I have been thinking about this for a good while.I have worked up enough to ask this question.Did steam locomotives such a 0-8-0 or a light 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2 pull a broke down passenger train?That was on the main line.I bet some of the railroad big wings had very red faces.All right let the fun start!!
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Yes I have read a story that a 2-8-0 was once used to pull the Carolina Special to the next station after the locomotive going to pull the train failed.
Railfan9 posted:Yes I have read a story that a 2-8-0 was once used to pull the Carolina Special to the next station after the locomotive going to pull the train failed.
If I was the engineer on that locomotive.I would be hard pressed not to laugh my head off.
I've been told that NYC 0-6-0 6894 (now at Whitewater Valley RR) pulled commuter trains on the Michigan Central.
seaboardm2 posted:I have been thinking about this for a good while.I have worked up enough to ask this question.Did steam locomotives such a 0-8-0 or a light 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2 pull a broke down passenger train?That was on the main line.I bet some of the railroad big wings had very red faces.All right let the fun start!!
What's there to be red faced about?
Railroads are a business, and if the took a steam locomotive to bail out a failing diesel or give a diesel a hand, so be it.
And steam helpers weren't uncommon in the transition era (from the pages of Trains magazines) :
There's also an image out there of the fairly brand-spankin' new CB&Q Twin Zephyr needing to be pulled out of Minneapolis by a Pacific, but I can't locate it right now.
Rusty
Stuff happens. No more so than every now and then, seeing a freight locomotive on point of an Amtrak train where their power went belly up en route these days.
Of course small power got out onto the main every now and then. Especially in the steam era, maintaining schedules was usually far more important than crew safety to a railroad...
Yes they did out of Louisville, Ky back in the day, during the transition between diesel and steam. I heard stories between family members and their other railroading friends of these happenings. I remember one story when a K&I 0-8-0 was dispatched toward Shelbyville, Ky to retrieve a Geep powered passenger trying to get in from Danville.
The problem was "No Fuel" 2 baggage cars and 2-3 coaches, or so the story was told.
They said it stalled and wouldn't restart in the middle of "Popelick Tressel".
I always wondered who the brave soul was that walked to the nearest phone, as that was before the radio in cab. If memory serves me, the next station was Buechel, Ky a few miles west. Then there was another story of the K&I going west w/0-8-0, toward Duncan Tunnel to gather up a returning slop freight, diesel power on the freight too!
My step dad told me about breaking a main rod on a light pacific sometime in the late forties, between New Albany and Princeton Ind. They dispatched a new pair of GP7's west to assist, that were in Huntingburg to drag the steam engine about 2/3 mile to the next siding.
Makes no difference, but I remember him saying that he and his front end crew, thought that the engine had derailed, that it was so violent.
He said that he heard later the old pacific was scrapped out, and wasn't repaired.
I would say if a person could get those rails to talk, they would be many a story they could tell........................
I would have to find it, to cite it exactly, but Lloyd Stegnar's(spelling?) book states that Union Pacific's first 2-8-2's were ORDERED FOR MOUNTAIN PASSENGER SERVICE. The original order of locomotives had too small of drivers, 57", or 63" IIRC, and were not able to run fast enough, in the flatter and straighter sections, and larger drivered locomotives were ordered, but the original intent was for passenger use.
Doug
Never accept somebody saying "That ain't prototype." 
I would say that managers and dispatchers probably adapted whatever was handy in a tight situation, like the stories above.
I saw some photos in Trains several years ago that showed multiple EMDs just managing to drag a heavy train upgrade somewhere in New York state. As the train progressed, the photographer captured a solitary SW yard switcher pushing on the last car for all it was worth. The little engine that could...............
The Burlington has two steamers "streamlined" to look like the Budd cars as backup to the early diesels.
I lived about 25 miles west of philly and saw many times a Pennsy 0-6-0 or 2-6-0 bring a string of reefers to the A&P warehouse which sat in the back of our house. This was in the mid fifties before the end of steam.
Did not pay much attention because I was only 10 years old but steam engines were something to see.
It wasn't passenger, and few would call the UP #844 small or mid size, but there was the incident, in 1996, on Archer Hill, if my memory serves me well, that a UP freight stalled when a diesel failed. The 844 was out and about after some maintenance, and happened to be the next train behind the stalled train, Steve Lee called the dispatcher over the radio and asked if he wanted them to swing out the 844's front coupler and do rear pusher duty. The (Young) dispatcher asked "Can you DO THAT, with a Steam Engine?" Steve's reply was along the lines of "UHH Yeah, how do you think we used to do it?"
End of the day, the 844 coupled on to the rear, leaned into it and pushed the diesels home.
If Hotwater stumbles into to this thread, I am sure that he can clarify any details that I got wrong, but the basics of the story are true,
Doug
A copy and paste from an April 2009 Classic Trains magazine forum thread on the 844 to the rescue story:
The incident at Archer Hill in Wyoming occurred on November 4, 1996. Train NPST had three diesel units (UP 9111, UP 9122 and UP 3222) pulling 136 cars at 11,620 tons. The rear unit, UP 3222, tripped a relay and could not recover its load and the train stalled at the base of Archer Hill.. UP 844 was returning from excursion trips in Missouri and Arkansas and was immediately behind the stalled train.
After checking their fuel and water, the UP 844 crew called the Omaha dispatcher and received permission to proceed past the red signal and to the rear of the freight. The EOT was removed from the freight, the steam locomotive coupled to the freight train and an air test was made. The code of UP 844's rear end device was given to the engineer of the freight so he would be able to monitor the rear end brake pressure and control the entire train's braking.
The UP 844 pushed on the rear and once the engineer in UP 9111 opened his throttle the train slowly began to move. The train gets up to about 20 mph and is moving well when it is discovered the crew of the freight is about to go dead and a dog catch crew is on the way. The train stopped on the Archer grade (.67% westbound), a new crew arrived and the process was repeated. Finally the crest of Archer Hill was reached, the UP 844 was cut off and the original EOT device replaced. The NPST proceeded downhill under its own power while the UP 844 and its train followed.
For a detailed narrative of the entire incident see:
"Distributed Power with a 1943 Alco"
by: Jack Wheelihan
Railfan & Railroad Magazine, March 1997, p. 50-53
A second incident is described in the October, 1998 and January, 1999 issues of TRAINS magazine.
UP 844 was on its annual shakedown run to LaSalle, CO on July 8, 1998, when an intermodal freight proceeding it with a single SD60M (UP 6155) died approaching Nunn, CO. The intermodal train was able to coast down grade into Nunn where the UP 844 could get around it and couple to the front of UP 6155 and pull the dead engine and train to LaSalle where replacement power was waiting.
"Steam Rescues Diesel"
TRAINS Magazine, October 1998, p.32-33
and
"When UP's 4-8-4 comes to the rescue"
TRAINS Magazine, January 1999, p.106-107
Rusty Traque posted:seaboardm2 posted:I have been thinking about this for a good while.I have worked up enough to ask this question.Did steam locomotives such a 0-8-0 or a light 2-8-0 or a 2-8-2 pull a broke down passenger train?That was on the main line.I bet some of the railroad big wings had very red faces.All right let the fun start!!
What's there to be red faced about?
Railroads are a business, and if the took a steam locomotive to bail out a failing diesel or give a diesel a hand, so be it.
And steam helpers weren't uncommon in the transition era (from the pages of Trains magazines) :
There's also an image out there of the fairly brand-spankin' new CB&Q Twin Zephyr needing to be pulled out of Minneapolis by a Pacific, but I can't locate it right now.
Rusty
If they talked about how the diesel could not go wrong.I its a sure bet some did. Btw these pictures I have seen them before hundreds of times.Keep in mind that I am nuts about trains.Even as a baby or so what my family tells me.I am talking about the smaller to mid size steamers.Steam that would be in a freight yard or a local train.
challenger3980 posted:A copy and paste from an April 2009 Classic Trains magazine forum thread on the 844 to the rescue story:
The incident at Archer Hill in Wyoming occurred on November 4, 1996. Train NPST had three diesel units (UP 9111, UP 9122 and UP 3222) pulling 136 cars at 11,620 tons. The rear unit, UP 3222, tripped a relay and could not recover its load and the train stalled at the base of Archer Hill.. UP 844 was returning from excursion trips in Missouri and Arkansas and was immediately behind the stalled train.
After checking their fuel and water, the UP 844 crew called the Omaha dispatcher and received permission to proceed past the red signal and to the rear of the freight. The EOT was removed from the freight, the steam locomotive coupled to the freight train and an air test was made. The code of UP 844's rear end device was given to the engineer of the freight so he would be able to monitor the rear end brake pressure and control the entire train's braking.
The UP 844 pushed on the rear and once the engineer in UP 9111 opened his throttle the train slowly began to move. The train gets up to about 20 mph and is moving well when it is discovered the crew of the freight is about to go dead and a dog catch crew is on the way. The train stopped on the Archer grade (.67% westbound), a new crew arrived and the process was repeated. Finally the crest of Archer Hill was reached, the UP 844 was cut off and the original EOT device replaced. The NPST proceeded downhill under its own power while the UP 844 and its train followed.
For a detailed narrative of the entire incident see:
"Distributed Power with a 1943 Alco"
by: Jack Wheelihan
Railfan & Railroad Magazine, March 1997, p. 50-53
A second incident is described in the October, 1998 and January, 1999 issues of TRAINS magazine.
UP 844 was on its annual shakedown run to LaSalle, CO on July 8, 1998, when an intermodal freight proceeding it with a single SD60M (UP 6155) died approaching Nunn, CO. The intermodal train was able to coast down grade into Nunn where the UP 844 could get around it and couple to the front of UP 6155 and pull the dead engine and train to LaSalle where replacement power was waiting.
"Steam Rescues Diesel"
TRAINS Magazine, October 1998, p.32-33
and
"When UP's 4-8-4 comes to the rescue"
TRAINS Magazine, January 1999, p.106-107
Ever hear of a show called trains unlimited on the history channel.They covered this on there show about steam locomotives.The of the show showed the northern helping the train down the tracks.It brought a smile to my face.Seeing that steam locomotive showing she still could do her thing.The last line of this show was."Justice was served for all the people who worked on the steam locomotive.And as I stated before it brought a smile to my face.
david1 posted:I lived about 25 miles west of philly and saw many times a Pennsy 0-6-0 or 2-6-0 bring a string of reefers to the A&P warehouse which sat in the back of our house. This was in the mid fifties before the end of steam.
Did not pay much attention because I was only 10 years old but steam engines were something to see.
Well at least you got to see some steam.They were gone by the time I came into this world.But I got to see some of the boxcars they pulled.Man the pictures I could have taken.
Dominic Mazoch posted:The Burlington has two steamers "streamlined" to look like the Budd cars as backup to the early diesels.
I have pictures of there steamers.I not sure all of there steam locomotive were cut up.So they may have a few still around.Just to be on the safe side here.When comes to things like this never say never.
Railfan9 posted:Yes I have read a story that a 2-8-0 was once used to pull the Carolina Special to the next station after the locomotive going to pull the train failed.
Nice to hear from fellow carolinan.Its also nice to know that are other guys around that like trains.
seaboardm2 posted:Railfan9 posted:Yes I have read a story that a 2-8-0 was once used to pull the Carolina Special to the next station after the locomotive going to pull the train failed.
Nice to hear from fellow carolinan.Its also nice to know that are other guys around that like trains.
Actually I'm an Ohioian, and learned this through Southern Railway Steam Trains Volume 1 by Curt Tillotson, Jr. He has a section of the first book dedicated to unusual steam power on passenger trains.
N&W 0-8-0s, 2-8-0s, and 4-8-0 all saw service inside and outside of the yards during their careers.
Ha! Never. They were too scared!
But on a serious note, at one time most railroads largest engines where an American 4-4-0.
Up until 1910 I don't think the Northern Pacific owned anything larger than a light 2-8-2 mikados, 4-6-0 Moguls, and a 2-6-4 light pacifics.
seaboardm2 posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:The Burlington has two steamers "streamlined" to look like the Budd cars as backup to the early diesels.
I have pictures of there steamers.I not sure all of there steam locomotive were cut up.So they may have a few still around.Just to be on the safe side here.When comes to things like this never say never.
Both 4000 and 4001 ended their carriers as normal unstreamlined locomotives. There was subtle differences in the skirting around the drivers and they were not streamlined at the same time in their carriers.
Aeolus 4000 (a.k.a. Big Alice the Goon) survives as a park loco in Lacrosse, Wisconsin.
Four other Burlington Hudsons also survive.
Rusty
In sort of a reverse version of this topic, it is recorded in Tom Tabor's 3-volume history of the Lackawanna that in 1948 a severe ice storm killed electric power in northern New Jersey. There is a photo and description of a 1600-series 4-8-4, Lackawanna's heaviest power, hauling a string of suburban electric MU's at Millburn station. What's more, the engine is running tender first! As someone mentioned earlier, real raliroaders knew how to use what was available.
Small steam locomotives with engine trucks (lead truck) ventured out on the main line continuously. A couple of quick examples: Rio Grande 2-8-0's acted as helpers along with L95 2-8-8-2's on the Moffat Tunnel line in the '30's. Southern Pacific 2-8-0's, 4-8-0's and 2-6-0's went all over the SP's secondary lines in a wide variety of services.
Regarding 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's, their lack of an engine truck made them unstable at any speed over, say, 20mph. This was possibly further aggravated by piston thrusts on each side of the locomotive. Despite that, they did venture forth on certain branchlines. On the Burlington Route, for example, USRA 0-6-0's and some rather ungainly 0-6-0's, derived from rebuilt 2-6-2's, regularly ventured out on the "Irish Mail" on the Geneva, IL branch, the "Alley Job" in Aurora, IL's industrial area, and up the West Chicago branch (about 10 miles). All worked out of the Eola freight yard on the east side of Aurora, IL.
There were lines and bridges that had such light load ratings that only gently-treading locomotives could travel on them. The Wabash 2-6-0s come to mind, and the GMD-1s on the Canadian prairie branch lines built with light rail. The GMDs had A1A trucks with EMD 567 prime movers.
The SP ran some light steam right up to the end of steam.
To Firewood's earlier point, never say never. In 1965, Mississippi R flooding inundated the Burlington's mainline in Savannah, IL. The Q employed it's remaining excursion steam locomotive, 2-8-2 #4960, to pull freight trains and the Twin Cities Zephyrs through the flooded trackage.
Locos without lead or trailing trucks (ie switchers, 0-4-0, 0-6-0, 0-8-0 etc) tended to not leave yards very often. They did not track well at spead without lead trucks. but never say never. Some tended to do transfer runs on some lines. 0-4-0s tended to be assigned to switch industrial districts rather than yards. PRR A5 and B&O C16 (dockside) are prime examples.
The one and only locomotive of the Palatine, Lake Zurich & Wauconda Railroad was an ex-C&NW 0-6-0. It was a failed passenger railroad. (1913-1924)
Rusty
As I read somewhere along the way, in some railway magazine perhaps and old issue of Trains ... C&O sold thirty 0-8-0 switchers ( only two years old ) to N&W. N&W gave them larger tenders and made the switchers road worthy ... hauling main line freights... or at least branch line freights.
The last time I ever saw a steam movement on my stretch of the Milwaukee Road that I lived near was on July 4, 1955. It was an 0-6-0 in front of an RS1 hauling a short passenger train from Fox Lake,IL to Chicago. Never saw another steam movement on that line from then to now. Odd-d
Unusual original question.
Rusty Traque posted
Rusty
There's a good example of a railroad using what was available that day, to do a job that needed to be done.
That photo was taken by Herb Sullivan in Cajon Pass, on a 2.2% ascending grade and 10 degree curve ("Sullivan's Curve") sometime between 1939 and 1946.
The two diesel powered passenger trains ( the Super Chief and El Capitan) on the transcontinental route in that era were powered by two EMC E-units totaling 3,600 to 4,000 horsepower, These units were not designed for mountain grades and could not make the speed required for the train's fast schedule and the E-units' required minimum continuous speed on the ascending grade from San Bernardino to Summit. Therefore, they always acquired a steam helper on the head end at San Bernardino. Most steam powered passenger trains did, too, to increase the speed to match the schedule.
Here, the E1A and E3B are assisted by the 1226, a 73 inch-drivered grand old lady of passenger steam engines, built in 1903 and still serving. The 1226 was bumped off of the best passenger trains by newer 4-6-2's in 1919, and then came the 4-8-2-s and 4-8-4's, and, finally, diesels. Each new group of engines bumped the earlier ones back one notch on the desirability scale. The 1226 found a home at San Bernardino and was reduced to assignments like the San Bernardino-Los Angeles-Redlands local passenger trains. She also hauled troop trains, local pick-up freights, and other assignments. On this day, she was under steam, well maintained and available for Train No.22, and so drew this helper assignment. Only after 6,000 horsepower F3's and Alco-GE PA1/PB1/s (and Number 90) took over the prime passenger assignments, did the helpers begin to disappear. Other engines used as Cajon passenger helpers included 2-10-2's and 2-8-2's, both the 45 mph versions, and, when nothing else was available, the 30 mph ones. Even 4-4-2 1468 occasionally helped.
The 1226 was fondly remembered as a free steamer that could really run fast by many steam Engineers with whom I worked.
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