionel label was applied by hand - stuck on - note the label is different than on the typical production piece.  There are at least 6 other differences between the early prototype and the finished product sold to consumers.  I’d like to write an article for one of the train magazines.  Sterling 

It's modeling foam, not styrofoam. You sure the handle is metal? I don't remember that.

Sterling posted:

Does anyone know what the difference is between a Lionel BW-80 and a CW-80?  

Was there a change in form, fit and/or functional of the transformer which caused an Engineering revision change?

Does the first letter denote a rev change:  A to B to C?

thank you 

I named it the BW, but it's colloquially known as the BW-80. Since it has postwar-esque styling, I thought a postwar-type designation was in order. The W in a transformer designation traditionally meant it had a whistle controller, and this 80-watt model was the first entry-level transformer to have a bell control. Ergo, it wasn't a big stretch to think that BW would be a good name, especially since it wasn't used in postwar.

The two-piece BW was expensive to produce. Work immediately began on a one-piece design, with everything needed inside the case. The CW-80 name was chosen simply because it was one letter after B.

Lou N posted:

TRW~

Thanks for the answers; I knew you'd know.

WoK

 No problem!

TRW

EscapeRocks posted:

I believe Caleb lives in North Carolina now.   I found a Caleb from CT, who then lived in Michigan, and now in Madison, NC.

Hi David

Was the full name David Kendall Sullivan - this is the one I saw on a pay to view site.

Sterling posted:

EscapeRocks posted:

I believe Caleb lives in North Carolina now.   I found a Caleb from CT, who then lived in Michigan, and now in Madison, NC.

Hi David

Was the full name David Kendall Sullivan - this is the one I saw on a pay to view site.

Hi Sterling,  

  No it's not.   Whatever site you used got that guy's name backwards.  That's Kendall David Sullivan.  I'm not comfortable giving too much info publicly.    The Person I found was a Caleb Kendall Sullivan (coincidence on the middle name) who originated in Connecticut, then New Baltimore, Michigan which is a stones throw from the old factory in Chesterfield, then North Carolina.

I based my conclusion on the posts in this thread that said he was from New England area originally.  The above fits the bill.    As I said above, there is more detailed info, but I don't feel it's proper to post for all to see.

David Please use my email

americanwallworks1999@yahoo.com

Thank you 

@Sterling  You really should edit that address out of the post and add the address to your profile info where only members can see it. Then you can simply refer to it being there.  No need to temp the web-bots into hanging out

PAPERTRW,

Thanks for the fascinating history of the BW.  As I've said, it is bullet-proof.  I used it at home and then at my office under the company Christmas Tree since 1999 or so.  I love the fact that I can leave the control box accessible, and then place the brick in a spot that's easy to shut off at the end of the day, leaving everything plugged in. 

Jon

Adriatic:  I don’t understand some people’s obsession at secrecy - I have a business website so my email address has been “out there” for over 20 years.  I prefer “more user friendly “ email over using this site to communicate with another individual but unfortunately that did not occur.

Well, a buisness mail is a bit different Sterling, the public definitely needs to access it.  I didn't read it close to realize that it might be a business account. I also used to be very public, but I simply don't need to be anymore

A personal hacking isn't fun though, and an email is a traditional first step in accessing a lot more than that account alone.

  I hope your luck continues to better than my own (twice, many years apart) or my Mom (gee, 5 or 6 times), a brother(the law enforcement account too), or 2 friends has been  

 Even if you don't lose monetarily, the hassle is a very convoluted mess that can take a long time to clear up, months to re-access your own account and even bite you years later because somebody pulls up outdated info on you.

  There are better protections and workarounds to re-accessing today, but they still aren't foolproof.  A broken phone locked me out of reading for a week, and changes for 3 months a while back. 

Spamming really isn't much of issue anymore but I closed two accounts over that too.

As long as your aware, some folk aren't and follow suit of others unknowingy. ..sorry if it bugged you at all.

Maybe he doesn't have post notifications on?

This might work...

@EscapeRocks   There is a request in this thread you may have missed for  you to contact STERLING at americanwallworks1999@yahoo.com

  Another reason for privacy... consider Neil Young using his real name and email and the amount of BS he might endure while trying to relax with some train reading  (E-rocks keyboard made me think of that, and you never can tell, that could even be him)

Adriatic posted:

Maybe he doesn't have post notifications on?

This might work...

@EscapeRocks   There is a request in this thread you may have missed for  you to contact STERLING at americanwallworks1999@yahoo.com

  Another reason for privacy... consider Neil Young using his real name and email and the amount of BS he might endure while trying to relax with some train reading  (E-rocks keyboard made me think of that, and you never can tell, that could even be him)

Thanks @Adriatic

  @Sterling  I'll send you some info in a bit.

FYI, it's not a secrecy thing with me.  It's a non-spam thing.  My personal email is closely guarded.   Even though in my music business I am "small time", their are weirdos out there.  As such I have a few email addresses.  One I use for newsletters for "fans", and a couple I use for online things such as OGR, and things such as eBay and Amazon.     I never get spam on my personal because of this.

That is why I didn't want to share every detail I found on Caleb.

  I like to guide rather than deliver too.

Totally get it. 👍  Being legal isn't necessarily being  polite.

i wonder if they have a prototype AC4400 the one that was cancelled in 1996

Hi Cody

i purchased about 12 boxes of “old” Lionel prototypes and production samples from the Lionel Archives.  Some are diesels but I’m a steam man.  Email me and I will try to send you pictures.  One diesel I know is a very early unpainted body made using modeling foam parts as well as molded plastic parts with Trucks but no electronics in it.  Others are ready to go into production but are body paint samples And some have hand applied decals with RR names or cab numbers never produced.  Very interesting historical stuff.

Hope this helps.  Sterling 

Sterling posted:

Hi Cody

i purchased about 12 boxes of “old” Lionel prototypes and production samples from the Lionel Archives.  Some are diesels but I’m a steam man.  Email me and I will try to send you pictures.  One diesel I know is a very early unpainted body made using modeling foam parts as well as molded plastic parts with Trucks but no electronics in it.  Others are ready to go into production but are body paint samples And some have hand applied decals with RR names or cab numbers never produced.  Very interesting historical stuff.

Hope this helps.  Sterling 

 

 

my email is parrishco0616@gmail.com

i can't find yours