CW-80's, are they really that bad?

I think that any of the G variant (label on underside I believe) and beyond are just fine and should be a great fit with modern motive power.

As long as your child understands how the power "ramps up" after pressing the direction button, then you should be fine for traditional control.

If you go by the common wisdom of many folks that seem to know what they are talking about, the CW80 is about the worst choice you can make.  On the other hand, the actual design looks pretty good, and I don't know why it wouldn't work out just fine.  

I've been offering to pay the shipping to anyone that actually wants to throw away a CW80 for years now, and as yet no one has taken me up on the offer.  Email is in the profile for any takers.  

As for the breakers, the CW80 does not use a 'breaker' but rather has a circuit that detects when there is too much current draw and lowers the output.  As I understand it, this works very fast, but may be the source of some of the reported failures.  The most common thing to fail seems to be the cooling fan, which can be replaced somewhat easily.  

Over all, I have nothing against the CW80, however, unless you can get them dirt cheap,  you'll probably get more bang for your buck with other choices.  Properly reconditioned post-war transformers are good choices, especially the ZW and KW.  

JGL

I have a couple CW80.   Have had them for years.  They work just fine.  One powers a small conventional loop on my layout, and the other I use for some lighting things.  The loop mostly sees postwar locos, and my daughter's K-Line conventional Girls Train Set she got a long time ago when she was a kid.  I've had no problems running these items.

I was in my LHS the other day. Lady comes in with one, totally failed. It was a recent unit out of a RTR set.

I had one. Got it in a PRR Flyer set, Christmas 2004. It worked - sort of. I eventually transitioned to MTH Transformers (better quality IMO) but kept the CW80 for accessory and Bump and Go Trolley operation. It worked OK for that, I really liked the programmable accessory voltage options.

All buttons - direction, whistle, bell - failed on mine. The cooling fan also began making a horrific "chain saw" sound.

Last weekend I decided to upgrade my older MTH transformers with 2 new Z-4000s. In the process, I cut the cord off the CW80 and threw it in the trash.

Too many people criticize Chevy pickups for not being Ferraris. 

We have no problem with our CW-80s.

JD, The enclosed picture is of my layout transformers, they are used to control the trains only. I have been using these for over 8 years and have had NO problems whatsoever! I know a lot of people hate CW80's,  They work great for me! There are 8 and no failures, it works for me! I run postwar, and newer equipment to include Lionel, MTH, and Wiliams!

Old Uncle Al

I used them for a long time with no issues, mostly for auxiliary power.

I took one apart that was stuck on full power. Just for fun I'm attaching  a few of the pictures . 

I was  thinking someone  someday might want to know what's inside one.

And by the way Lionel replaced 3 for me at once from old ready to run sets that were all stuck full power.

I'm pretty sure you want the ones with the G on the serial number. All the ones that I had issues with did not have the G serial number. The replacements from Lionel did.

Larry

Interesting to see the "guts" of one of those things.

I had several of the earlier versions but tossed them a long time ago because they did not perform well with various makes or models of trains and trolleys that I have. The noise of the fan also was a bit annoying, at least for me.

I imagine more recent models would have had any problems corrected. I really liked the appearance of the CW-80.

I understand it can go either way with these but I had nothing but trouble with mine. I had 4-5 of them  through the years out of starter sets and a few I picked up standalone. 

As mentioned above, reconditioned and maintained PW transformers work great for me.

For what you are looking to use it for, I would think it should work. Remember, it is only 80 watts, so it is not really made to run multiple trains.

Also, if you ever plan to use command control, people have had problems with the chopped sine wave. However, I believe you can run it at full power in a command environment, and the sine wave is not as distorted at a full 18 volts. Don't use it with an MTH PS-1 engine. That is where I have heard the biggest issues. 

If you need more power, the Lionel GW is a very good option.

George

You only hear about the bad ones. there are thousands of them out there working just fine.

Remember older PW transformers do not have both whistle and bell controls.

I have 5 that do small tracks, conventional engines, trolly, lights, and a Lionel gantry crane, no problems with any of them.  I have one that you can hear the fan noise, but that eventually stops.

I've had a newer model starter-set CW-80 that died with hardly any usage, but of course past the warranty. You will find CW-80 accepters and haters here; I'm a hater                Invest in some MTH Z-1000s instead.

The controls/ motherboard are terrible. But! the actual internal transformer is pretty good. I usually just take them and bust them open and use them as a fixed 18v power supply and or step down the voltage for accessories.

Firewood

A suggestion. If you still have it.

Send Lionel a e-mail, tell them it died with the problem, after sending you a shipping  number bet ya they will tell you to cut the cord  and  mail it.

Then they will send you a recondition one.  Just saying.

I know things have changed recently, but you can test the waters to see.

Larry

PS. Just try it. All three of mine were out of warranty. I had a dozen or more RTR sets at the time and couldn't even tell them which set.

They were very nice about it.

Thanks guys.  I will be looking to pick up 2 here shortly once I get my benchwork started.  

Old Uncle Al posted:

JD, The enclosed picture is of my layout transformers, they are used to control the trains only. I have been using these for over 8 years and have had NO problems whatsoever! I know a lot of people hate CW80's,  They work great for me! There are 8 and no failures, it works for me! I run postwar, and newer equipment to include Lionel, MTH, and Wiliams!

Old Uncle Al

Nice line up; what's the large (white?) unit off to the right of this picture? I see what looks like a couple of MRC-looking knobs on it...

Mark in Oregon

I was going to use a cw80's accessory posts to power 41 switches on my layout.  Any thoughts about that usage?  

I have 4, all from RTR sets.  Other than a loud fan (Which can be addressed.) I have no issues with them.

The CW-80 is a good unit.  The variable accessory posts are great to have. The ZW-style throttle is very nice in my opinion.  I'll second the offer to pay shipping if anyone wants to declutter their home of unwanted CW-80s.  

I have several CW-80s and have put several CW-80s back in to service. 

The most common failure is the cheap sleeve bearing fan getting loud.  Buy a $6 40mmx40mmx10mm ball bearing fan and problem solved. I've never had to re-replace a fan in one where I've replaced the original fan.  There is a fuse in the power wire inside the case - not friendly to user replacement. If it blows, the unit appears dead.  You can replace it with an in-line fuse, or a self resetting PTC.  It is rare for the fuse to blow. 

The short detection is much quicker than a standard 5amp breaker.  It is not a PH-180, but it is quick enough.  I'm much more comfortable with it than any of the post war lionel arc welders.

The CW-80 does not have a transorb or TVS.  These are pennies per pile from digikey or ebay.  I would add one across the outputs if running an engine with modern electronics.  For post-war engines a TVS is not necessary. 

For conventional control, the chopped sine-wave usually gives better slow speed control than a pure sine wave transformer.  Some MTH engines, particularly PS1, do not do well with chopped sine wave conventional control.  At full throttle the CW-80s waveform is real close to sine wave - running command engines of any manufacturer is no problem.

If the electronics in the CW-80 do go belly up for some reason, the iron core is good for a pure sine wave 18v at 10amps.

Andy

Strummer posted:

Old Uncle Al posted:

JD, The enclosed picture is of my layout transformers, they are used to control the trains only. I have been using these for over 8 years and have had NO problems whatsoever! I know a lot of people hate CW80's,  They work great for me! There are 8 and no failures, it works for me! I run postwar, and newer equipment to include Lionel, MTH, and Wiliams!

Old Uncle Al

Nice line up; what's the large (white?) unit off to the right of this picture? I see what looks like a couple of MRC-looking knobs on it...

 

Mark in Oregon

Hi Mark, just a little info on my layout, It has it's own room, around the wall, 13 1/2ft. x 23ft. with a 4ft. isle. it has 7 train loops on 4 levels, and two trolley loops. It is still  very much a a work in progress! I use the CW80's for power, 1 per loop except the trolleys which share 1 CW80. The White unit you saw is a "Roanoke Electronics" "Super Horn", it has four different horn settings for both steam and diesel, and also has a bell switch, again with four setting for steam and diesel. I bought it used, have had it approx. 7 years and have speakers around the room, I love it! Hope this helps. Old Uncle Al.

Uncle Al

Right after I asked this, I went to eBay, just to "look around", and sure enough, found that there are currently several Roanoke units up for grabs. I figured that's what yours is...

Thanks for responding.

Mark in Oregon

I have my first CW 80 purchased on ebay at a great low price works perfect all the way around some fan noise on power up but it goes away quickley and many home computers will start with fan noise shortly after go silent this CW 80 is a nice little transformer unless your trying to power up too much stuff

This is the waveform of the CW-80, and it explains why there's issues with some equipment.  The excessive ringing is like no other transformer I've looked at.

Personally?  I'd look elsewhere.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

This is the waveform of the CW-80, and it explains why there's issues with some equipment.  The excessive ringing is like no other transformer I've looked at.

Personally?  I'd look elsewhere.

That's the best explanation I have seen, and I agree. I sold mine after experiencing issues with a couple of engines. It ran the starter set engine fine, but none of the more expensive engines.

George

rebuilder posted:

I have my first CW 80 purchased on ebay at a great low price works perfect all the way around some fan noise on power up but it goes away quickley and many home computers will start with fan noise shortly after go silent this CW 80 is a nice little transformer unless your trying to power up too much stuff

Great for Accessories 

I have a small layout with just one operating track but will expand later I really like the CW but I have a TW and LW to expand if I need it no issues with the CW

Have one...hate it......doesn't even handle my Polar Express set under the tree at Christmas. Going to get a MTH Z-1000 soon.

personally I would never buy another CW-80 but some guys swear by them. I have a KW on my layout which works great.

Bob

I don't recall if I've mentioned this before, but the CW-80 has undergone an electronics redesign this year. Waiting on the first samples. It'll be using the same core tech as the redesigned PH-180. There will no longer be a need for the cooling fan and the noise will be vastly improved. The new ones will be shipping likely in December.

sorry to hear the CW isn’t working for you. I have the non lionchief polar express and it runs great including the operating track on the accessory side I also have the 2017 lionchief polar express but run that on the supplied power pack no problem

a redisgned CW will be nice but the one I have works perfect the fan noise on start up stops quickley and everything runs great

The “NEW” CW will be priced well over $100.00, believe me!  Their retail price now is already there!!

Dave Olson posted:

I don't recall if I've mentioned this before, but the CW-80 has undergone an electronics redesign this year. Waiting on the first samples. It'll be using the same core tech as the redesigned PH-180. There will no longer be a need for the cooling fan and the noise will be vastly improved. The new ones will be shipping likely in December.

Good news Dave, I suspect they went with a FET based control instead of triacs, probably a good move.

SJC posted:

I was in my LHS the other day. Lady comes in with one, totally failed. It was a recent unit out of a RTR set.

I had one. Got it in a PRR Flyer set, Christmas 2004. It worked - sort of. I eventually transitioned to MTH Transformers (better quality IMO) but kept the CW80 for accessory and Bump and Go Trolley operation. It worked OK for that, I really liked the programmable accessory voltage options.

All buttons - direction, whistle, bell - failed on mine. The cooling fan also began making a horrific "chain saw" sound.

Last weekend I decided to upgrade my older MTH transformers with 2 new Z-4000s. In the process, I cut the cord off the CW80 and threw it in the trash.

'The cooling fan also began making a horrific "chain saw" sound.'

LOL that seems hilarious to me since I have a chain saw ringtone on my phone.  My CW-80 makes an annoying sound for about 30 seconds then quiets down.  I bought a RTR set in 2011 or 2012 and it functions just fine.  No problems.

I had one and it died.  Not impressed.  RIP in the landfill.

Although I do not own one, it depends on the generation of the year it was made.  There were serious problems with the early ones, which required modifications.  I have read so many threads of the pro’s & con’s throughout all the changes, that I would not buy one.  My mindset is that the CW-80, is the number assigned by Lionel, as a “Door Stop”, not a transformer.  Just my opinion.

Dave Olson posted:

I don't recall if I've mentioned this before, but the CW-80 has undergone an electronics redesign this year. Waiting on the first samples. It'll be using the same core tech as the redesigned PH-180. There will no longer be a need for the cooling fan and the noise will be vastly improved. The new ones will be shipping likely in December.

Dave: I had two CW-80's I wanted to run Z-Stuff 1008 relays using the ACC post. I set the post at 14V but kept blowing the solid state relays. A friend came over with a oscilloscope and found that both units upon turn-on the voltage spiked to 32V before settling down. The relays were good to 25V only. Has the redesign fixed this issue? For the time being I am using the throttle and bringing the voltage up slow from zero.

Joe

William 1 posted:

I had one and it died.  Not impressed.  RIP in the landfill.

The CW-80 has a high capacity(7-8 amps) iron core transformer inside that is very useful around the layout for other applications - to landfill them is a real waste.

Agree with Rob; the CW80 (since version G) has been very useful; for the price, hard to beat; if it dumps, use the core; firmly believe happy users outnumber the negatives on this thread by a huge number; no guts, no glory.  Falcon70