Did the Eastern Division change York soon enough?

I don't understand folks who bemoan the York Meet or TCA.   If it's not your cup of team don't come nor belong.  No sweat off my back.  As long as there's a York Meet I'll still go. 

The TCA (including the EdTCA) has and continues to do more for this hobby than the majority of those who criticize it.  I really don't know what more you can ask of them.   There's York twice a year, a Toy Train museum, kids club, divisions all across the county, annual conventions, cruises, and numerous other benefits for members.  Pretty darn good value for your dues (which if you take advantage of their partnership with Nationwide) makes membership and attending York pretty darn close to free.

If you ask me, it's time for those who criticize to shut up and step up and promote the hobby.  The TCA does plenty enough already.  End Rant.

-Greg

Greg Houser posted:

I don't understand folks who bemoan the York Meet or TCA.   If it's not your cup of team don't come nor belong.  No sweat off my back.  As long as there's a York Meet I'll still go. 

The TCA (including the EdTCA) has and continues to do more for this hobby than the majority of those who criticize it.  I really don't know what more you can ask of them.   There's York twice a year, a Toy Train museum, kids club, divisions all across the county, annual conventions, cruises, and numerous other benefits for members.  Pretty darn good value for your dues (which if you take advantage of their partnership with Nationwide) makes membership and attending York pretty darn close to free.

If you ask me, it's time for those who criticize to shut up and step up and promote the hobby.  The TCA does plenty enough already.  End Rant.

-Greg

 

Greg, They could make a Geico Commercial about these guys. The punch line would be, "If you are a train guy you **** and moan, thats what you do."

Pete  

Norton posted:

Greg Houser posted:

I don't understand folks who bemoan the York Meet or TCA.   If it's not your cup of team don't come nor belong.  No sweat off my back.  As long as there's a York Meet I'll still go. 

The TCA (including the EdTCA) has and continues to do more for this hobby than the majority of those who criticize it.  I really don't know what more you can ask of them.   There's York twice a year, a Toy Train museum, kids club, divisions all across the county, annual conventions, cruises, and numerous other benefits for members.  Pretty darn good value for your dues (which if you take advantage of their partnership with Nationwide) makes membership and attending York pretty darn close to free.

If you ask me, it's time for those who criticize to shut up and step up and promote the hobby.  The TCA does plenty enough already.  End Rant.

-Greg

 

Greg, They could make a Geico Commercial about these guys. The punch line would be, "If you are a train guy you **** and moan, thats what you do."

 

Pete  

PETE and others,

Some people aren't happy unless they are complaining,  And guess what?  Those people are happy all the time.

First let me say that the comments below are just my opinion; I don't want to get chastised.

Just a few observations:  

- Hindsight is 20/20 ( it wasn't soon enough, it was too soon, . . .)

- O scale trains is a brutally expensive hobby to be in for younger families while they struggle with rent, food, utilities, healthcare, kids, insurance, etc.

- For the younger culture; social media costs and hardware (phones, computers, tablets, palms, laptops, kindles, etc) are a much higher priority than $1000.00 engines.

- TCA stands for Train COLLECTORS Association, not Greenberg Public Train Show.

- Joe Hohmann summed it up nicely, the last generation of COLLECTORS were born in the late 40's to mid 50's.   That alone lowers the demand for the trains at York.  And that generation is dying off quickly and leaving mountains of trains behind to be added to the pile of trains available.

- It takes a lot of room to collect O scale trains or have a permanent layout.  Refer to item 2, people don't have the space/money to dedicate to large trains like they used to.

- If you attend York, just look around at the age of the attendees.  Rarely do you see people younger than 50 (excluding those who are working in the train show or tables).  I would estimate that the AVERAGE age of the attendees was easily over 65.  I didn't see anyone with a stroller, but I saw a lot of people with canes and scooters.

- If you attend a public train show the average age of attendee is much lower.  Its probably in the range of 20-25 yrs old, because of all the young families with kids just out for a entertainment day with the kids.  They may buy some popcorn or a $20 boxcar.  They are not your future to sustaining this hobby at its current level.  There is a saturation point, which I think was probably reached in the 1999 to 2002 timeframe.

I'm the only young 30-something year old in my group of friends who collects high-end model trains, and they all look at me like I'm crazy for it! This was my first York meet and I went alone, spent the day hanging and walking around with guys twice my age lol. Wouldn't trade it. Personally I've always been intrigued by model trains and it was in my nature to seek out the hobby. I think you either get the bug at a young age or you don't. I don't see anybody I know all of a sudden getting into the hobby had they not been interested ever before. That's why I think opening up to the public so families can bring their kids is the best way to "pass" the hobby down to a new generation. Not so much getting the young adult parents but their kids. Just my 2 cents! 

We, wife, daughter, and I, had a great time at York. I save some cash throughout the year to bring along. We only do October. We met some friends from Dayton OH & Rochester NY for dinner on Thursday & Friday. Made a purchase in every hall and we just enjoyed ourselves. Travel time is about 7 hours each way. Met some great guys at the hotel and tried to hook one up with my widowed sister-in-law. Yeah, it looked different than it did ten years ago when it was the first time, but it is what it is and will be what it will be. Enjoy it while you can, if you can!

aussteve posted:

 

- O scale trains is a brutally expensive hobby to be in for younger families while they struggle with rent, food, utilities, healthcare, kids, insurance, etc.

 

- It takes a lot of room to collect O scale trains or have a permanent layout.  Refer to item 2, people don't have the space/money to dedicate to large trains like they used to.

 

All of your points are good ones. I'd like to comment on two:

My wife and I, while raising 4 of our kids plus a foster child, were living paycheck to paycheck. It was only much later that I got "into" trains. My motivation was two-fold...I think a Christmas tree should have a village and trains running under it, and, I remember, personally, the last days of steam.

The room needed for a train hobby is not often mentioned. I've always collected "stuff", and I have very large collections of View Master reels (2,100), as well as 3-D "family" slides from the 1950s (4,800). However, each collection only takes up 2 dresser drawers. While the kids were growing up, there was no room for a layout since our old house has a cellar rather than a basement.

Form a pure analytical point of view, there are probably 100's of thousands of O gauge enthusiasts in the USA. Only a small percentage of  these hobbyists are TCA members.  A push to raise the attendance at York can help keep the meet prosperous but I believe that more needs to be done to get non-members and the general public to attend. The solution might be to transform  part of the event into a family event. That would mean a train ride or rides for the kids, maybe Lionel/MTH/Williams/Atlas  balloons, cotton candy and candy corn that are available at most carnivals. Also how about having ED York at the fairground in conjunction with a fall carnival/festival/market that would set up in the old race track area? Not saying that the ED should run a carnival just do a joint event. It might draw thousands more and there would be some spillover into the train meet. This would be a radical change but the ED needs solutions. The ED has done a great job with the York event but it looks like changing demographics and following the status quo may not support the expense of maintaining it.

Form a pure analytical point of view, there are probably 100's of thousands of O gauge enthusiasts in the USA.

On what do you base your estimate?

 That would mean a train ride or rides for the kids, maybe Lionel/MTH/Williams/Atlas  balloons, cotton candy and candy corn that are available at most carnivals. Also how about having ED York at the fairground in conjunction with a fall carnival/festival/market that would set up in the old race track area?

Just what we want, kids charged up on sugar, with sticky fingers, in a show full of antique and expensive modern trains.

Lets see how the planned changes work out.

Or the Eastern Division can go back to its roots. Drop the dealer halls, and go back to running a show for collectors.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Form a pure analytical point of view, there are probably 100's of thousands of O gauge enthusiasts in the USA. Only a small percentage of  these hobbyists are TCA members.  A push to raise the attendance at York can help keep the meet prosperous but I believe that more needs to be done to get non-members and the general public to attend. The solution might be to transform  part of the event into a family event. That would mean a train ride or rides for the kids, maybe Lionel/MTH/Williams/Atlas  balloons, cotton candy and candy corn that are available at most carnivals. Also how about having ED York at the fairground in conjunction with a fall carnival/festival/market that would set up in the old race track area? Not saying that the ED should run a carnival just do a joint event. It might draw thousands more and there would be some spillover into the train meet. This would be a radical change but the ED needs solutions. The ED has done a great job with the York event but it looks like changing demographics and following the status quo may not support the expense of maintaining it.

I fail to see how comparing the total number of enthusiasts in the whole country (even if that maybe is an accurate number) corresponds to how many new people may attend York.  For die-hard hobbyists, obviously some make the trip from very far.  I'm guessing we will be lucky to see anything outside of maybe 2 or 3 states away (ones within a few hours drive) as new casual attendees.

I hardly see a family from Texas (random far away place - nothing specific in my mind about Texas) saying, "Gee lets pack up the car and drive over 1000 miles over a few days for a weeks vacation to visit that train meet in York, Pennsylvania, after all, they just added a carnival to it, so that makes it more attractive to me!".

Do they have carnival rides at Cal-Stewart or the other meets tossed about in comparison regularly?  If not, I guess those organizations better look into this too, before the EDTCA takes your advice and beats them to the punch!

-Dave

 Turn York into a carnival. Ya,right. 

I'm with you C.W.

C W Burfle posted

Or the Eastern Division can go back to its roots. Drop the dealer halls, and go back to running a show for collectors.

This would constrict the hobby, not expand it. I understand that there was a time before MTH et al when there was low supply, high demand, and prices for Lionel. People "invested" in trains and admittedly some made lots of money. While it may seem attractive to make-believe that the last 30 years didn't happen, there just is no path back to the "good old days".

IMHO the most attractive draw to York IS the Dealer halls. I find it pitiful to see the same old men in the member halls @ York displaying the same old items year, after year, after year.

My totally unqualified $0.02

FWIW, I do agree with you that combining TCA with a Carnival would be Bizarre (pun intended).  

This would constrict the hobby, not expand it.

When did it become the responsibility of the York train show to expand "the hobby". And what is "the hobby" anyway? It's the "Train Collectors Association"
I understand that the current mission statement includes:  "to promote the growth and enjoyment of collecting and operating toy, model and scale trains". But that does not mean that every single thing a TCA division does has to include elements to satisfy that part of the mission statement.

There are plenty of public shows and meets for people who are interested in finding out about trains.

And why is it on the Eastern Division to provide the TCA with its primary recruitment tool? What are the other divisions doing to help the TCA get new members?

IMHO the most attractive draw to York IS the Dealer halls. I find it pitiful to see the same old men in the member halls @ York displaying the same old items year, after year, after year.

Then I assume you are likely to be an operator, as opposed to a collector. I think it's fine that the dealer halls are there for you to enjoy. IMHO, the dealer halls take nothing away from the member halls, or the collector centric aspects of the show.

And its hoped that the planned changes will not negatively impact those collector centric parts.
If things turn out well, there will be no need to consider dropping the dealer halls.

Dave45681 posted:

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Form a pure analytical point of view, there are probably 100's of thousands of O gauge enthusiasts in the USA. Only a small percentage of  these hobbyists are TCA members.  A push to raise the attendance at York can help keep the meet prosperous but I believe that more needs to be done to get non-members and the general public to attend. The solution might be to transform  part of the event into a family event. That would mean a train ride or rides for the kids, maybe Lionel/MTH/Williams/Atlas  balloons, cotton candy and candy corn that are available at most carnivals. Also how about having ED York at the fairground in conjunction with a fall carnival/festival/market that would set up in the old race track area? Not saying that the ED should run a carnival just do a joint event. It might draw thousands more and there would be some spillover into the train meet. This would be a radical change but the ED needs solutions. The ED has done a great job with the York event but it looks like changing demographics and following the status quo may not support the expense of maintaining it.

I fail to see how comparing the total number of enthusiasts in the whole country (even if that maybe is an accurate number) corresponds to how many new people may attend York.  For die-hard hobbyists, obviously some make the trip from very far.  I'm guessing we will be lucky to see anything outside of maybe 2 or 3 states away (ones within a few hours drive) as new casual attendees.

I hardly see a family from Texas (random far away place - nothing specific in my mind about Texas) saying, "Gee lets pack up the car and drive over 1000 miles over a few days for a weeks vacation to visit that train meet in York, Pennsylvania, after all, they just added a carnival to it, so that makes it more attractive to me!".

Do they have carnival rides at Cal-Stewart or the other meets tossed about in comparison regularly?  If not, I guess those organizations better look into this too, before the EDTCA takes your advice and beats them to the punch!

-Dave

 

Dave, Thank you for posting something that makes sense. Others, in La La Land, may not agree we us.

My first York........I spent just as much money with the bandit meets as I did in the actual show. The sellers were absolutely great outside in the car park and I met some again inside. Very friendly, very helpful and I never heard a wrong word. It seemed to me the sales were brisk and prices very fair. Everyone had the time to chat with me and give me free advice and help. It's these bandit meets that would get me back to York again.

Its to my understanding that the public are allowed in the bandit meets?

Airedale posted:

My first York........I spent just as much money with the bandit meets as I did in the actual show. The sellers were absolutely great outside in the car park and I met some again inside. Very friendly, very helpful and I never heard a wrong word. It seemed to me the sales were brisk and prices very fair. Everyone had the time to chat with me and give me free advice and help. It's these bandit meets that would get me back to York again.

Its to my understanding that the public are allowed in the bandit meets?

Correct.  Since you attended, you know there is not any kind of TCA badge or membership ID checking as you peruse the tables at the bandits. 

They have no association with the TCA, though some sellers do both the bandit meets and the TCA meet.  (at least a few stopped doing the bandits when the TCA meet went to 3 days, and others may have gone the other way, only doing bandits if they did not like the 3 day format for the main meet)

-Dave

After laboring though this long thread; if we get back to basics, the E.D. is taking the steps necessary to preserve the York event.  The E.D. is facing some big challenges in the coming years. The way I view the situation:   Costs to run such a large meet are sizable and have escalated over the years. The attendance and the number of dealers has declined.  Bottom line is that if we are to continue to enjoy this great event, changes are necessary and cannot be avoided.  The E.D. should be applauded for trying new things.  I will most likely return to York again in fall 2017 as a show of support for the E.D.  Its not an inexpensive trip for us by any means but at this point, we all have to contribute towards building attendance . By having an open meet perhaps attendance numbers can rise to the 15,000 mark again.  There are 100's of thousands of model train enthusiasts in the USA, perhaps over 1 million. York only needs 20,000 ( maybe 2%) to be profitable. Here are my suggestions

1. You have to advertise a bit. A billboard or two on Rt 30 might help.

2. Devote one building to HO only trains. HO is still the largest selling segment of the model train market. I dislike them but these enthusiasts do spend money and will help attendance.

3.  Do a large amount of social networking.  Does the E.D have enough of an online presence on Facebook, or twitter????

4. Ask all dealers to put the York info on their websites something like "see us at the largest train meet in the USA on Oct xx xxxx.at York, PA. and.........

5.  Do an email blast to all current and former TCA members.  Its inexpensive to do and you can reach thousands.

6. Data mine email address lists from all the train forums and from the dealer websites. Hit these people with an email as well. In most cases these lists can be provided at a small cost or donated

7.  Always think like a businessman first and a hobbyist second.

 I will most likely return to York again in fall 2017 as a show of support for the E.D. 

Let us know when you rejoin the TCA.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

 

1. You have to advertise a bit. A billboard or two on Rt 30 might help.

Isn't "Call for Price" code for "Ain't Cheap?"

Rusty

Dennis LaGrua posted:

7.  Always think like a businessman first and a hobbyist second.

Maybe Greenburg should buy the York franchise. No, wait...Greenburg already runs a York show in January, complete with lots of HO, and plenty of newspaper and direct mail advertising. 

Dennis LaGrua posted:

7.  Always think like a businessman first and a hobbyist second.

The pink Lionel "Girl Train" is an example of this. Also the Lionel 3-D camera, as well as fishing reels.

Joe Hohmann posted:

Dennis LaGrua posted:

7.  Always think like a businessman first and a hobbyist second.

Maybe Greenburg should buy the York franchise. No, wait...Greenburg already runs a York show in January, complete with lots of HO, and plenty of newspaper and direct mail advertising. 

The Greenberg show last weekend was so well attended, that I had to park 1/2 mile away just to get in. Yes that show is a business and they do include a few HO dealers ( maybe 10%) but no matter how you spin it; ticket revenue/attendance and sales of dealer tables ( and their sales) determine what makes the show possible. 

The Greenberg show is the last remaining large show in NJ  because the people that run it have made the right business moves. Its a public show. Ask the popcorn vendor at the front door why he keeps coming back.  

As for the York event, the ED holds the decisions on the direction that it takes, but one thing cannot be ignored is that change of all things is inevitable.  If you keep doing things the same way you cannot expect a different result.  There are still hundreds of thousands of model railroaders in the USA but the demographic of those that buy the trains is changing.  Reacting and positioning for that change is what will keep the train business going.  As for my comment "think like a business".  If you don't think like a business, then you go out of business.

The Greenberg show last weekend was so well attended, that I had to park 1/2 mile away just to get in.

Gee, is that what we TCA members want at the York show?
So many people that parking is difficult?
So many people that the halls become even more impassible than they were when the show was at it's peak?

Do we want the TCA to loose it's focus on collecting, and become another club for Model Railroaders?
If folks want to belong to a Model Railroading / Operating focused organization, why don't they look to the NMRA, or Toy Train Operating Society?

IMHO, what non-members want is of no importance.

Wife and I had a great time over those three days.  In fact we came home with cash to spare.  Would we do it again? Maybe, but we would fly in and rent a car.  The driving out and back to Iowa was trying, at least for us.  But we found stuff we wanted, met several people by surprise we  knew.

But York for us was a bucket list item we both wanted to experience. I envy those people who live a hop and skip  (say hour or so drive) away from fairgrounds, LUCKY!

My 2 cents.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

... The Greenberg show last weekend was so well attended, that I had to park 1/2 mile away just to get in. Yes that show is a business ...

Dennis, I think it's fair to say that the EDTCA has been open to change in recent years.  Perhaps even enough of a change that members are happy with the direction York is taking.  But the EDTCA will never please everyone -- nor should they try.

The LAST thing the EDTCA should do is turn York into a Greenberg show.  I was so turned off by Greenberg shows years ago, I haven't attended one in probably 10 years or so.  Quite frankly, I don't think I've missed a thing... and have no plans to start attending now either.

York is doing just fine with its recent changes... and we'll see how things go in 2017 with the "open to the public" days.  However, I'll need to rely on reports, since I'll only be there on Thursday, the "members only" day.  And that'll suit me just fine... just the way I like it.  

I get my daily exercise walking my dog throughout the year.  And at York, I typically walk 13,000+ steps in one day INSIDE the halls and between halls.  That certainly works for me.  I don't need to walk the extra half mile just to get into the halls from distant parking in order for me to feel that York is successful.  

David

C W Burfle posted:

Do we want the TCA to loose it's focus on collecting, and become another club for Model Railroaders?
If folks want to belong to a Model Railroading / Operating focused organization, why don't they look to the NMRA, or Toy Train Operating Society?

I think this is a very important question.  Does TCA want to remain a collector's based organization, or be an organization with focus on both collecting and operating?

NMRA, like TCA, is a fine organization, but it is not primarily geared at O gauge trains.  While TCA also includes S and Standard gauge, most collectors would be in the O gauge area.   Not much difference in the trains that we have, only difference is in what we do with them (collect and/or operate.)

If TCA also emphasized operating, then maybe more folks would join the organization.

Jim

If TCA also emphasized operating, then maybe more folks would join the organization.

The last few issues of the TCA Quarterly seemed to have operator centric articles.
What more should the organization do to entice operators? 

One thing is certain: I won't be driving 2 hours for another "Greenberg" type show. I also won't be paying TCA dues to help support it. Like it or not, the original "York Meet" was for "serious", like-minded toy train people to buy, sell, and trade among EACH OTHER. It was not a marketplace for dealers, nor was it geared to getting your neighbor into the hobby. 

Joe, your mouth is working faster than your brain. You will pay your TCA dues.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Joe Hohmann posted:

Dennis LaGrua posted:

7.  Always think like a businessman first and a hobbyist second.

Maybe Greenburg should buy the York franchise. No, wait...Greenburg already runs a York show in January, complete with lots of HO, and plenty of newspaper and direct mail advertising. 

The Greenberg show last weekend was so well attended, that I had to park 1/2 mile away just to get in. Yes that show is a business and they do include a few HO dealers ( maybe 10%) but no matter how you spin it; ticket revenue/attendance and sales of dealer tables ( and their sales) determine what makes the show possible. 

The Greenberg show is the last remaining large show in NJ  because the people that run it have made the right business moves. Its a public show. Ask the popcorn vendor at the front door why he keeps coming back...........

The Greenberg's Show Joe mentions that is held in January in the Orange Hall is most definitely not well attended, in spite of their usual advertising. There's no comparison between the Edison, NJ and York Greenberg's Show. The issue is whether advertising will be enough to bring train hobbyists to the Meet in York, no matter who is running it. 

York is not just a train show... its a "Man Venture".

A time to set aside work issues, screaming kids, and the daily grind, and enjoy...at least for me.

I enjoy the people, the visit to Strasburg, and Altoona. A step back in time to relive memories... for me relaxing.

To turn this into a family event would be devastating. I could not imagine dragging the family on a 9 hour drive from H*ll, and getting a look from the wife saying you spent what? And you need to be here... and you need to take the kids there... argh! Only to see the look on their faces and hear "do we have to go. I don't want to go!"

I can only feel for the vendors as a ton of uncontrollable kids are fingering their products and running up and down the halls screaming and yelling... Who is going to buy a post war Lionel train for a 6 year old? He is not going to take care of it.

As a seller of used products why would you go? You can put it all on the bay and not have to lug it back and forth, plus not worry about someone damaging it.

I like the pendulum analogy - as a trade show - opening to the public is the right thing to do - as a swap meet - maybe not the right thing to do.

As any adventure, hang on tight and we will see this April.

J Daddy posted:

Who is going to buy a post war Lionel train for a 6 year old? He is not going to take care of it.

As a seller of used products why would you go? You can put it all on the bay and not have to lug it back and forth, plus not worry about someone damaging it.

 

Unless someone is selling it in the Orange or Purple Halls, there is nothing to worry about.  Those are the only "Public" halls.

MartyE posted:

J Daddy posted:

Who is going to buy a post war Lionel train for a 6 year old? He is not going to take care of it.

As a seller of used products why would you go? You can put it all on the bay and not have to lug it back and forth, plus not worry about someone damaging it.

 

Unless someone is selling it in the Orange or Purple Halls, there is nothing to worry about.  Those are the only "Public" halls.

Correct. And I am not worried. As a seller. I wouldn't sell at York. Even as a dealer.

Unless someone is selling it in the Orange or Purple Halls, there is nothing to worry about.  Those are the only "Public" halls

That is, unless the family decides to take advantage of the one time guest admission to the member halls.
Could they have done so before the dealer halls were opened to the public? ----- yes, but they'd have to know about the show first, and be enticed to attend.

I guess that most families will find the dealers halls to be more than enough, so this probably will not be an issue for anybody.

I wonder how many of those with critical comments above are actually TCA members.  If you are not a TCA member then you should keep quiet since the TCA is really none of your business. 

If you have critical comments of the York show, please mention your TCA membership at the bottom of your post and whether you are a Eastern Division member.  If you are a TCA member, but not in the Eastern Division, then you should also keep quiet and spend your spare time creating a "York" type train show in your division.

I am a TCA member but not in the Eastern Division.  I drive about 3400 miles round trip to the York show.  My first York was in 1991.  If I didn't feel it was a good show, I would stop going.  Obviously they are doing something more right than anyone else, including Greenberg and WGH, et al (can you say high table costs).  

Show me a better train show in the USA for O and S gauge.   As for dealers, what train show has a higher amount of dollars spent per attendee?  What other train show does Lionel, MTH, Ross, Atlas, Charles Ro, Nicolas Smith, Gryzboski Trains, etc, all attend?  I'm listening but just hearing the crickets.

We hear a lot of that "Oh we're just trying to make it better" bull.  You just want it done your way and eliminate anything you personally aren't interested in.  

MartyE posted:

J Daddy posted:

Who is going to buy a post war Lionel train for a 6 year old? He is not going to take care of it.

As a seller of used products why would you go? You can put it all on the bay and not have to lug it back and forth, plus not worry about someone damaging it.

 

Unless someone is selling it in the Orange or Purple Halls, there is nothing to worry about.  Those are the only "Public" halls.

There are a few dealers in the Orange Hall selling VERY expensive vintage/antique German and British  train items. Guess they better move. That will free up space for the Thomas the Tank Engine sellers.

TCA member 05-588XX

Joe Hohmann posted:

There are a few dealers in the Orange Hall selling VERY expensive vintage/antique German and British  train items. Guess they better move. That will free up space for the Thomas the Tank Engine sellers.

TCA member 05-588XX

They'll have to be more careful for sure. You can't please everyone. 

They'll have to be more careful for sure. You can't please everyone. 

Yes, heaven forbid a vendor be able to safely display a collectable at a Train Collectors Association show

My feeling is that the Eastern Div. should have just left well enough alone--keeping the event as a members-only activity and simply adjusting things to meet the somewhat inevitable decrease in participation caused by demographic changes. My guess--and I could certainly be wrong--is that the new policy will not, over time, enhance the event itself or TCA membership.