DCS 5.0 TIU Rev L USB Port Problems on iMac

This is from the cover page form the DCS Loader Program

To Use This Loader You Will Need:

- A standard RS 232 cable, USB-Serial adapter, or a type A-B USB (for Rev L TIU only) cable which you can obtain from any computer or office supply store. - A STEREO mini-to-mini 1/8” audio cable available from MTH or many electronic stores like Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc. - An AC or DC Transformer. Z1000 bricks are the most versatile to use. -  The tether cable MUST be a 4-conductor handset cord from any standard telephone. This is the cable that connects the handset to the base of the phone. Radio Shack and other electronic or phone stores sell these. The cable MUST BE 4 CONDUCTORS on both ends.

A PC running at least Windows XP. Mac users may find that running a Windows emulator might work.

See link below - Key word "Might" - I had my son bring over his PC.  & got it done. 

* Being a MacUser and did not want to spend about $185 for Windows - Like putting earrings on a pig.

http://mthtrains.com/dcs-consu...r-program-version-50

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway

Howardih-

where is that error message pop up? Is that message from Windows or is it from Mac OS? 

The error message is from Mac OS El Capitan on a MacBook Pro. I tried changing USB ports on the MacBook and even tried with and without the stereo cable plugged in. I also tried to see if adding the auxiliary 18 volt power source would help. The A-B USB cable appears to be the same used to connect parallel-port printers to a PC. The MTH web site talks about adding "Windows USB Programs for DCS Loader Program" and I did try to run that through as well. I thought about alternatively trying to create a virtual serial port on the virtual PC within Parallels and then using the old serial-to-USB Radio Shack cable that I've used in the past, but this is even more complicated. When attaching the 18-volt power source, the red LED in the TIU lights up; it does not light up when plugging in the A-B USB cable alone. My understanding is that the A-B USB cable alone should provide data and power to the TIU for updating.

I thought you were running an iMac not a MacBook, but that is symantics. Try booting up in windows and using the computer as a windows machine. Just hold down the option key while the Mac powers up and youll get the drive selection screen. I dont use parallels because it causes weird issues and slows the machine down to a snails pace. Make sure you have the MacBook charger plugged in, running on battery power puts the machine into power save mode which shuts off the power to the USB ports to conserve energy. If you are still having troubles try purchasing a powered USB hub. A powered USB hub will have an additional power supply that will supply the power to the usb ports to run certain devices.

Many thanks for the suggestion on the powered USB hub. Do people running straight Windows machines encounter the same problem with USB power requirements? I should point out that I tried the same thing on my iMac with the same issue.  The MacBook is also on house current and is connected by wire to my home network to maximize throughput.

Matt,

Try booting up in windows and using the computer as a windows machine. Just hold down the option key while the Mac powers up and youll get the drive selection screen

In order to do that, he must have previously built a Windows partition with Apple's Boot amp Utility and then installed in it a version of Windows.

Howard,

Parallels gives you the option of assigning USB ports to either the Mac or Windows environment.

In Parallels Desktop, go to the Devices menu, External Devices, Configure, USB & Bluetooth, and assign the USB devices to Windows.

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I use Parallels because of Windows-only software I require for my business.  And it was specifically because I did not want to be stuck with a defined partition size that Parallels (VMWare would work as well) was my option. One thing I need to also investigate is how Parallels translates a USB port from the Mac into a "working" USB port that can be "seen" as a COM port in the DCS Loader. Does the DCS Consumer Loader V5.0 include a capability to search for the TIU from a USB port as well as a serial, or does the Rev L TIU recognize the input from the A-B USB cable as a "serial" connection? I am thinking my best bet may be to attend National Wi-Fi Day at my LHS (JustTrains in DE) and actually watch how the Rev L TIU is being upgraded. That may be the best education I get.

Howard,

Does the DCS Consumer Loader V5.0 include a capability to search for the TIU from a USB port as well as a serial, or does the Rev L TIU recognize the input from the A-B USB cable as a "serial" connection?

Use the Options menu in the Loader Program to search for a TIU port before you insert the jumper cable between the ProtoDispatch and ProtoCast ports. It will search using the USB or serial port connections. Just don't have both connected at the same time.

When doing actual software upgrades, follow the on-screen instructions exactly.

So I use VMware Fusion and the USB "assignment" Barry speaks of is where your problem could be.  When I plug a USB device into my Mac with a virtual machine running, it prompts me with "connect to the MAC or the Virtual Machine".  The key there is don't connect the USB until the virtual machine is running.  I also had an issue trying to use the automatic setting for the COM port in the DCS Loader software.  That did not work for me.  I had to hard select the COM port (COM3 in my case) and then it worked like a charm.

Good Luck.

It just so much easier to boot in windows than to mess around with the emulator package

Matt,

Not ot get off topic but I'm not sure if I agree with that. Every time i use it it requires so many system resources I found it to be faster to just boot up the Windows OS. There were a few times where I found it convenient to switch between the two to transfer info form one OS to the other but buying NTFS for Mac cut those instances down considerably. I especially find it important to boot up in windows when I am doing something important such as upgrading the firmware on a piece of hardware where an expected system crash could potentially destroy the hardware

Hiwardih,

at this point I would say that you "most likely" have an issue with your TIU. Macs are capable of providing higher current on a USB port than the USB spec requires. A typical USB 2 port is spec'd to provide 500mA of current. However, when apple began selling their external CD/DVD 'Super Drive' they bumped the current output on all of their USB ports to something closer to what USB 3 ports spec, which is 900mA.  So the fact that you are seeing that particular message from MacOS indicates to me that your TIU is trying to sink more than the Mac will give, and since you are using a newer Mac, is already very generous. 

To remove any confusion about the involvement of Windows and Parallels, make sure that you quit Parallels and it is no longer running.  If this truly is an issue with the TIU sinking more current than it should, it will happen regardless of having parallels running or not.  If it still happens, then even more confidence that you have a TIU issue and this has nothing to do with the way you are trying to run Windows. 

Aand as a final step, you can buy one of these from eBay, or anywhere else, and actually have a number to tell the MTH service people. I'm willing to test my REV L TIU connected to my Mac and see how much current it is sinking and then we can compare (unless of course someone has already done this)  but since it is USB 2 based, it should be less than 500mA .

http://m.banggood.com/Kcx-017-...Tester-p-950855.html

I wouldnt jump to bad TIU just yet. DCS can be finnicky but its not always broken

I finally achieved success and here are my notes for anyone wishing to install the Rev L TIU, especially if you plan on the Wifi module option. I had to abandon the Mac/Parallels VM Win10 option because I could not properly set up the USB-to-serial driver that allows communication between the computer and the TIU using the A-B USB cable.  So I went back to my old Toshiba laptop with Win7. First, execute Windows Update to make sure you have the latest versions of everything, including the .NET versions. Then go into the MTH website, download and install the USB-serial driver noted in their March 2015 press release. Make sure the TIU is not attached to the PC. I then restarted the PC, then plugged in the TIU with the A-B USB cable. Win7 recognized the device and installed the driver. I then got into Device Manager and looked to see what COM port number was assigned to that driver.  I closed all Windows programs and executed the DCS V5.0 Consumer Loader. Rather than letting the program choose a COM port, I set the COM port to the one assigned by the driver after seeing it appear in the serial port dropdown list.  I then went through the instructions exactly as Barry has emphasized (thanks Barry!). One caveat is that I was not able to get the Loader program to send code to the TIU without also attaching the auxiliary adapter power source. Once I did that the loader program worked perfectly. The instructions lead one to believe that the current through the A-B USB cable is sufficient, but I don't know if that is true.  I look at the A-B USB cable as really nothing more than an alternative application to the direct connection to the serial port on the TIU; execution time for the binary code into the TIU seemed exactly the same as before. If MTH is listening, I would suggest that, at some point, they issue more detailed instructions for getting the Rev L TIU up and running. And, for those of us you have come to love Apple products (because you don't have to figure out COM ports and install drivers, etc.), maybe MTH would consider a future OS X installation. It would certainly tie together their use of iOS for the Wifi app. I very much appreciate all the assistance many of you gave me through this ordeal. I learned that one can never get rid of an old Windows machine. At least the Rev L install doesn't depend on punch cards!

Howard,

The instructions lead one to believe that the current through the A-B USB cable is sufficient, but I don't know if that is true.

That is absolutely the case, If your older PC's USB ports couldn't power the TIU, it's possible that they just aren't putting out the necessary 5 volts DC. I've upgraded dozens of Rev. L TIUs via USB Port, of both power and data, without any issues whatsoever.

I would suggest that, at some point, they issue more detailed instructions for getting the Rev L TIU up and running. 

Honestly, I find that the own-screen instructions in the Loader Program 5.0 to be more than adequate to properly instruct one as regards DCS updates.

What else would you want MTH to include?

maybe MTH would consider a future OS X installation

After years of discussion with MTH, I feel certain that this will not happen in our lifetime.

Further, though the markets for iOS vs. Android devices are both very large, regrettably the market for Windows is considerably larger than for Mac OS X. Comparing iOS vs. Android with Windows vs. Mac OS X is apples and oranges (pun intended).

Thanks for you reply.  You know, I didn't think about that USB issue but it makes complete sense.  And that is a very old laptop that I have.

Barry,

After much trepidation, I was able to successfully upgrade my TIU Rev I3 and remote both to DCS 5.0 using my MacBook Air running an ancient version of WinXP in VirtualBox and a USB-serial adapter cable. I just bought the 3rd edition of your book, and it is enormously informative and helpful.

I thought the DCS upgrade would be the hard part.

Separately, however, I can't get my brand-new WIU online. I'm not sure it's even booting up correctly. When I plug in the power adapter, the wifi LED, LAN LED, and PWR LED all three stay on solid, flickering just slightly (image attached). There is no MTH_DCS-XXXX SSID broadcasting. This has not changed any since I first applied power.

I've followed the directions explicitly, both for "Using your home Wi-Fi Network" and "Using a wired Ethernet Network" (ethernet connection) steps per the WI-FI DCS User's Guide. There appears to be no MTH_DCS-XXXX network at any point, and no 192.168.143.1 IP on the network when directly connected by ethernet cable.

I'm concerned mostly at the 3 LEDs that remain lit (wifi, LAN, PWR), as it doesn't really make sense that both the wifi and LAN lights would be lit together. Also, that there's no MTH_DCS-XXXX wifi SSID visible when the top switch is in MTH mode.

I've tried cycling the WIU power, connected/not connected to TIU, direct ethernet connection to the home router -- but no change to LEDs, and no MTH_DCS-XXXX SSID or 192.168.143.1 IP on the network.

Do you know of anything I've missed, or any condition that would cause the LED status I'm seeing?

I'll be disappointed if the WIU proves defective out-of-the-box, considering how happy I was with the DCS upgrade success 

Thanks in advance,

Bob

Bob,

Some observations:

• The LAN LED should not be lit if there's an Ethernet cable plugged in. However, you should also have a TIU connected to the WIU as well, before powering it up
• If the MTH/Home switch is in Home position, you will not see MTH_DCS-XXXX in your list of available networks. For Home mode, you need to log into your own home network, after connecting the WIU to your network via the WPS buttons on the WIU and your router
• If you place the WIU in MTH mode, then you will see a "network" named MTH_DCS-XXXX. You would then select that as your network and connect to it with the password mthdcswifi.

I suggest that you remove power, change the MTH/Home switch to the MTH position, connect a TIU, and then power up the WIU. Once all the lights sort themselves out (give it a few minutes), you should  see MTH_DCS-XXXX in your list of available networks on your smart device. Connect to it, launch the app, refresh the app's screen, power on an engine, and search for engines from the engine roster screen.

Once you have an MTH mode connection working, we can discuss how to instead connect to your home network.

I suggest that you remove power, change the MTH/Home switch to the MTH position, connect a TIU, and then power up the WIU. Once all the lights sort themselves out (give it a few minutes),...

Barry, thanks for the quick and detailed response. I tried this, and I still have the same 3 LEDs lit (Wi-Fi, PWR, LAN) together without any blinking or change of status from the moment I apply power. The lights flicker very slightly in unison, but do not blink (on/off) at any point.

I have connected the WIU to the TIU using the same USB-serial adapter cable that I used to upgrade my TIU.

For the purposes of isolating the USB-serial cable or TIU... if I power-on the WIU without the USB-serial cable adapter connected, and the MTH/Home switch in the MTH position, should I get the  MTH_DCS-XXXX network? What state would the LEDs be in with only a power connection?

Many thanks again.

Bob

PS (edit): also, hitting the reset detent has no effect on the LEDs, or anything else that I can tell.

Howard, you are not the only who has been unable to connect to Rev. L using Parallels. I ended up reactivating an antique Win XP box and keep it under the layout for upgrades.

Matt FWIW the early Macbooks did not come with Bootcamp installed. It was on the install disk but you had to deliberately install it before you formated the disk. Once you install Parallels then your Windows OS you are stuck unless you want to reformat and start over. I won't make that same mistake with my next Mac device. 

Pete

Thank you for at least convincing me that I wasn't crazy.  The good thing is that once I got things up and running, the Wifi APP on my iPad is working really well.

Bob,

if I power-on the WIU without the USB-serial cable adapter connected, and the MTH/Home switch in the MTH position, should I get the  MTH_DCS-XXXX network?

No, you should not, as I stated above.

What state would the LEDs be in with only a power connection?

All you should have lit is power and WiFi. However, it's a moot question since without a TIU connected the app will not respond except to state that it cannot locate any TIUs.

Further, unless you connect a TIU to the WIU, there's no point in discussing what LEDs the WIU should or should not have light up. Without a TIU connected, it's an invalid configuration and there's nothing to discuss.

Barry,

Thanks. I have connected the TIU to the WIU using a USB-to-serial adapter cable, using steps outlined in DCS Users Guide and your post above -- same 3 LEDs lit, and no MTH_DCS-XXXX network visible. The TIU light (on the WIU) never illuminates.

I'm weighing whether to locate a different USB-to-serial cable, or to replace the WIU.

Thanks again.

Bob

Bob,

Please confirm that the WIU is in MTH mode.

The serial to USB cable should have nothing to do with the MTH network being available..

Please confirm that the WIU is in MTH mode.

Confirmed. I tried it one more time, same results. I recorded a short video (embedded below) as a demonstration of the steps and lack of effect.

The serial to USB cable should have nothing to do with the MTH network being available.

Agreed, thanks again for the advice. If you see anything in the video I'm missing, please let me know.

Bob

Bob,

Your video, unfortunately, leads me to the conclusion that the  WIU is most certainly not behaving as it should. The lights coming on steady all at once indicates that the WIU is not going through its normal initialization cycle.

Although it's a long shot, the only thing that I can suggest is that, with the unit powered on, press and hold the reset button in for 15 seconds and then release it. Then, remove and reinsert the power plug in the WIU's power port.

If the WIU's behavior does not improve, return it as defective.

Thanks once again, Barry. Not great news of course, but I am relieved to have your expert 2d opinion as confirmation.

Although it's a long shot, the only thing that I can suggest is that, with the unit powered on, press and hold the reset button in for 15 seconds and then release it. Then, remove and reinsert the power plug in the WIU's power port.

Tried it, no dice. No change whatsoever to LEDs either during or after reset. The unit still will not initialize.

If the WIU's behavior does not improve, return it as defective.

Fortunately, I bought it from a well-regarded vendor (also forum sponsor), so I am optimistic they will replace the unit. I'll post final results here.

Thanks again both for sharing your knowledge through your terrific DCS book and this forum!

Bob

Update: I replaced my WIU very quickly (<1 week) through USPS; thankfully I'd purchased through forum sponsor Legacy Station who were very understanding, supportive, and fast to replace the faulty unit.

Once in-hand, setting up the WIU only took a few minutes, maybe five minutes total including configuring it with my existing home router and getting the app on my iPhone. Really slick, and kids just loved it. Now that I have a functioning WIU in-hand, proper USB-serial adapter cable, and DCS 5.0-upgraded TIU and remote -- everything works great together. It's extremely responsive.

Thanks again to Barry for the troubleshooting help and Legacy Station for the great service and support.

Bob

Bob,

Legacy Station for the great service and support.

Legacy Station is a great store and Brian Sheffield is a good friend. Further, if you don't have a copy of the DCS Companion 3rd Edition, you can purchase a copy directly from Legacy Station.