DCS cost vs. benifit

Yes it is worth it. I thought the same way you did on this when DCS first came out. I had just started my business and the money to add a new command system just wasn't there. I got a surprise when a fellow forum member sent me a certificate for a free one the day before Christmas that year. OK so you are not into crew talk, no big deal some of it gets old anyway. However the finer controls on each locomotive makes it all worthwhile. Do you want to increase/decrease your speed by 1SMPH increments-you can do that with DCS. Is the bell too loud, you can change the volume of the bell, whistle, engine sounds and yes the crew talk from the remote. How about the chuff rate you can increase it or decrease. How about the Doppler effect for your diesels---only accessed through the DCS system. Running two engines on the same track-you can set the speed on each or set them all for the same speed. With addition of the AIU you can run the switch and accessories as well all from your remote. You can use the Variable track setting to run conventional engines with your remote-it even has Proto 1 settings if you have some of the old technology.

The bottom line is your only getting 40% of the use and fun out of your MTH engines--by all means buy it.

Scott Smith

The ALL feature is the best thing since Apple Pie. I can run 9 trains on the 3 main lines of my layout and never have to be concerned about a disaster happening.

   Bill T.

Change smoke intensity, push the labor button and sound gets deeper and smoke intensifies, I really use the the volume control for individual sounds, bell, whistle, chuff, crew talk, passenger train announcements,three choices of ditch lights, and the one I use to control four trains on my pike," the ALL button" all operating trains do the same thing, and you know what my track is like. You can also pre-program your trains to run by themselves speed, direction, smoke on/off, bell, whistle anything you can do can be recorded and saved,, play music through the engine, Built in microphone, lashups, And then like Scott said, AIU controls all switches and accessory's  then you can make routes  and set scenes. where the train runs, switches are moved, accessory's activated and you can sit back and have a cup of coffee while everything runs.  In fact the AIU can even turn on fthe coffee pot. SET your locomotive acceleration and deceleration rate, or its top speed. I have a DVD you can Borrow ill bring it with me. I don't know how much of this Legacy can do or what you can do now. And I probably forgot some stuff. I use mostly the engine operating features, Whistle, bell, speed, direction and turnout control.

Clem    

I bought DCS not long after it came out. Ran great for years and years. New layout - the remote shows "10s" for track signal yet it responds like it has NO signal. Check track, stuck horns, etc. Control is fine and the trains ran fine but response from the system was terrible. Tried filters, fiber pins, rewired the layout 3 times, spent over list price to get a new TIU and remote, tried light bulbs, etc. NOTHING worked to get it to function. My layout is a 4x8 with 3 ovals and 3 sidings. Nothing fancy and DCS doesn't work on it. Go figure, my old layout was 7x12 and it functioned beautifully. Did nothing different on the new layout, just smaller. 

I'd be hesitant to spend the money to try it again. I still have my TIU and remote and use it on the club layout. I really like the system when it works but I will say and many here will say that it takes a LOT of patience at times to get it to function properly and can be difficult to get to function properly, if at all. 

SJC,

On those 3 ovals, did you cut the center rail on each loop across from the feedpoint?  Seems like even with no blocks, the DCS signal doesn't like banging into itself as it travels on the center rail.

Just a thought!

Ed

And that's not all! The little chocolate finger print folks can make their own announcements with the Protocast feature and have the sound come out the speakers in the engine. (Dad may want to invest in some earplugs prior to demonstrating this feature to the little ones.)

When they all go to bed, you can hook it up to your ipod and listen to your favorite versions of Yogi Yorgenson's 'I Yust Go Nuts At Christmas', 'Yingle Bells', or 'Who Hid The Halibut On The Poop Deck?'  

Been there, done that. No change. Best move I did was walk into my LHS and say give me 3 MTH Z Controllers and run conventional!

No.  My experience was very much like SJC's.

George

And multiple multi unit fun Middle of video a 5 engine west bound.Lots of smoke...your eyes might water

John, I am half Legacy/TMCC and DCS.  Each deserves to be run on its companion system.  Your loops are big enough to run multiple trains on each.  I run two Legacy on one loop and two DCS on the other.  With cruise control I can let them run, it works out great.  By mixing multiple brands you get more varied engine sounds, especially the chuff.  By having both systems you can get the best of both.  MTH also makes a lot of great smaller steam engines, which I know I have sold you on.

Dan

Agree Dan,

John, having both systems opens up a whole new world as MTH has some great engine offerings including European.  Great stuff. I would go for adding DCS.

see you Saturday.

Dave Smith

J Daddy,

    It took me years to add Legacy to my DCS layout, don't make the same mistake I did.  Run them both, the advantages are fantastic, you may even want to purchase a Z4K Transformer, and add the side receiver to enjoy all the running options of DCS.  Having both Legacy and DCS IMO is the best way to run a layout, especially a larger layout like yours.  Remember also to purchase Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion book, it's a great educational tool, I also recommend the OGR Video Guide to DCS it is a great visual learning guide.  

Go for it John you will not be sorry having both systems.

PCRR/Dave

I still have my original TIU and Remote. Best investment I ever made for controlling and updating MTH Proto-2 and Proto-3 locomotives. As for operating, the club invested in multiple TIUs and a couple of remotes for guest operators; members bring their own remotes. It coexists with TMCC/Legacy and we have a grand old command-control time running multiple trains, sometimes even in opposite directions on the same track. You can't do that easily in conventional operating mode. We've also had very young children operate trains on the layout as they seem to adapt very well to the system.

As to complexity, I'd rate DCS as a mid point between setting up TMCC/Legacy (one wire connected to layout common) and a large-layout DCC configuration (more careful handling of feed drops).

Despite the expense, I'd recommend having both systems if you want the most options for motive power (Lionel licenses TMCC to Atlas and some locomotives are better suited to being upgraded to TMCC rather than DCS).

More benefit than getting another engine.

J Daddy, I really like MTH trains and with DCS they are amazing.  That being said, I found the wiring requirements and sensitivity to switches, motors, and older tmcc engines a bit frustrating when it came to signal strength.  I have a small to medium layout and I had to add block sections, star wire, and be aware of what engines were running to get it to really perform. I am glad I took the time to work through the issues, but I know you have a big layout that may or may not be ready to accept DCS.   Be ready for work, or find someone that would bring a rev l dcs over to test it before you buy.  That way you see if you want to invest the time, because the money is not much compared to your effort to get it to run well.

John, Just BUY it, but don't forget Barry's book.

Uhh... I think you're exuding a tad too much confidence, any glitch in one and you have that disaster you aren't concerned about.

So for another 250.00 what will I be able to do?

If you already have a layout that is wired as a buss system you will get to do a lot.

First you will get to rewire your whole layout. DCS does not like to run on a buss system.

You may be able to get it to work (I did) after a month of frustration, an ample supply of curse words, and turning off the two way messaging. Otherwise you will get a constant CHECK TRACK message. This message blocks any other commands from being sent to the engines.

Setting up DCS is the same as setting up a computer network as it uses two way communications. This will require the star wiring with cut blocks to insulate the signal. On a smaller layout this is not a problem. On mine it was not an option I was willing or able to undertake.

I have both systems the Lionel Cab1 and MTH DCS and much prefer the Lionel. All you need to do is hook up one wire and play with trains not with the system to make them work.

If you are in the planning stages of a layout wire now for the DCS system and it should work fine.

If you already have a layout with buss wiring you need to ask yourself is it worth the work of cutting track and rewiring.

In hindsight I would not have installed it

We've gotten DCS running on a bus layout really well for our modular layout with buss wiring.  The stumbling block is for some reason when we connect the Legacy as well, it kills the DCS signal! 

I also ran my DCS "buss-wired" layout for years without any signal problems.

After I installed the Legacy Lite system I started getting quirky, sporadic problems, so I removed the buss and wired in the "star-pattern".  I won't blame it on the Legacy Lite though because it could have been poor wiring connections.

All a moot point now that I've removed all the wiring and gone battery-powered R/C.

As a matter of fact...when I was removing the center rail, I found I had forgotten to put a pin in the center rail in a spot where most of my problems occurred (this just clicked as I was typing).

IMO there's nothing wrong with either DCS or TMCC/Legacy, they all work extremely well.  It all comes down to (1) whether or not you're getting out of it what you wanted, or (2) you're a brand loyalist.  The basic hookup and running of trains is fairly simple.

Do it!!! 

J Daddy, is there anyone near you that has DCS that could come over, wire it in?  You could test it out.

ROn

If I have it, it's worth it.  Rev L tiu bus wiring and 10's throughout the layout.  I have minor issues with my one lashup but my other engines run great.

J Daddy,

  John I do like the idea of a friend bringing their Rev L TIU to your layout, for test your layout, before you purchase the new DCS.   The test will give you some idea of how much reto-fitting might be required.  It is much easier to add Legacy to a correctly wired DCS Layout, than the other way around, however adding DCS to a buss wired Legacy layout, is possible.  You will not know how much work it will take, until you test your layout.  

PCRR/Dave

J Daddy,

      I do not own any MTH PS2 or PS3 engines but if I did I would buy the DCS system as like with Legacy engine owners that do not have a Legacy system I feel that they are missing out by running conventional. My club has both Legacy and DCS, I am 100% Legacy engines with a couple of real old MTH signal sounds engines that do not see a lot of rail time. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Hope you do not see the dreaded "Engine not on track" message.

JohnB