Delaware & Hudson PA set with cars

Purely comical. First its listed under O scale not S gauge. The cars have not evolved past silhouette people, another reason why Lionel is killing the brand, and last every set I have can barely pull a dummy B, A and 4 cars to save its life...

This is definitely a collectors shelf piece...

Comical for sure.  But I must say that I have a 6-49601 Missouri Pacific "Eagle" set with all the add-on cars, 11 pieces in all, and it runs all day at our shows with no problems.  Perhaps I am just got lucky with this one.

Dean

Dean - well noted. Mine are still in the box sealed. My Western and Northern Pacific sets are maxed out at 6 cars and the dummy B and A units.... could be the track I used... which was gargraves which has a rounded profile compared to other track brands.

Good question.  We run ours on original Flyer track.  

I have almost all the sets with their extra cars including the Texas Special set and none have been a problem except the Erie set and the 81 engines when the E units died and I had to get Dallee units since Lionel quit producing that early version.

I think Lionel just made this set and the new Southern Pacific Daylight set in a weird fashion.

I here you on the electronic E units... one derailment and the E unit was shot. The slow start was finished. The Erie, the earlier Day light SP, Wabash, B&O, NP, WP, C&O, UP, MP, and silver flash, just had unstable electronics... and to boot I never got them to perform well... so to this day they are mint sets in the box, sitting under my layout... I just don't know what to do with...

My B&O, C&O, UP, Wabash and Silver Flash PA's all held up quite well at train shows running on AM track.  The only one I had trouble with was the WP set and that was because of the metal couplers (which I didn't realize at the time) on the passenger cars shorting out the set as the coatings wore off.  Otherwise, even the WP PA's ran well.

I'll admit, my MP's are coffee grinders and I never used them at a show.

Rusty

I did like the separate sale B units with rail sounds. Have to admit it made me venture to back to 3 rail.

I have a complete D&H set. It is unboxed, on the layout, and a source of enjoyment. The set has a very Gilbert 'feel' (desirable for my purposes) that is probably accentuated by Lionel's choice of hue for the silver. The modern Legacy features are a big plus with me. My only quibble is that the blue and yellow on the passenger cars do not quite match the colors on the engines. No doubt about it that Lionel goofed with their production numbers for both the SP and D&H sets and did not make enough PA engine sets to go with the passenger cars. They double-goofed on the SPs and did not fill all of their pre-orders because many who already owned expanded sets of passenger cars just wanted the new Legacy ALCos.

I have had very good results with the more current PAs with the new 6-wheel drive truck design. These include complete versions of the Freedom train (a neat and novel set which always gets favorable comments when run on modular layouts in public), the Rio Grande set (which gets my vote for the prettiest Lionel Flyer PA set), and the Santa Fe 'freight scheme' (PAs only). I also have one of the original MPC-built B&O PA-PB-PA freight sets which runs well with its Gilbert style motors with the double wound fields. It pulls its freight set or the complete set of B&O passenger cars (from expanded the B&O Mikado match up) handily. I use my new(er) Rio Grandes to pull a full complement of WP cars.

Other than the WP PA-PB-PA set, I no longer own any of the 'coffee grinders' which were sold off to help pay for nice boxed Gilbert originals. I became beyond tired listening to the whir of precision machinery associated with those sets, and ... let's face it, a repro is a repro. There's still nothing quite like genuine New Haven Gilbert originals in cherry condition.

Bob

OK, I have to show my ignorance and ask, what do you mean by "coffee grinders"?  Is that a reference to a the noise a particular type of drive train makes?  If so which one(s)?

Dean

Dean Hall posted:

OK, I have to show my ignorance and ask, what do you mean by "coffee grinders"?  Is that a reference to a the noise a particular type of drive train makes?  If so which one(s)?

Dean

It means they're extremely noisy and run a little rough.  The MPC era PA's use a modified Gilbert design power truck. Even my repair guy couldn't guarantee replacement truck blocks would improve the operation.

Rusty

Ah, OK.  So those would be the early 80's production (SP, B&O and Erie) I suppose? 

As far as I know the only ALCO sets of Pa's that came with the original motor trucks were the first SP Daylight and the first offering of the B&O. That system never made it into the Erie's they had can motors but those PA's wouldn't pull the passenger cars until the Electronic Reverse Board was replaced. The motors weren't receiving enough current to run the engines. If you had seen one of the Erie's with the original gilbert style double wound fields and motors then someone swapped it out with either a SP Daylight or B&O unit and sold the can motor version.

Don 

That's good info to know.  I have never worked on any of the early ones so I didn't know.  I'll make a note of that as I am sure I will eventually get one in for repair someday.  By the way, the issue with the metal couplers, which sets came with those?

 Dean

The 81 engines are prone to E unit failure and 2 of the 3 of them had to be redone.  They look like Gilbert's but are not. The E Unit was built so it used separate coils of wires in the field to change direction.  No current E Unit can perform this action and Lionel hasn't had originals for years.  If you go to Port Lines Hobbies website and look at his repair clinics you will find one I did for the S Gaugian and him on this repair. 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The 81 engines are prone to E unit failure and 2 of the 3 of them had to be redone.  They look like Gilbert's but are not. The E Unit was built so it used separate coils of wires in the field to change direction.  No current E Unit can perform this action and Lionel hasn't had originals for years.  If you go to Port Lines Hobbies website and look at his repair clinics you will find one I did for the S Gaugian and him on this repair. 

Many, many moons ago (1993) I had the reversing unit circuit board fail in my L-AF B&O PA set (purchased brand new 12 years after it was built here in the USA). I was fortunate to find that my local Lionel dealer and service station, Brasseur's in Saginaw (who has always been a strong source of parts and kindly assistance), had an OEM replacement, which has been just fine ever since they performed the repair at no charge to me. This was back when USA-made Lionel parts were readily available and Lionel reimbursed their service stations under a warranty that had 'legs'. Ah, the good old days!! 

Bob

Bob Bubeck posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The 81 engines are prone to E unit failure and 2 of the 3 of them had to be redone.  They look like Gilbert's but are not. The E Unit was built so it used separate coils of wires in the field to change direction.  No current E Unit can perform this action and Lionel hasn't had originals for years.  If you go to Port Lines Hobbies website and look at his repair clinics you will find one I did for the S Gaugian and him on this repair. 

Many, many moons ago (1993) I had the reversing unit circuit board fail in my L-AF B&O PA set (purchased brand new 12 years after it was built here in the USA).

Bob

WOT???  According to the guys on the 3-rail side, made in the USA trains are infallible...

Rusty

Rusty...You and I will be long gone before toy trains will ever be made again in the USA by major firms. Remember every hobby shop in the 50s had repair guys for Lionel, Gilbert and other brands of trains. Those trains were not infallible but at least repairable by hobbyists then and now.    

Rusty Traque posted:

Bob Bubeck posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The 81 engines are prone to E unit failure and 2 of the 3 of them had to be redone.  They look like Gilbert's but are not. The E Unit was built so it used separate coils of wires in the field to change direction.  No current E Unit can perform this action and Lionel hasn't had originals for years.  If you go to Port Lines Hobbies website and look at his repair clinics you will find one I did for the S Gaugian and him on this repair. 

Many, many moons ago (1993) I had the reversing unit circuit board fail in my L-AF B&O PA set (purchased brand new 12 years after it was built here in the USA).

Bob

WOT???  According to the guys on the 3-rail side, made in the USA trains are infallible...

Rusty

Well, hardly infallible.   A mixed bag to be sure. It took Lionel over 33 years to put a knuckle coupler on the rolling stock that functions properly. However, my sample of the 6-48009 GP-7 (that's the 1991 redo of the Gilbert 371 in demonstrator colors) is nicely made and (surprise!) has a horizontal can motor drive that is as smooth as silk. You never know.

But, it was gratifying to have the trains made here in Michigan and have an abundant and truly extensive parts supply stored at the factory to affect repairs when needed. One had a strong connection with the trains, the people, Dick Kughn, and the company. The factory and Visitor Center tours were great fun. Not Flyer, but my five US-made Century Club 1 O gauge TMCC/RS engines have been bullet proof over a time span of 15 to 20 years. The last of CC 1 engines was a reissue of the 773, an example of which I own and got to see being made. I talked to the folks right on the factory floor while they were building them, including a conversation with a very nice woman winding the armatures, one of which she handed to me for inspection. Great memories!

Bob