Can anyone tell me if the Pennsy ever used E6's or K4's in freight service? I've seen film of an E6 being used as a switcher in the 50's and am curious if either pulled freights.
Thanks in advance.
-Greg
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I would guess it was not common, but when you need and engine, you need a engine. Be it in modern times or the steam era. Probably more common toward the end of the steam era as the trains the passenger engines pulled faded away, or after the E6 got bumped from passenger duties by the K class. I would be curious if any of the NYC Hudsons ever got stuck on freight duties toward the end of their lives. AD
I'd have to see if I could track down where I saw it, but I have seen at least one picture of a NYC Hudson in freight service. Where ever I saw it, the accompanying text said that it was common for them to have a run or two in local freight service after a rebuild.
@naresar posted:I'd have to see if I could track down where I saw it, but I have seen at least one picture of a NYC Hudson in freight service. Where ever I saw it, the accompanying text said that it was common for them to have a run or two in local freight service after a rebuild.
Greg:
I recollect a photo of a K4 on a freight train in one of my Morning Sun PRR books. If memory serves, the photo was taken in New Jersey, possibly on the New York and Long Branch.
As Artful Dodger notes above, I imagine K4’s on freight would not have been a common practice.
Curt
Yes. K4's were used occasionally in freight service. There are several photos illustrating this.
I have never come across any info that an E6s was used in freight service. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.
I have seen a picture of an E6 with a freight, but I don’t recall where I saw it.
John
Steam workhorse was the I1, Decapod.
It would be rare for the RR to assign an E6 or K4 to a freight. It probably did happen, especially toward the end of steam when there were not as many passenger trains and diesels were taking over. although it was the "Standard RR of world", about anything could happen on the PRR, it was a very large system.
Both the E6 and K4 with 80 inch drivers would be much slipperier than an I1, M1/M1a or L1. Also the tractive force on the real ones would be considerably less. I think it would be extremely rare if at all to see one on a road freight, especially an E6. It might be more likely to see one on a local smaller train. I have seen photos of E class locos on work trains too. I can't remember if E6 or earlier models.
@artfull dodger posted:I would be curious if any of the NYC Hudsons ever got stuck on freight duties toward the end of their lives. AD
They did indeed pull freights; the Hudsons were modern, powerful steam locos, so they were capable. This happened more toward the end of steam, of course. There are photos of double-headed J3's (as I recall) pulling a long train of loaded coal hoppers. I have photos in a book or two of NYC Hudsons on work trains (MOW/wreck/either?).
WWII probably added to this service.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a streamlined NYC J3a pulling a freight? This would probably only happened during WWII as the traffic was huge and the Dreyfuss (Century and ESE) still had their streamlining, or most of it. Like someone above said, when you need an engine you need an engine, and maybe a wartime Dreyfuss got pulled aside for running repairs, then assigned the next train out to get it back on the road. That would be quite a photo.
@artfull dodger posted:I would guess it was not common, but when you need and engine, you need a engine. Be it in modern times or the steam era. Probably more common toward the end of the steam era as the trains the passenger engines pulled faded away, or after the E6 got bumped from passenger duties by the K class. I would be curious if any of the NYC Hudsons ever got stuck on freight duties toward the end of their lives. AD
I can not speak for PRR practices, but I can speak of NYC practices,….as locomotives evolved, and the J class Hudsons were bumped from premier varnish, they continuously found themselves being bumped all the way down to local freights before retirement …..one service they excelled in after being bumped from lessor passenger trains was milk, mail & express, where the Hudsons still had the gallop to do the job, …..many Hudsons never saw the business end of a freight train, as they ended their careers on commuter trains …….
Pat
@D500 posted:They did indeed pull freights; the Hudsons were modern, powerful steam locos, so they were capable. This happened more toward the end of steam, of course. There are photos of double-headed J3's (as I recall) pulling a long train of loaded coal hoppers. I have photos in a book or two of NYC Hudsons on work trains (MOW/wreck/either?).
WWII probably added to this service.
Has anyone ever seen a photo of a streamlined NYC J3a pulling a freight? This would probably only happened during WWII as the traffic was huge and the Dreyfuss (Century and ESE) still had their streamlining, or most of it. Like someone above said, when you need an engine you need an engine, and maybe a wartime Dreyfuss got pulled aside for running repairs, then assigned the next train out to get it back on the road. That would be quite a photo.
Maybe during wartime traffic??…..more than likely not as they were extremely busy on passenger assignments, and there was a slew of locomotives available for freight ??…..not saying it couldn’t have happened……I’d say after the war more than likely not because it wasn’t long after the war the shrouding was ripped off for easier cost cutting servicing measures, and most Hudsons were still on passenger assignments, I’d I imagine all of the shrouds were long gone by the time even the mighty J3’s got pushed out of lessor passenger assignments…..sad end to the Corvette of the railroad world ……☹️
Pat
Pat, I love your description of the NYC Hudson as "the Corvette of the railroad world"! Maybe you have to be a car guy like me to appreciate it, but - in my opinion - you nailed it!
John
@Steam Crazy posted:Pat, I love your description of the NYC Hudson as "the Corvette of the railroad world"! Maybe you have to be a car guy like me to appreciate it, but - in my opinion - you nailed it!
John
Well, without muddying up the OP’s thread about the K4, the Central’s J class was their pride & joy with hundreds in service. the men who operated them, loved them. The men who serviced them were proud of them, they’ve often been described as the Central’s hot rod……built with that New York City to Chicago high speed service in mind,….looks & power, ….nobody else had both,….😉
Pat
Weren't the E6's used on the Delmarva line?
Jim, yes E6's were used on that branch.
@PRR Man posted:Yes. K4's were used occasionally in freight service. There are several photos illustrating this.
I have never come across any info that an E6s was used in freight service. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though.
I just came across the link below in which there is a link to a picture taken in Chicago in 1938 showing two K4s pulling a string of reefers:
https://www.tapatalk.com/group...pic.php?p=6876#p6876
This is even better news for me as I model the transition era. 
I appreciate everyone's insight.
-Greg
In the book "Set Up Running", the author mentions E6s being used for work train power. Being an "extra" movement, I suppose the idea was to get from "point a" to "point b" as quickly as possible... what better engine than an E6? 😊
Mark in Oregon
That is the photo I have seen many times showing the K4s in freight service. Pulling perishables makes more sense for a passenger locomotive than a drag freight.
As for the E6, with only 90 built and its limited ability to pull longer strings of even passenger cars, it would seem unlikely that it was used for freight service, but with anything railroad I prefer the "never say never" approach. The PRR had lots of freight dedicated power between the H8s,-10s, L1s, and I1s especially after electrification displaced quite a bit of prewar steam.
@Steam Crazy posted:I have seen a picture of an E6 with a freight, but I don’t recall where I saw it.
John
I just recently saw a video on FB, an ad for PRR steam movies. One sequence showed a E6 pulling a “fast freight” of mixed cars…
It was a production company advertising their videos…
Tom
@Strummer posted:In the book "Set Up Running", the author mentions E6s being used for work train power. Being an "extra" movement, I suppose the idea was to get from "point a" to "point b" as quickly as possible... what better engine than an E6? 😊
Mark in Oregon
Not really, i.e. "as quickly as possible" concerning a "wok train". Most "work train" consists had older equipment with speed restrictions on certain cars, especially if there was a derrick/wrecker in the train. Thus the speed capabilities of an E6 would have been of no consequence. It was just a handy locomotive available at the time.
I have a family photo dated Feb 16, 1920 from my grandfather who was a freight clerk w/ the PRR that shows PRR locomotive 4-4-2 #1429 that was used for freight hauling on a freight only branch line. I don't think it was an E-6, but rather an E-2 (4-4-2) light Atlantic. It was my understanding that once a PRR loco was past its "prime" that loco could be assigned to practically any needed duty - especially when the money was tight and/or maintenance was deferred.
Pretty much everything on Pennsy pulled freight at one time or another, even the T1s and the BP20s (downgraded to BF16Zs)...
