Deciding between LionChief and the conventional transformer starter sets

I'd say Lioncheif, because of what you said, the better features, and if you plan on getting (or already have) command, you both can run your engines together. You can also enjoy the trains more when you have the ability to walk around the track, and watch the trains roll by.

Hands down, the Lion Chief set. Much more of a value.

You ought to consider an MTH starter set, as well. The PS3 engines in those sets are also able to work with the full DCS system, as well as the remote that comes with the set.

Also a vote from me for LionChief. I would even venture to predict within five years Lionel will change to LC engines in all RTR starter sets leaving conventional control engines as special order items.

You have already listed quite a few reason to go with a remote control set such as Lion Chief. And as Barry said, you should also take a look at the MTH sets as well. They are both a good value, I think more so than the conventional sets. I think either one would be a good choice.

 

One added advantage to the MTH sets are the ability to upgrade to their full DCS control system and use the full features of the PS3 system that are already built in to the set's engine, and they will also run in conventional mode. I believe all PS3 sets have DCC capability as well. May be unlikely, but you are all set if that should ever come into play?

 

Of course the Lion Chief set will also run on a Legacy system still using it's own specific remote (and not the Legacy remote) and no added features will be available under Legacy, but I believe some of the Lion Chief sets are less expensive also. As for conventional operation, Lion Chief Plus will run in conventional, but Lion Chief will not.

 

 

Their is a switch on LionChief engines so they can be operated either with the remote or conventionally from a transformer.

 

Neal Jeter

For the Lionel decision, LionChief, hands down.  Between Lionel and MTH starter sets, it's a personal preference as to your favorite manufacturer.  

One of the reasons I got into O-Gauge was MTH's high quality starter sets.  My first MTH set was an Amtrak Sunset Limited Set with Protosound. If I was starting out in the hobby again I would go with an MTH starter set like the SD70ACe one.  It would be smart to buy something already command equipped to it will still be useful once you expand from the starter set.  I like how my Blue Comet starter set locomotive can be operated with DCS like my scale J1e Hudson.  LionChief seems good if you just want a train set for the Christmas but it seems like if you wanted to expand to command control it would become useless.  

While I applaud the direction that MTH took in regard to allowing the user to seamlessly grow into the full DCS system without loosing anything, I would suggest first trying the MTH starter set remote. The reason is that, if I recall correctly, the remote needs to be pointed at the reciever which is the terminal track section and NOT at the engine. While it may seem insignificant, the normal action for kids is to point at nothing or at the loco while pressing buttons. 

 

I'd go with LionChief.  Cheaper and more versatile than the transformer sets.  LionChief is compatible with conventional control layouts using transformers, and can be operated side by side with command control at fixed voltages,  should you later want full command control (TMCC/Legacy and/or DCS).  Some of the LionChief sets are quite a bit less expensive than Lionel's competitors' sets sparing you money for additional track, scenery, buildings, rolling stock, etc. that will increase the play value. In some cases you can purchase two LionChief sets for about the price of one more expensive (albeit nicer and command controlled) set from MTH.  That's particularly cool should you have more than one child playing with this gift. The two sets, if they're not identical models, can be operated independently, each with its own remote control on a single layout.  And this doesn't require the purchase of additional command control equipment (e.g., Legacy or DCS) that will equal the cost of the two LionChief sets.

I agree with Barry. MTH is the best choice for a starter(& up) set. It can be expanded, is EZ to use, and, IMHO, the best value. Few, if any problems with MTH transformers where as Lionel may be "hit or miss" Not a good experience at Christmas morning.

 

The Lionchief sets are nice starter sets if you just need one for the tree.  I know many people buying them will just use it for that.  My issue is if you actually get into the hobby and decide to invest in command control like Legacy or DCS you cannot run it with the actual Legacy remote.  I know $300+ is alot of money for a MTH starter set but in the long run if you decide to expand with more locomotives and DCS it makes more sense in the long run.  I wish Lionel had an equivalent starter set with Legacy for around $400 to compete with the MTH sets equipped with Protosound 3.0.  

"My issue is if you actually get into the hobby and decide to invest in command control like Legacy or DCS you cannot run it with the actual Legacy remote.  I know $300+ is alot of money for a MTH starter set but in the long run if you decide to expand with more locomotives and DCS it makes more sense in the long run."

 

Consider the original poster's question.  He's buying this set or sets for children.  Very few such children are going to wind up with command control.  For that matter, the vast majority of train set buyers are not going to spring for another $300 for Legacy or DCS.  For the $600 you'd spend on an MTH set and DCS, you could have two LionChief sets, a couple of switches, a bunch of extra track, some buildings and additional rolling stock.  Which would have more play value?  It seems to me clear it's the two LionChief sets for this particular audience. Perhaps if the recipient were 45 years old and had an interest in building a big layout, the MTH set might more sense.  Not for one's children or grandchildren in my view.

For a starter set for a child.  Lion Chief No question.   Definitely more bang for the buck!  

As long as you go for the LionChief Plus set, you have conventional and LC remote operation.

 

Just bought my son a Lionchief Polar Express for his birthday next month. 

 

If Lionel, go with Lionchief. The MTH sets are worth a look too. I would have went that way, but my boy wanted his own Berkshire!

Correct. LionChief plus you have the option LionChief alone just the remote will work. 

Agreed. Count me in the Lion Chief column.

LionChief Vs Convention starter set for a child: LionChief for sure.

Plenty or reasons:  conventional operation, multi-train with another LionChief OR DCS or Legacy.

The remote is more fon many, natural for kids, you can move around and follow the train, etc.

 

 

 

I didn't think there were any LionChief Plus RTR sets?  I thought only LionChief?  LionChief Plus for now I think is only engines only.

I think MTH probably offers a better starter set by the LC+ remote will likely be a bigger hit with a kid.

 

 

I think it will happen even sooner.  The goal of these starter sets is to get new people into the hobby -- people that do not want to spend top dollar.  So one of the biggest advantages to the LionChief sets is cost.  Like it or not, last Christmas, Amazon was selling both the Polar Express and the Penn Flyer LionChief sets for around $120.  The conventional sets never get down that low.  So not only is the LionChief better for play value for kids, it's also cheaper for the parents to justify the purchase.

 

I also think that the sooner the conventional starter sets go away, the less confusion for the parents.  Right now a parent says "I'm going to buy a Polar Express for Timmy this year."  So they go online and there is the G Gauge set, the conventional O gauge, the LionChief O gauge, and now this year the 10th anniversary LionChief O gauge.  Too many different configurations that confuse the average consumer. 

This past Thursday I posted this YT Video, and I show how to work the three control switches, on the bottom of the engine. If you already watched, Thank-you

If you have not yet watch, take a look...... Thanks 

I would say that LionChief Plus+, is the way to go for a starter set.

 

Today at Henning's Trains they were having the 75th Anniversary.  Lots of little kids in the 3-7 year range, pretty much all of them took to the LC remote with no issues at all, it was a natural for them.

I see why the Lionchief set would make more sense with young kids.  For just a basic layout it would be very useful.  I was just saying in the longterm the MTH set might make more sense if they want to expand from the set further down the road.  When I first got DCS it blew my mind how much more expanded the features of the locomotives I had.  DCS or Legacy would be a good investment a few years down the road if they are still interested in the hobby. Also MTH offers a set with a modern Diesel Locomotive (SD70Ace) that you can actually see on a daily basis too.  I think Lionel is missing out by not offering a starter set with a modern diesel Locomotive like a SD70Ace or ES44DC.  I know they have a set with a GP38 but those are really only used on local freights and in yards.  

Do any of you think Lionel will offer a LionChief upgrade/conversion kit? I pretty confident postwar engines could not be converted.

Steve

Yep. I think you are correct. Lion Chief only for the sets at this point.

As far as I know there are no LionChief Plus rtr sets offered right now. The LionChief rtr sets do not have the option of conventional control, though the remote will run on a track powered by a conventional transformer set at a constant voltage above 14v (actually have operated as low as constant 7v). As long as you use its dedicated remote all LionChief engines can run on any track configured with any command control system.

 

I run the MTH Remote Comander and both LionChief and LionChief + on my display.

While LionChief rtr engines do not have the capabilities of PS2 or PS3 engines included in the MTH rtr sets (no cruise or volume control with LC rtr  engines) I believe the play value for a child is equal if not superior because of the radio frequency remote with LC as compared to the line of sight Remote Commander offered with the MTH sets.

I could be wrong but I think that Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus require can motors.

 

Back in the 1980's and 1990's, when QSIndustries (QSI) electtronic reverse and sound systems were getting more sophisticated, some operators had trouble with interference generated by open-frame motors. Some motors were electronically "noisy" and others weren't.

 

It may be possible to convert postwar locomotives but I have a hunch that would be a big project.

I would like too see a postwar locomotive converted into Lioncheif. Who knows, it might be worth the effort!

I particularly like Landsteiner's answer because he stayed on point, and directly addressed the initial question.  Far too many times in this forum, the initial post gets lost, forgotten or ignored and subsequent posters address each other, and each other's commentary. Then the original poster is left to sort through a bunch of gobble-de-gook in an attempt to decipher all the rhetoric whilst looking for a simple answer to a simple question. 

If you're really looking for value, you really should be doing some due diligence and comparing the Lionel offerings to those offered by MTH. Feature-to-feature.  I own both and researched both extensively before buying anything.  Here is an excerpt from a post I uploaded in another thread that discusses the MTH Railking R-T-R SD70 Ace set: "Putting aside the Lionel versus MTH debate, this or any review on this type of set should point out that a R-T-R set that offers - a "near scale" locomotive with  this level of detail (many hand applied detail parts, figures - that are also hand painted, etc.) and the manufacturer's full complement of technical operation features, and that includes an abbreviated command control as well as being fully command control ready (all for around the price of a typical starter set from the competition) - is an amazing value proposition in comparison to the typical R-T-R set." 

 

I think a high-end comparison of Lionel to MTH is more apples-to-apples.  But when it comes to a R-T-R set comparison that considers getting as many features and bells and whistles as possible (plus the best smoke feature which kids (of all ages) love) and at similar purchase prices, I think there is really no contest.  Peter 

 

Lion chief vs conventional control Lionel rtr sets.  Both set come with everything you need to set up and run.  LC will require batteries but most everything does Christmas morning.

The conventional set has a transformer (40 watt).  The LC set has a wall wart (36 watt).  IMHO the transformer is better if you want to later expand. BUT, the LC set has better sounds and the wireless controller.  Both are great starter choices, both will be fun for your kids.

 

Please don't confuse the capabilities of the lion chief plus engine with what you get in a lion chief rtr set.

"MTH Railking R-T-R SD70 Ace set"

 

At, typically considerably more than twice the street price of the least expensive LionChief set, wouldn't you expect more features and higher quality?  Not exactly an apples to apples comparison, and not exactly what the original poster was asking about: a set for a child.

We have both setup on our 8 by 8 display layout and both get a lot of use by the kids. 

 

We we are selling more LionChief Plus engines to hobbyists that want to add a command control engine to an existing conventional layout for their grandkids. We have had several buy one engine for each child and away they go without adding anything to Grandpa's layout. Just run the power up on the ole ZW. I am hoping the RS-3s are available soon - we need more selection in LionChief Plus diesels. 

 

To Barry's point, we sell the MTH starter sets, at $50 off, 2:1 over the LionChief Plus starter sets at $100 off. People like the heft and quality of the MTH starter set diesels once they get one in their hands. 

Based on what I have seen, I don't think that is quite accurate.  Maybe loco to set but not set to set.

 

And I say that agreeing with you that LC+ is the better choice for a kid, most likely. 

All I can state is my own experience.  I went with a MTH starter set for my then 5 yr old son.  Full DCS features and a remote which has color coded or numbered buttons for the main features.  Nothing easier for a kid than to teach them to press the yellow button or press number 7.  

 

I've stated this before and I'll restate it again.  If you are buying a steam set all the lionel chief steamers are the same size.  At least the railking ones are sized in proportion to the prototype (a Berk is bigger than a Pacific, etc). 

 

Good luck with whatever you choose - I'm sure the kids will enjoy it.

 

--Greg

I would take the Plus over the Lionchief simply for ability to switch to conventional. I had a chance to test them at York, they are quite powerful pullers and will pull many cars to keep the kids and their giant trains going.

Chris I take offense to being called a MTH troll.  You sir, are the troll here.

 

--Greg