Daylight color comparison first Legacy GS-4 and latest Legacy GS-4

breezinup posted:

Has anyone compared the colors of Lionel's first Legacy GS-4 Daylight (no. 11127) and the 2016 versions? Seems I've heard the 2016 versons have a slightly lighter shade of orange and red. I'm in the market for a GS-4 to match the 18" streamlined aluminum cars I have (no. 29115, cataloged in 2005), and wondering if the earlier GS-4 would be a better match.

You could could always purchase a black version of the GS-4 (both MTH and Sunset/3rd Rail made them), then you would still be prototypically correct, without any worries about color matching.

FWIW, I've been told 11127 matches 29115 (4 pack) and 25416 (2 pack).  I have the GS4, but am trying to buy the cars. Both also have Southern Pacific Lines on sides.  Later versions are Southern Pacific.  TW

I have the SP cars from Lionel and the 3rd Rail GS4 and the paint is a dead on match 

Matt Makens posted:

I have the SP cars from Lionel and the 3rd Rail GS4 and the paint is a dead on match 

The 3rd Rail GS4 doesn't match any of the Lionel GS4s or GS2s. The 3rd Rail GS4 has a duller, more yellowish tone of paint. It may match the Lionel Shasta Daylight cars, which are perhaps the cars that you're speaking of. The Lionel Shasta cars do not match the Lionel GS4 or GS2 engines. They only match the Shasta Alco PAs Lionel did, which were cataloged with the Shasta cars (and, apparently, happen to match the 3rd Rail GS4 as well.) Below is a close up shot of a Shasta car, and the picture below shows a Lionel GS2 pulling Lionel Shasta cars. The difference in color between the regular Daylight and the Shasta Daylight is very evident. The 3rd Rail GS4 is shown below.

TedW posted:

FWIW, I've been told 11127 matches 29115 (4 pack) and 25416 (2 pack).  I have the GS4, but am trying to buy the cars. Both also have Southern Pacific Lines on sides.  Later versions are Southern Pacific.  TW

Yes, these cars match the 11127 GS4. The question is, do they also match the newer 2016 versions of the GS4? Or, to put it another way, do the newer 2016 GS4 versions match the colors of the older 2008 11127 GS4? 

It seems I've heard some indication that the 2016 versions have a slightly different shade of paints than the 2008 version (which means the 2016 engines wouldn't match the earlier Daylight cars), but I'm not sure if that's really true or not.

Do you think any version subsequent to the 08 GS4 #4436 will match the passenger cars in 29115?  I certainly could be wrong, but I thought each version was unique.  Along with dropping the "Lines" in the naming script?  Here's a link to information on the original GS steam locomotives. Daylight engines. 

You may also want to consider a Legacy GS2. I have one in the daylight paint scheme for sale right now...

https://ogrforum.com/t...s-hard-to-find-items

TedW posted:

Do you think any version subsequent to the 08 GS4 #4436 will match the passenger cars in 29115?  I certainly could be wrong, but I thought each version was unique.  Along with dropping the "Lines" in the naming script?  Here's a link to information on the original GS steam locomotives. Daylight engines. 

GS Versions may have been unique mechanically, but the Daylight colors probably remained the same. As far as Lionel's engines, their first scale TMCC GS2 and first Legacy GS4 both matched Lionel's Daylight engines and cars from the MPC era (remarkably), so Lionel was very good about matching the Daylight colors up until that time. I'm pretty sure Lionel changed manufacturers in China subsequent to the '08 GS4 production, and for some reason the color match might have changed.

I think someone posted something last year indicating that the color had changed somewhat on the 2016 versions. I would be great to see a direct comparison. But I have a feeling that it will be necessary to track down the older version of the GS4 to get a direct color match with those aluminum cars.

Might be well to remember that in the real wold, rarely did the daylight painted GS class locomotives on the Southern Pacific ever "color match exactly" the daylight painted passenger equipment. The steam locomotives had a much harder life, than the passenger cars.

I have a Williams GS4 Daylight which doesn't match my K-Line 14 car 21" set.  Not having the drift cards, I don't know which one is correct, but I suspect the K-Lines ones are a little dark and the Williams version a little bright.  However, it doesn't bother me at all especially considering how incorrect the K-line cars are in configuration.  Doesn't mean I don't enjoy it.  If I was really that concerned, I'd get a GGD Daylight with the correct articulated coaches and 3 unit diner and the corresponding matching GS4.

Hmmm, interesting.  As the picture I posted is the 11127 GS4, is that the older version you wanted to track down?  Or did you want to direct match a 2016 GS4 version to the 2008 GS4 version?

TedW posted:

Hmmm, interesting.  As the picture I posted is the 11127 GS4, is that the older version you wanted to track down?  Or did you want to direct match a 2016 GS4 version to the 2008 GS4 version?

In my opinion, I would prefer the earlier/original Legacy GS-4 model, even though it has the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering on the tender, and the train number indicator boxes in the original "as delivered" forward position, because it has the CORRECT SP passenger/Daylight whistle. 

I'm hoping the 29115 pack will come available when the "21inch" cars are released, and the guys will b wanting to upgrade. Maybe someday. But then again maybe a black version would solve all the "so called" problems, HotWater.   

I have the Lionel #6-11127 Legacy GS-4 Daylight.  Matt

TedW posted:

Hmmm, interesting.  As the picture I posted is the 11127 GS4, is that the older version you wanted to track down?  Or did you want to direct match a 2016 GS4 version to the 2008 GS4 version?

Not trying to track anything down. I'm simply asking if the 2016 GS4s have the same color shades of orange and red as the 2008 GS4. I have the 18" aluminum passenger cars from 2005. The 2008 GS4 was a color match for these cars. I'd  prefer to get one of the newer 2016 GS4 engines, but not if the color has changed from the 2008 GS4, because then the colors on the newer engines wouldn't match the cars I have.

boin106 posted:

I have the Lionel #6-11127 Legacy GS-4 Daylight.  Matt

OK. The question is, how do the colors compare to the 2016 versions of the GS4.

Well, we keep this thread alive hoping someone with either, both engines, or new engine/2005 cars, will tell us. We get your question.  Seems either there is no one who can compare or they aren't replying to the thread. Best bet now would be to use the Lionel "talk to us" option and ask them.  Wish we could help more.  If you wanna sell your cars, I'm interested!!    TW

It's quite amazing how this simple question results in answers to every other angle or question on a Daylight related steam train.  Different engines, prototypical comments (good info, but not what was asked), offers to sell a different engine, comparisons to other manufacturers engines, etc.  Good grief!

I can understand people trying to be helpful by showing a single photo, but with cameras (and lighting conditions) being different for each picture, it would really only help if the items of interest were photographed TOGETHER.  (either the 2 steamers in question, or ideally the newer steamer next to the older cars.)

I'm very sorry I don't have a useful answer either, as I only own the Shasta cars with the PA-1s from several years ago.  I know those are not the cars in question, so I won't bother with a picture (and I don't have either GS-4 model to try to show a match anyway).

Good luck, breezinup, I wish you luck in your quest!

-Dave

Hot Water posted:

TedW posted:

Hmmm, interesting.  As the picture I posted is the 11127 GS4, is that the older version you wanted to track down?  Or did you want to direct match a 2016 GS4 version to the 2008 GS4 version?

In my opinion, I would prefer the earlier/original Legacy GS-4 model, even though it has the "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering on the tender, and the train number indicator boxes in the original "as delivered" forward position, because it has the CORRECT SP passenger/Daylight whistle. 

And if nothing else, it's an amazing engine! My friend has one and I run it all the time. 

GG1 4877 posted:

I have a Williams GS4 Daylight which doesn't match my K-Line 14 car 21" set.  Not having the drift cards, I don't know which one is correct, but I suspect the K-Lines ones are a little dark and the Williams version a little bright.  However, it doesn't bother me at all especially considering how incorrect the K-line cars are in configuration.  Doesn't mean I don't enjoy it.  If I was really that concerned, I'd get a GGD Daylight with the correct articulated coaches and 3 unit diner and the corresponding matching GS4.

Actually, the Williams colors are quite accurate. Here's a couple pictures from the 4449 site. As can be seen, in fact, the Daylight colors are very rich and bright. The middle shot is of a K-Line Daylight tender. Quite dull in comparison. The colors are flat, and the red is heading toward a shade of pink.

So some further research found the new 2016 GS4 Daylight at trainworld. Interesting is the second paragraph of the description. It sez "No. 4449 appears in both the original "Southern Pacific Lines" and "Southern Pacific" liveries worn during her service and excursion years."  So maybe there's a chance the colors will match. TW.  2016 Daylight GS4

Sorry I missed this thread earlier, breezy.  But I think this should be a somewhat "definitive" post that will help answer your question -- especially given where we are in the thread thus far.  These quick iPhone photos show  the 2016 GS4 Daylight loco with the Daylight StationSounds diner from 2005. 

Photo1:  The first photo illustrates the most direct comparison close-up of the 2016 GS-4's tender and one of the 2005 Daylight passenger cars:

For the most part, unless you are ultra picky... these match very nicely to my eyes.  One could argue they are not an EXACT match, but the colors are VERY close.  And a few color-drop samplings in Photoshop show variation even within the same piece of rolling stock due to lighting differences.  Watching this train in motion will only make it more difficult to notice any discernible color variations -- much less actually object to them.

To the naked eye (without any benefit of Photoshop color-drop samplings),  I would say the top and bottom red stripes on the tender have a SLIGHTLY paler red tint to them, whereas the same stripes on the passenger car have a SLIGHTLY deeper red tint.  And this observation was indeed confirmed with random color-drop samplings.  But again, certainly not a show-stopper to me.  And quite honestly, had the question not been raised by the OP, I probably would have thought nothing of it.  Or at worst just written off the variation to a different factory producing the locomotive over 10 years after the passenger cars.

Photo2:  The second photo zooms back a bit to see the entire locomotive and the StationSounds diner.  At this viewing distance and angle, any color variation isn't even worth noting IMHO:

Photo3:  A close-up of the tender with "Southern Pacific Lines" graphics trailing locomotive #4449:

I believe 4 Daylight paint-scheme locomotives were produced in 2016.  Two had "Southern Pacific Lines" in the top red stripe, while the other two had "Southern Pacific" in the middle orange stripe.

Photo4:  A close-up of the StationSounds diner produced in 2005 trailing the tender produced in 2016.  Again, at this angle the tender stripes fall into the shadows and any color variation is completely indiscernible.

Hope this has been helpful!    I'd say go for it, as I doubt you'd be disappointed with the appearance of either locomotive with the 2005 passenger cars.

David

Both locos have to be photographed with the same camera/settings/room light for comparison purposes. Two different locos in two different settings/cameras/light with not be useful.

Scrapster

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Both locos have to be photographed with the same camera/settings/room light for comparison purposes. Two different locos in two different settings/cameras/light with not be useful.

...

While technically true, that only delays an ultimate decision until the OP finds somebody with all three items (i.e., 2008 GS-4, 2016 GS-4, and 2005 passenger cars).     If he is satisfied knowing the answer to: "Will a 2016 GS-4 look good with the 2005 passenger cars?", then he has that answer NOW  --  assuming paint-matching  is the overriding factor in making a purchase decision (i.e., vs. Railsounds accuracy, locomotive features, etc...).  Sounds like the OP already KNOWS the 2008 GS-4 is an EXACT color match to the 2005 passenger cars.  So the photos above should at least help him determine if the 2016 GS-4 colors are a "good enough" match to the 2005 passenger cars.  They certainly were for me! 

Bottom line... if there are even any  discernible color variations between the 2008 GS-4 and the 2016 GS-4, we're splitting hairs.  And certainly NOTHING like the variations when comparing Lionel, MTH and K-Line Daylight steamers... where we're often comparing bright orange to gold, and deep/rich red to a very noticeable pale red.

Have fun, breezy!!!  You'll be fine with either the 2008 or 2016 GS-4. 

David

Not to muddy this any further but my question is about the sheen on the LIONEL 6-83193 LEGACY SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES #4449 GS-4. Does it have the same luster as the 6-11127 GS-4? The aluminum cars from 2005 have a luster as does the 2008 GS-4. So does the 2016 GS-4 have the same luster as the 2008 GS-4 and the 2005 aluminum passenger cars? When I bought the aluminum Olympian Hiawatha cars that were produce to go with the Milwaukee Road S-3 Northern I was disappointed at how dull the finish was. So much so that I sold them in short order. The new GS-4's look awesome but not if they won't match my 7 car aluminum passenger cars sheen. And I did own the 6-11127 GS-4 but like a dumb bell I sold it... Thanks for your help, you folks are the greatest!

David (Rocky Mountaineer), thanks very much for your comments. (I've been out a few days and didn't get a chance to respond earlier.) You were one of the few who seemed to understand what I was originally asking, although I certainly didn't think it was all that complicated! 

Your comments and photos are certainly the most helpful and definitive. It seems the conclusion would be that while the 2008 GS-4 might be an identical match for the aluminum cars, the 2016 GS-4s are very close, close enough that it is probably not a discertainable difference or enough of a difference to matter to most people.  

One other appearance issue was raised by your photos, however, that being the alignment of the striping between the engine and the tender. Their relative placement on the shelf surface may well be a factor, but it does appear in the photos that they are somewhat out of alignment. 

breezinup posted:

...

One other appearance issue was raised by your photos, however, that being the alignment of the striping between the engine and the tender. Their relative placement on the shelf surface may well be a factor, but it does appear in the photos that they are somewhat out of alignment. 

That may very well appear that way because the foam inserts were still in place when I photographed these items.

Also wonder why this one wasn't placed in 3-Rail Scale.  It's focused on scale engines, scale passenger cars, and proper color. The O27/Traditional forum is somewhat the catch-all, understandably, but this seems in the 3RS wheelhouse, no?