Difference between Lionel FTs and Scale F3s

I was looking at this picture, and one thing that always bothered me was the fact that the Lionel FTs had nose doors with headlights.  Is there a way that I can swap the nose door from an already painted F3 into the nose of the FTs?

It looks like the F3 nose door is a separate piece.  Anyone know where I can get the painted nose doors, Lionel doesn't list them separately?  I'm also going to work on the pilots, as well... but one detail at a time.

Thanks,

Mario

Isn't the FT a little shorter than an F3?

Now that you mention it, I think they're supposed to be, right?  Well... not according to Lionel!

Thanks,

Mario.

We have a couple of older Premiere (scale?) FTs and they are definitely shorter than our Lionel and Atlas F3s....

FTA = 47'6"

F3A = 50'8"

Coupler to coupler.

Rusty

Thanks Rusty.

Here are two pics of an Atlas F3 and a MTH FT that are aligned together at the rear of the cabs in the aerial view. This FT has a second (MARS) headlight too - is that prototypical?

Well, you said you measured them and they are scale size, right?  I think the more distinctive characteristic is the nose profiles.  F3 being more snub nosed, the FT more aerodynamic perhaps.  The little Lionel FTs have 2 headlights as well.  Besides the door (I would let it go for now, revisit later perhaps, and deal with if deemed necessary at that point), how do those beauties sound and run?

c sam:

The second headlight on the FT is prototypically accurate. In fact, the 167 was the first Santa Fe FT set equipped for passenger service as built. Your A unit is intended to represent part of that set which was delivered to the railroad early in 1945 so you you own a model of an historically significant locomotive.

Enjoy,

Bob

I don't know yet... since I don't have a home layout (read "collector"), I'm joining the CNY Chapter of the NRHS in Syracuse to start running stuff on their layout.  Hopefull, I'll have some great movies, soon.

Here's a picture of brand-new NYC FTs running through Rochester...

http://www.nymtmuseum.org/head.../emd_ft_a-b_1600.jpg

The NYC originally painted them in the whisker scheme, and there was no markings on the B unit, as the A and B were permanently joined as a single unit.  I believe, the FTs were shorter than the F2s and F3s because the batteries were located in the B, making them a single, twin prime mover unit.

It was after this that they went to the abridged lightning stripe, then finally the full lightning stripe.

Does anyone know when they were expunged from the roster?

Thanks,

Mario

actually, I believe SantaFe158 has a set of Santa Fe FTs, maybe he has a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzKaWrS-GVc

thanks,

Mario

New York Central was still operating FT units into the early 60s.  Built in '44, they enjoyed a lengthy career.

Bob  

The FT and F3 share essentially the same nose.  Any differences in aerodynamics was minimal and inconsequential.

Rusty

Rusty is correct concerning the REAL EMD "F" units. However, the same can NOT be said about various model manufacturers concerning that famous "Bull Dog" nose of the last 50 or so years, regardless of scale.

I only have the Lionel A unit that came in the El Capitan set.  Still haven't bought a B or second A yet.  That's my video there.  I don't think I ever took a video of just that set, but I believe it's shown in a couple others.

You can see it in this movie.  I think it's at about 35 seconds into it.

Thanks, SF158...

I also have the conventional FT-A w/ Trainsounds, but from the NYC Limited set.  Sounds are pretty close, I believe!  I'll need 2 more B units to make a prototypical set, since I have three A units (1602, 1603 & 1604) and one B (2403)...

Does anyone know if the A's and B's were paired with their last numerically matching B?  For example, was 1602 matched with 2402, and 1603 with 2403?

PS - Hey, how did your Eagle Scout project go?

Thanks,

Mario

I believe I answered my own question by looking on the web... Yes!  The Central, as far as I can tell, paired the A_B sets up with the last two digits of the engine numbers matching.  Or, at least they were delivered that way.... 1600/2400, 1601/2401, 1602/2402, 1603/2403 and 1604/2404.

Therefore, since I have only one B unit (2403), then it look like I will have to move the shell for 1603 off the dummy chassis, and onto the powered chassis.

Just an FYI...

thanks,

Mario

Remember, that for the first few years of their lives, ALL FT sets where A-B, since the "A" was draw-bar connected to the "B", and since the set of batteries where mounted in the "B", an "A" couldn't even get its diesel engine started, without being connected to its "B".

There were only four NYC FT A units.  1604 was a F2.

Doug

The Lionel FT's are under-appreciated, even by Lionel. Were they to offer the NYC

FT in the Century scheme (so-called "cat's whiskers"), my favorite NYC diesel scheme, and

basic ERR Cruise, sane price, and so on, I would be all over them. A single "A" would 

do.

The second headlight/MARS (or Gyralight?) is correct or not, depending upon the road.

NYC's FT were single headlight. I Lionel used the Santa Fe dual light for both models

I knew that...

This was a test, and you PASSED!  Just kidding...

Here's what confuses me... Lionel NYC 1604 versus Atlas NYC 1604

Lionel actually made versions of all the NYC FT-As:

• 1600 & 1601 are in the Conventional "AA" set.
• 1602 & 1603 are in the Command "AA" set.
• 1604 is in the NYC Limited set.

All this, and only a single B unit road number (2303)!

Thanks,

Mario

As mentioned in a previous post above, the Central rostered only four FT A units. The numbers were 1600 through 1603 inclusive. The 1604 was the first of two F2 units delivered to the railroad; therefore, the Atlas model is correct whereas the Lionel FT numbered 1604 is not.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob

If additional information regarding the FT is desired, I recommend the following book:

https://secure.witherspublishi...onary-diesel-emcs-ft 

There are those of us for whom the study and research of the prototype is the most enjoyable part of this entire endeavor.

Bob  

Ok, so I came across this part...

to insert it into here...

How easy do you think it would be to remove the nose door from the FT and insert this one in its place?

I don't think the nose door on the FT is removable, so some filing and cutting might be needed...

Thanks,

Mario

I have the Wabash FT from the Bluebird set--conventional with Trainsounds. I have to say that I am not pleased with it:

1) Jackrabbit starts.

2) Loud static in the sounds when operating at low voltage (anything below 9-10 volts, a.k.a. 90 smph).

3) Pronounced wobble when running, especially in the front truck.

Sent it back to the factory under warranty. They replaced the front truck and the sound board--which helped problems 2 & 3, but only marginally. I wired the motors in series, which helped with problems 1 & 2, but the static is still very pronounced at yard speeds.

Thanks for the update, William!  I love the looks of the Wabash FT Bluebirds...  I wonder how easy it would be to swap the Bluebird FT-A onto a command equipped frame?

As you can see, I have a hard time keeping anything stock!

thanks,

Mario

They're essentially the same locomotives, just different electronics.  Shouldn't be difficult at all.  Just a simple shell swap and if the front pilot isn't removable, possibly a little paint.

As for nickaix's issues with the Wabash FT, must have gotten a bad one.  I've had a Santa Fe one from the El Capitan set since 2007 and it hasn't given me any trouble.  One of my best running conventional engines.

hello guys and gals.........

do the lionel starter set FT's come with metal gears or is it black plastic gears ?  Where can i find a lionel Santa Fe FT single A unit  new in the box for reasonable price ? as seems that most dealers want too much money for them.

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

Hey, Jake... How's school going?  Headed off to college, right?

I have a similar problem with my NYC Flyer 0-8-0, just doesn't sound great at low voltages.  So, I just max out the train length, 11 cars or so, and use the upper range of the throttle.  A good transformer, with a good waveform.  I use an MRC throttlepack.

This year, its going to be my daughter's pink GG1 pulling the North Pole Central!

Thanks,

Mario

Nope, still have 1 more year of High School left.  Thanks for asking though.