While not quite ready for prime time yet, my prediction is that dead rail (battery power/RC) is definitely in the future of O gauge, and most likely the not-too-distant future at that. It already is becoming something of a standard in G gauge, for rather obvious reasons in garden railway operations, and it's only a matter of time before reliable, long-lasting, easy-to-recharge batteries are here for O gauge.
"HONGZ" stands for HO scale, N scale, G scale, and Z scale.
Post your non-O scale stuff here!
Allan Miller posted:While not quite ready for prime time yet, my prediction is that dead rail (battery power/RC) is definitely in the future of O gauge, and most likely the not-too-distant future at that. It already is becoming something of a standard in G gauge, for rather obvious reasons in garden railway operations, and it's only a matter of time before reliable, long-lasting, easy-to-recharge batteries are here for O gauge.
I think you absolutely right. It may even be closer than we think. If MTH & Lionel aren't working on this already, I'd be surprised.
The pace of the changes in technology is breathtaking.
Aliquippa & Southern posted:Allan Miller posted:While not quite ready for prime time yet, my prediction is that dead rail (battery power/RC) is definitely in the future of O gauge, and most likely the not-too-distant future at that. It already is becoming something of a standard in G gauge, for rather obvious reasons in garden railway operations, and it's only a matter of time before reliable, long-lasting, easy-to-recharge batteries are here for O gauge.
I think you absolutely right. It may even be closer than we think. If MTH & Lionel aren't working on this already, I'd be surprised.
The pace of the changes in technology is breathtaking.
Apparently Lionel is "working on it".
The new battery technology and control systems are a game changer.
No THIRD RAIL needed! 
My latest effort is a battery powered LionChief Plus which was covered previously in the forum. It was not an overly difficult conversion and the loco runs exactly the same as the factory based AC track power version. Long term issues which need to be addressed are primarily in the area of battery recharging and safety.
The triple AAA batteries in my Lego dead rail trains are ready to go to Heaven, so I decided to buy rechargeable batteries.
Many battery rechargers will handle both AA and AAA, but finding rechargeable AAA batteries is a challenge. I finally found a Panasonic shop this morning that had them.
I bought this beauty for 55 cents at an open-air market yesterday. To my surprise, it worked after I installed batteries. But my real surprise is that it is HO. It does not have a remote control--you have to turn on the switch. But it runs great on my HO tracks.
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Vincent Massi posted:The triple AAA batteries in my Lego dead rail trains are ready to go to Heaven, so I decided to buy rechargeable batteries.
Many battery rechargers will handle both AA and AAA, but finding rechargeable AAA batteries is a challenge. I finally found a Panasonic shop this morning that had them.
Vinny - not sure if these are what you're looking for, but Amazon appears to have a slew of them.
Allen,
Wouldn't carrying an on-board battery create a rather large weight penalty, i.e. less power available for pulling cars?
tncentrr posted:Allen,
Wouldn't carrying an on-board battery create a rather large weight penalty, i.e. less power available for pulling cars?
Yes. It does add traction to the loco, though. However, in the smaller remote-controlled dead rail trains, the battery is often placed inside the tender.
As a trade-off, the loss of interference from grime on the track makes dead rail locos more reliable.
tncentrr posted:Allen,
Wouldn't carrying an on-board battery create a rather large weight penalty, i.e. less power available for pulling cars?
Yes, but that could be readily off-set by simply making a more powerful motor.
The 9.6v 2000Mah NiMh battery(s) I use weigh 8oz and give 2-2.5hrs run time. The onboard receiver weighs 1.7grams, other components...thrown in an once or 2.
I don't know how much a PS2/3 or TMCC system weighs, but the difference between them and BPRC is negligible.
The only real issue is finding a battery that will fit in the space you have, As Bob Walker has done, you can even roll your own battery packs to fit around motors, flywheels, shafts.
I put all my batteries in the tender on steamers and inside the body on diesels between the motors. Smallest engines I have are a RK Imperial USRA 0-6-0, RK NW2, and RK and a Weaver RS3 and all were easy installs, everything else that's bigger has more than enough room.
I have found the 9.6v NiMn, 11.1v LiPo, and 12v NiMh batteries work fine.
Vincent Massi posted:One article had discussed the problem of recharging the batteries, ...
why not just power the track so the batteries can be recharging while you run the train...
...wait a second... never mind.
Allan Miller posted:While not quite ready for prime time yet, my prediction is that dead rail (battery power/RC) is definitely in the future of O gauge, and most likely the not-too-distant future at that. It already is becoming something of a standard in G gauge, for rather obvious reasons in garden railway operations, and it's only a matter of time before reliable, long-lasting, easy-to-recharge batteries are here for O gauge.
Battery-powered RC offered by Lionel, MTH, Atlas or Sunset would entice me to buy new locomotives more so than costly features that I don't require or use. It might also be the incentive for me to build yet another layout - with 2-rail track - and no under-table wiring. It's hard to believe that 3-rail O gauge trains could be become obsolete but progress marches on. I think BPRC trains by the O gauge manufacturers would be an exciting development.
MELGAR
Battery powered locos are a currently available technical reality. I have converted a number of OGauge locos (including LC+) to BP and they all run beautifully. However, any reasonable expectation of wide acceptance of this concept must take into consideration of how drastically it departs from either conventional or TMCC. On the other hand, I have to be careful in my concern because the same alarm bells rang when bluetooth control burst upon the scene and now it is everywhere. So, who knows?
I'd welcome it. It's really kind of strange that it's not more prevalent.
I’ve been saying for years that MTH and Lionel need to get out of the electronic end of the business and use existing technology, either plug and play systems already available or components that are readily available and easy to install.
After 5 years of using DCS and TMCC I got tired of the problems I was having and having to rely on these forums to get my trains to run. Almost 600 pages of tech manuals and still when I look at the forum almost half of the topics on the first page are from folks who can’t get their trains running like they want.
The components I use in BPRC are (currently) readily available, easy to install, and less costly. Sure I’ve had to ask questions, but not because my trains would not run but because I wanted to see what they would do if I changed the settings of the receiver. Didn’t have to do it, just wanted to experiment.
All my equipment is/was 3-Rail, all I did was remove the center rollers on engines and passenger cars. When I started using BPRC I kept my 3 rail track, then eventually removed the center rail and finally replaced it all with code 148 2-rail track.
I suppose I could replace the 3-rail wheels on my rolling stock with 2-rail but I see no point in it at present.
If manufacturers start offering engines that will accept a variety of Plug an Play systems then I’m sure more people will give it a try.
I had some nice battery powered remote control cars as a kid in the 1980's. Battery tech has come a long way since then. It seems like a no-brainer.
Just did a quick read of this thread and have a few questions for you guys - Noticed that several are using nicads still but aren't the lipo batteries replacing other types now? Used to fly RC years ago when nicads were the only option and performance was getting better each year. Now I gather that RC aircraft performance is exceptional in all aspects of flying.
We tried to get the Biltmore Estate to convert their large scale rr's (two of them) to battery power as it takes us almost 2 hours each morning to clean the 11 loops we have there. They rejected the idea.
I've acquired a beautiful USA Trains 1:29 scale Hudson and a Santa Fe Alco PA ABA that I'm curious about converting to battery. Starting from scratch, what would be the best approach to achieve good sound and smoke including command control. Would MTH PS3 be compatible with battery power or would it be unnecessary/redundant using something simpler? I would like to learn to use my iPhone to operate.
CSam, I use mainly NiMh batteries, have a few LiPos but no Nicad.
From what I've read, the LiPos have less internal resistance, giving you more power at startup. I believe it from what I've witnessed in my engines. A lot of folks will tell you NOT to use LiPos because of the fire hazard, but I haven't had any problems, of course I charge mine at approx .5Amp/hr and NO fast charging. That said, most of my 20 engines have NiMh batteries in them.
As far as sound and smoke...I haven't tried installing a smoke unit, so I can't say. As far as I know, currently the only sound available would be if you used the BlueRail Bluehorse board, unfortunately they're sold out but they are working on a new board with some exciting new features. Hopefully we'll see the new boards soon.
I took all my smoke units out long before I converted from DCS/TMCC to BPRC. Lost my sense of smell 15yrs ago and didn't care for the residue it left on the layout.
I do kind of miss the sound of the steam chuff and diesel rumble, and the occasional horn/bell/whistle, but all the other frills I can do without. Presently none of my engines have sound, but they make enough noise going around the layout. Good thing is I can hear my engines working and if something goes wrong I quickly notice it, like a derailment (almost always pilot error for not throwing a switch). Before I rebuilt my layout from using 1x2 lumber to using Mianne benchwork I had some slight grades and could hear the engine change sound as it started the climb. Now the layout is almost flat and I don't hear that sound anymore.
I still have zero wiring on my layout, but may wire up my Atlas turntable. I don't have to clean the track anymore to obtain continuity but I do clean it periodically because dust/dirt gets on the rails and then the wheels (maybe I need to clean house more often).
My last transmitter and receiver purchases I made were all from Micron Radio Control In the UK, batteries from Amazon or Ebay, charging jacks, chargers, on/off switch, LEDs from almost any convenient place. Micron delivers to the US pretty fast, usually within a week. I also have purchased items from RCS Australia, Tony Walsham makes a fine module that includes on/off switch, fuses, and charging jack, but I have also made my own using components from the parts box. You just have to have/draw a schematic so you can wire them correctly.
Bob Walker has helped me understand how some things needed to be wired, I think I still have the schematics I used on file.
I use the Deltang receivers, Rx65 and the new Rx66. Currently no sound and I don't know if Deltang will ever add sound. You can order the Rx from Micron with wires already attached so all you have to do is connect them (battery, motor, lights, charging jack, on/off switch). I've got some installs that look really clean and others that look like a rats nest.
I would recommend anyone who has a shelf queen engine to consider converting it to BPRC, if for nothing else to get it back on the layout, a good way to see for yourself how BPRC works. You'll need to be able to read some basic electronic schematics and do some wiring and soldering. If you can follow directions it should be fairly easy. Hey, if I can do it anybody can.
Do a search on this forum, I know I've listed the components needed a number of times.
Battery power in itself is not the answer for some of the operating problems that are constantly reported. The movement towards direct to loco wireless systems is the best overall technical solution and Lionel is already well on the way in this regard. The specific operating problems that battery power resolves are dirty track and uncooperative turnouts. You could assume that a battery powered direct to loco wireless setup is about as trouble free as you can currently get. Finally, if you are adept at wiring and like to try out new techniques, battery power is something to consider.
Vinnie, try Wal-mart. I've never had trouble finding rechargeable NiMH AAAs, which I use in my 4 DCS remotes
I went dead rail several years ago after growing tired of dealing with rail joints not conducting on my old ground level garden railway. I have since gone elevated but remain dead rail as I run live steam locomotives as well. They tend to leave the track oily/dirty. I have several locomotives converted to onboard battery power, but I do not put RC control, just an on/off/on DPDT toggle switch to give me a center off and foward/reverse control. I use either a 7.2 or 8.4 Nimh battery that also works in my RC cars. I get 3-5 hour run times normally. So far I have a Kalamazoo 4-4-0, Lionel Large Scale 0-4-0, Markin Maxi UP F7, LGB Eurovapor 0-6-2 and a LGB Euro trolley converted. An old Bachmann Big Hauler, the first red one that ran on track power awaits an Annie chassis and battery conversion. Its nice to just walk around to check for sticks and leaves on the rail, then set the train on its way. Many times I do this while waiting for steam to raise. Only wiring on my layout is for the building, street and turnout lights. My indoor overhead loop is wired for track power to test locomotives when I need to. Mike
Mike, that sounds like a good railroad. Also, your post presents a good case for dead rails.
overlandflyer posted:Vincent Massi posted:One article had discussed the problem of recharging the batteries, ...
why not just power the track so the batteries can be recharging while you run the train...
...wait a second... never mind.
Actually, I don't think you're off the mark. You set up a staging area with live tracks to charge the batteries. You'd have to install diodes into the locomotives (or tenders) to prevent current from leaking into the tracks from the equipment, but it's doable (at least in theory).
I got 10 years of track powered operation from my LGB track. But the last couple years I had to take up track, clean and recrimp rail joiners to restore smooth operation. Corrosion is the issue you face long term with track powered trains outdoors. This is where battery power comes in to play. How you control is up to the owner, Blue tooth, 2.4ghz RC or what I do, a simple DPDT toggle switch, giving me foward, center off, reverse control. I already had the common 6 and 7 cell Nimh batteries on hand for my RC cars. I found the voltage was just right for most all models to give a nice sedate speed, not to slow yet not to fast. Duration was good and recharge time is fast. When winter comes and my wife and I start running RC at the indoor car tracks, I remove a couple of the batteries to suppliment our ones that are not in the trains. Many live steam locos do not have insulated wheels, so going dead rail allows both to be on the railway at the same time. My batteries remain in the locomotives, each one has a charging port installed near the toggle switch. I just lay the engine on its side and plug it into the charger. Normal recharge time is 30-40min at the most. But with several engines charged up, I never run out of batteries and if I do, fire up one of the steamers!!
Many years ago, live steam and clockwork(wind up) trains were the norm in the garden, and indoors. This was very true in the UK and Europe, where as here in the USA most had electric power in their homes when toy trains became the rage. Not so much in the UK and Europe when toy trains really got going. Clockwork is the original dead rail system, along with tinplate live steam(which you can find in both O and gauge 1). Railway design was imporant, with the track leaving the station going slightly uphill to tame the initial surge of spring driven power, then slightly downhill as the train arrives at the next station to maximize the last bit of power from the spring. The number of turns of the key was very imporant. To little and the train stalls on the main line, to much as the train slams to a halt, throwing the passengers on the floor when it hits the trip on the track that stops the train at the station. It was very much an operation, much as we "operate" in the smaller scales. 
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