Dealing with real hobo train-hoppers today?

@Mannyrock posted:

Like most of us, I grew up watching movies that showed burly trainmen with clubs or axe handles, patrolling the railcars and beating up and throwing hobos off of the cars, sometimes to their deaths.

Just a curious thought.  How to the railroads deal with bums and hobos they find in their box cars today?

What "box cars"?

Unless they are licensed state or county law enforcement officers, they are not allowed to arrest and hold somebody until police arrive, or they could be hit with huge false imprisonment lawsuits.

Not true. Railroad Police are indeed "licensed" law enforcement officers and can arrest & detain any sort of offenders, including trespassers.

Most states have outlawed "citizen arrests" by regular citizens, except in instances of violent felonies which pose an immediate risk of death or serious bodily injury to others.  Simple trespass is not a violent felony.

Again, Railroad Police officers are NOT ""citizens" are are NOT making "citizen arrests". Also, trespassing on railroad property may not be a "violent felony", but the RR Police can still arrest you.

So, what do the "Railroad Dicks" do today?

They arrest trespassers in RR yards and thieves breaking into containers & trailers.

Mannyrock

Hi Hotwater,

Thanks very much for the information.

As I said, "UNLESS they are licensed state or county law enforcement officers, they are not allowed to arrest . . . "

Good to hear that they are licensed officers, and can round up these hobos.

Kind of like Montana having a separate "Livestock Agents" who are licensed law enforcement guys authorized to arrest and pursue for cattle theft.  Or the Port Authority Police who can arrest for hi-jacking, theft or other crimes at the ports.  :-)

Mannyrock

I'm sure that theft and vandalism are big problems, but does anyone actually try to hop a train to ride for any distance anymore?  Seems like the only options would be gondola cars, which would expose a rider to the weather.

There are trainhoppers on YouTube who seem to prefer riding on the ends of grain cars.

@Mallard4468 posted:

I'm sure that theft and vandalism are big problems, but does anyone actually try to hop a train to ride for any distance anymore?

Maybe not to ride it, but stopping a train in order the steal from containers or trailers is not uncommon. Then there is the crew change, when the train stops, and can be boarded or broken into (think El Paso, Texas).

Seems like the only options would be gondola cars, which would expose a rider to the weather.

Well cars and coal hoppers seem to make acceptible places to ride.

Hobo Shoestring, a YouTube channel from a hobo videographer, is pretty interesting. https://www.youtube.com/channe...4ygjMXmDVVcBZ1xOIh7g

@Duke Snyder 111019 posted:

Hobo Shoestring, a YouTube channel from a hobo videographer, is pretty interesting. https://www.youtube.com/channe...4ygjMXmDVVcBZ1xOIh7g

I watched several of Hobo Shoestring's video's. Interesting when he hop's a ride in one of the engines.

Time the railroads reintroduce the caboose to freight trains.  They would be referred to as Security Vans (not intended to use the Canadian term for caboose) manned with railroad police officers.  There is no way a crew can inspect their train while on the road considering the josh awful length of many trains today.  Unauthorized drones have also become another problem in that many are seen flying much too close to trains as well.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Time the railroads reintroduce the caboose to freight trains.  They would be referred to as Security Vans (not intended to use the Canadian term for caboose) manned with railroad police officers.

What good would THAT do on a 150 to 250 car freight train?

There is no way a crew can inspect their train while on the road considering the josh awful length of many trains today.

THAT is the reason there are all sorts of way-side equipment detectors (hotbox, dragging equipment, and high/wide) Avery 20 miles or so. Cabooses were eliminated for more than one reason many, MANY years ago, with the advent of way-side defect detectors.

Unauthorized drones have also become another problem in that many are seen flying much too close to trains as well.

Pretty sure THAT is an FAA problem.

I would think that druggies, grifters and drifters are not looking for long range transportation.  They are just moving on to the next available spot or campsite, when their drugs, food or opportunities for robbery or burglary play out.

For a good lesson on why being a hobo is a bad idea, take a look at Hobo Shoestrings left hand.

Jon

Also some good train hopping vids from Stobe the hobo if you haven't already checked them out.  Never met him, but it turns out he only lived a few miles from me and is buried just 2 miles down the street. RIP.

The only way to ride the NS tracks in my area is to do it illegally or apply to be a locomotive engineer. Last public excursions through Allentown, PA was Amtrak specials in Oct 2016, and 765 in Aug 2015. But, Amtrak wants to start service from Allentown to New York in the future. But. that will still leave the Allentown to Reading and Harrisburg section without passenger service. There will also be a Reading to Philadelphia Amtrak route. The ex-Reading NS freight line connects with Amtrak at Zoo interlocking so an Amtrak train could go from Reading to 30th St. Station.

Isn't train hopping pretty much a thing of the past now ?  My dad hopped locals in the 30's/40's to get home since his town was at a hillcrest, but considering diesel trains cruise past water/coal stops and go so much faster, I wonder really how much hopping goes on anymore.

I think train hopping for purpose isn't very popular anymore. People in my grandparents generation (I'm 30) apparently did it often to avoid paying fare for the street cars.

But I see it's a thing on Youtube. I like Stobe the Hobo. What he did was wrong, for sure. But I'm still entertained.

A few year back a bought a dvd from a young street vendor in new orleans.  He fancied himself a film maker.  His film/video was about his travels throughout the country on freight trains.  He is never going to Hollywood based on that dvd but there seemed to be a small diehard group that still ride the rails.

For some, the thrill and being illegal make the chance worth it to ride a train, but if caught they won't be very happy.

FWIW I think the idea of railroad dicks going around murdering hoboes back in the day is at best an extreme exaggeration, if not an outright myth. (Perhaps coming from the 1970's movie "Emperor of the North" - which actually dealt with a train conductor fighting the hoboes, not railroad police.) Railroad police were/are primarily there to prevent vandalism, robberies, and theft in yards, not so much patrolling moving trains looking for freeloaders to beat.

Part of the reason it was easier to jump a Depression-era train was because steam locomotives work differently than diesels. Steam takes much longer to get up to speed, so allowed much more time to jump on. That's why hobo camps were often in the area, but not right adjacent to, a rail yard. A half-mile or mile away from the yard, a freight would still be going slowly enough to jump on.

BTW in Minnesota, state law gives a railroad conductor the same power to arrest as a sheriff of the county the train is in.

@catnap posted:

There are trainhoppers on YouTube who seem to prefer riding on the ends of grain cars.

The also look for open box cars and "NOT OCCUPIED" locomotives.  Check out this You Tube - Warm dry ride to Pennsylvania/Maryland - YouTube

OK I'm putting on the movie Hobo's Christmas.

Until recently the trains would be stopped north of town (Harlingen, Tx) and all the cars searched for illegals.  Now since all one has to do to enter the country is get across the river, turn yourself in and get a plane ticket north why bother going to all the effort to hop the train.

Sorry if this seems political but this is just how it is down here.

I wasn’t a hobo, but from 1969 through 1974 in Montgomery West Virginia, I attended West Virginia Institute of Technology.  The C&O mainline split the town with the college on the south side and the business district on the north side.  I would hitch rides on the C&O to get from the east or west end of the town.  The “rides” I would usually catch were coal drags coming out of Handley, WV (eastbound), or empties returning to The Handley yard (westbound).  Both were going slow so jumping on and off was usually ok.  One time I caught a slow empty and to my surprise, its speed started to pick up and by the time I reached my jump off point, it was going too fast.  Rode that one all the way to Charleston, WV and had to hitchhike back to Montgomery.

Also, we loved going to the Handley Y for some great eating with the RR crews.  Several would recognize me as a “rider” and wag their fingers at me. Had a lot of great conversations with those guys.

Question, I've been watch hobo shoe string for sometime.  He videos and post his crimes on Youtube all the time.  Why isn't he arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and in jail by now?

@superwarp1 posted:

Question, I've been watch hobo shoe string for sometime.  He videos and post his crimes on Youtube all the time.  Why isn't he arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and in jail by now?

My question is, “How does a hobo afford a camera and have internet access and a youtube channel?”

There is always this scene from the movie "Into the Wild". I have always thought this was exaggerated because Train workers always seemed pretty chill to me.

@LLKJR posted:

My question is, “How does a hobo afford a camera and have internet access and a youtube channel?”

Why not?  Being a hobo doesn't mean you can't but he's not a hobo anyway.  A hobo is a migrant worker.  While there are still a small number of true hobos existing today, many are just riding the rails for various reasons.   There are several documentaries available on the topic, some for free on YouTube.

-Greg

@superwarp1 posted:

Question, I've been watch hobo shoe string for sometime.  He videos and post his crimes on Youtube all the time.  Why isn't he arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and in jail by now?

@LLKJR posted:

My question is, “How does a hobo afford a camera and have internet access and a youtube channel?”

I have wondered both these things myself haha

Hobo Shoestring has a paypal.me account and over 85,000 subscribers and over a million views. It would probably scare you how much money he raises. In the news we have a woman that was thought to being evicted if she didn't raise $2,000 in a gofundme acct. She raised over $200,000 in 24 hours.  So with his following, who knows...

Very entertaining videos.

If the rider is good, you never see them. And there are plenty of riders. Many of them are just as well-versed in railroad operations as railfans...after all, they must know if a train is going to the place they are traveling to.

When I am cut back from engineer to conductor, I usually go and hold the UPS train pool. Even with RR police actively checking the train at stops where work is performed, the smarter riders can avoid getting caught. I've literally had experiences where the RR police will brief with us, informing that the train is secure. Then we start to perform work, and as I'm pulling the cut by, I see a group of two riders under a trailer on a spine car.

And some of the people who work out here have hopped trains in the past; one retired engineer told me his "anecdote" about being kicked off a freight train in the 70s and was told "Only employees are allowed to ride freight trains" and his next line is "So I hired out". Another conductor out here was someone who liked to travel and led a nomadic life for several years before hiring out. They still hop to travel "out west" during their vacation time.

The attitude where I work is "They don't bother us, we don't bother them. Just don't touch anything".

Mackb4  ran hobos, illegal rail riders, out of cars to keep them from getting hurt.  What if one does in this sue-happy world?  Is this a case where a miscreant on a car gets hurt because mean old railroad moved the car suddenly,  taking up slack, and he sues railroad?

@colorado hirailer posted:

Mackb4  ran hobos, illegal rail riders, out of cars to keep them from getting hurt.  What if one does in this sue-happy world?  Is this a case where a miscreant on a car gets hurt because mean old railroad moved the car suddenly,  taking up slack, and he sues railroad?

Except,,,,,,,,,,,,,the person was TRESPASSING on private property!

@Hot Water posted:

Except,,,,,,,,,,,,,the person was TRESPASSING on private property!

UPDATE: this turned out to be false and an urban legend.

Haven't you heard about the burglar who sued for $500k because he was trapped in the garage of the house he broke into?

Mr. Dickson, upon regaining his freedom from the garage, filed a suit against the homeowner’s insurance company on the basis of his having suffered mental anguish during his unintended confinement. Incredibly, the jury determined that Mr. Dickson was to be paid $500,000 for his suffering.

I’d be real interested to hear how this one held up on appeal.

Edit: And with a simple internet search I found this 1998 “case” of the confined burglar was a fabrication, possibly created by groups pushing for tort reform.

https://www.law.northwestern.e...vardPublicPolicy.pdf

CW

@juniata guy posted:

I’d be real interested to hear how this one held up on appeal.

Edit: And with a simple internet search I found this 1998 “case” of the confined burglar was a fabrication, possibly created by groups pushing for tort reform.

https://www.law.northwestern.e...vardPublicPolicy.pdf

CW

You beat me to it...    This has been floating around for at least a decade.   My Sister In Law actually had this come up in one of her law classes.    

@TheRambles posted:

Haven't you heard about the burglar who sued for $500k because he was trapped in the garage of the house he broke into?

In the process of exiting a house he had just entered and burglarized, he found that his planned escape route through the garage was a dead end as the door opener would not function and he was unable to open the garage door. Turning back to re-enter the house, he found that the connecting door had locked behind him! He was forced to spend the next eight days with only a case of Pepsi and a bag of dry dog food.

Mr. Dickson, upon regaining his freedom from the garage, filed a suit against the homeowner’s insurance company on the basis of his having suffered mental anguish during his unintended confinement. Incredibly, the jury determined that Mr. Dickson was to be paid $500,000 for his suffering.

Source

Totally false stories. They were all fabrications.

@EscapeRocks posted:

Totally false stories. They were all fabrications.

Wow you're right. I will adjust my post. Torts class is actually where I first heard about the case. 

From the Morning Call:

This collection is a hoax. The only reason it's the least bit convincing is that we all know people routinely file outlandish lawsuits and some juries are stupid enough to reward them.

The urban legend Web site www.snopes.com has a good essay on the imaginary lawsuits, all of which it investigated and found to be false. I called Bucks County's prothonotary's office, which confirmed that it had no record of any cases involving Terrence Dickson, the dog-food-eating burglar

@Mannyrock posted:

Hi Hotwater,

Thanks very much for the information.

As I said, "UNLESS they are licensed state or county law enforcement officers, they are not allowed to arrest . . . "

Good to hear that they are licensed officers, and can round up these hobos.

Kind of like Montana having a separate "Livestock Agents" who are licensed law enforcement guys authorized to arrest and pursue for cattle theft.  Or the Port Authority Police who can arrest for hi-jacking, theft or other crimes at the ports.  :-)

Mannyrock

RR police know laws in the various states their jurisdiction [the RR] takes them.

So those that get beligerant to AMTRAK Police, their jurisdiction is C.O.N.U.S.