Division Point anouncements: taking reservations for potential run of O scale Rs-2 diesels, listed a number of rd names,reservatons to include 1K deposits on projected 2K + shipping direct sales only,check their website for all details.
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I would love to have one, but IMHO asking for 50% upfront is a deal breaker.
He didn't provide any info on who the builder will be, what kind of time frame should be expected, etc... He just said send me your $1000 and we'll get going.
Sorry, I won't be pre-ordering. I will gladly pay the extra $400 when(if) they actually get produced. I'm not letting anyone sit on a grand for an indefinite amount of time. If they don't get made then so be it.
What he said....
Jeff C
I often wondered about these arrangements.
Would not it be wise to consider a formal escrow account which holds both parties to responsible action and at the same time protects either party from wrong actions of the other?
A letter of dedicated escrow may also be confirmation to a builder of actual sales commitment.
From Wiki..:As with traditional escrow, Internet escrow works by placing money in the control of an independent and licensed third party in order to protect both buyer and seller in a transaction. When both parties verify the transaction has been completed per terms set, the money is released. If at any point there is a dispute between the parties in the transaction, the process moves along to dispute resolution. The outcome of the dispute resolution process will decide what happens to money in escrow. With the growth of both business and individual commerce on the web traditional escrow companies have been supplanted by new technologies.
I often wondered about these arrangements.
Would not it be wise to consider a formal escrow account which holds both parties to responsible action and at the same time protects either party from wrong actions of the other?
A letter of dedicated escrow may also be confirmation to a builder of actual sales commitment.
Seems not unreasonable. Putting up 50% up front for me equates to being a 50% owner of the business along with other others that might put up their 50%. Formalization of the agreement would seem a necessity.
I often wondered about these arrangements.
Would not it be wise to consider a formal escrow account which holds both parties to responsible action and at the same time protects either party from wrong actions of the other?
A letter of dedicated escrow may also be confirmation to a builder of actual sales commitment.
From Wiki..:As with traditional escrow, Internet escrow works by placing money in the control of an independent and licensed third party in order to protect both buyer and seller in a transaction. When both parties verify the transaction has been completed per terms set, the money is released. If at any point there is a dispute between the parties in the transaction, the process moves along to dispute resolution. The outcome of the dispute resolution process will decide what happens to money in escrow. With the growth of both business and individual commerce on the web traditional escrow companies have been supplanted by new technologies.
Woah there pardner. Aren't we making assumptions that Division Point doesn't know how to handle deposits?
Although, I would agree that half the anticipated MSRP seems a little high. But, if that's Division Point's business model and it works for them, so be it. Obviously, there are folks out there that have no issue with such deposits.
While I haven't dealt with Division Point, I have dealt with brass builders that required deposits. All have stated that if the project was cancelled, the deposits would be refunded. But if one "chickens out," the deposit is surrendered.
Two projects I had interest in were cancelled and I got my deposits back. No big deal.
Bottom line is, it depends on how badly one wants something from this importer. These particular locomotives are apparently built to reservation, so secondary market or "in stock" models may not be readily available.
Rusty
hibar: Where is it on their websit? Stephen
This was in the latest newsletter DP just sent out Aug 20 send me your Email and I will forward it to you as I am not sure how to attach an Email to this post everything is explained including selling direct on this model[think 40-50 pieces 3-4 Rd names each] if DP can get enough deposit/reservations he will probably make up the difference to do the run. I am amazied at the amount of high end HO products he sells out of, the latest Steam locos[not articulateds] are pushing the price of this projected O scale model[true this is being offered direct versus a dealer netwook for the HO products]As an aside Erics photo skills highlighs the stunning detail on both the O and HO models,just my opinion but I have seen a number of these models at meets [ Keys tables]and I think they look better in the pics than in personJMO
My comment was objective "...these arrangements". Not subjective i.e. questioning D/P's integrity. Good people-excellent product IMO. I have purchased their product in the past and may in the future. Sorry you got that from my text.
Stuff happens, people pass away, rarely on schedule. Just had one of my sole proprietor venders drop dead in the middle of an order. We had been conducting our business in such a fashion that no one was at a financial loss.
Factories fold, bankruptcies happen, government regulations cause collapse. Escrow accounts protect everyone.
Escrow agreements can be set up individually to allow or not allow cancellations with contingencies and penalties agreed to by all parties.
It simply is not a wise business practice to have large percentage deposits or large amount of funds out there on a verbal handshake. Again, not a critique of D/P's honesty.
Some may brag about how much advance monies they gave for such and such project but that does not negate sound business structure. It may however speak to something else.
My comment was objective "...these arrangements". Not subjective i.e. questioning D/P's integrity. Good people-excellent product IMO. I have purchased their product in the past and may in the future. Sorry you got that from my text.
Stuff happens, people pass away, rarely on schedule. Just had one of my sole proprietor venders drop dead in the middle of an order. We had been conducting our business in such a fashion that no one was at a financial loss.
Factories fold, bankruptcies happen, government regulations cause collapse. Escrow accounts protect everyone.
Escrow agreements can be set up individually to allow or not allow cancellations with contingencies and penalties agreed to by all parties.
It simply is not a wise business practice to have large percentage deposits or large amount of funds out there on a verbal handshake. Again, not a critique of D/P's honesty.
Some may brag about how much advance monies they gave for such and such project but that does not negate sound business structure. It may however speak to something else.
There is concurrence.
I agree with Tom, but these opinions do not preclude others just "going for it". The market is sufficiently slim that this may be the only chance a select few will get to own a definitive RS-2. That select few regards a grand the way most of us think of lunch money - no big deal.
50% deposit is awfully steep. There is that other importer of high end brass that sat on deposits for years, and no locomotive showed up. That left a bad taste in my mouth re deposits to importers. A depositor is just naked as regards protection of his capital.
That select few regards a grand the way most of us think of lunch money - no big deal.
Sadly, the majority of O scale modelers are relegated to just watching pretty pictures of items tat they will never own.... There are few offerings occupying that space between the routine commercial items and the unobtainable.
Erik! Starving Artist! I doubt it....
Based on your skill set, you and your family will never starve!
I personally appreciate your artistry.
Regarding DVP, we live in a free country. You don't accept DVPs term sheet, move on...
Toms post makes a great deal of sense to me. I've been through the deposit gauntlet with another importer and although I received my model, I won't revisit that process again.
As Tom pointed out many things can go wrong besides someone being dishonest. Bad things can happen to good people. Escrow deposits would work for me.
Butch
Well, if you aren't willing to sell the children for medical experiments, maybe sell off a camera or 2.......and dust off the the old Polaroid, 
Well, if you aren't willing to sell the children for medical experiments, maybe sell off a camera or 2.......and dust off the the old Polaroid,
Wait... I can sell my kid? 
Well, if you aren't willing to sell the children for medical experiments, maybe sell off a camera or 2.......and dust off the the old Polaroid,
Wait... I can sell my kid?
Probably not in this country......... Heck, you might have to pay some folks to take them!
Well, I suppose I could sell an old Mustang, or my Piper Cub, and buy one of these things. Actually, I am fortunate - I could write a check and not really feel it. I just plain old do not want an incredibly expensive locomotive.
If anybody else wants an incredibly expensive locomotive, I have one for sale right now - twenty grand, and bring a one ton pickup. It was fun owning it, but it is going.
Bob2:
no needs to worry about the RS2 from DP. It has been concelled. Stephen
Believe me, these things do not trouble me. I am impressed with new, high end models, and when they are produced they add art and beauty to the world. I do not mourn things that are not built.
Bob2:
no needs to worry about the RS2 from DP. It has been concelled. Stephen
That was a quick decision on the part of DP,I assume you must have spoken to him as nothing new has been posted from the site.On that note I have not seen anything new posted from MWM either.
As of the 21st:
I have pretty much settled on ……Nothing! I am throwing this one back to you guys….let me know what you want. I appears that the RS-3 will cover more customers wants than the RS-2…..so be it! I have already heard from many, now lets get the “Players” identified. I will continue to up date.
One could interpret that to indicate that the RS-2 is cancelled.......or not,
I have pretty much settled on ……Nothing! I am throwing this one back to you guys….let me know what you want. I appears that the RS-3 will cover more customers wants than the RS-2…..so be it! I have already heard from many, now lets get the “Players” identified. I will continue to up date.One could interpret that to indicate that the RS-2 is cancelled.......or not,
Not disagreeing with you - just pointing out how what's posted on the internet can be misinterpreted to mean whatever someone else wants or thinks it means.
Then again, I am but an egg and if it's on the internet it must be true....
I don't know one RS from another, but Eric posted some beauties elsewhere. Apparently a few have already been done in high end brass. Are you guys actually fighting over semantics? We could have a knock-down over spelling.
So we are not talking about the "Elite" for these projects we are talking about the "Players" [risk tolerance] on another note Eric you mention the PAs were a gift from Key how come I did not get one "JK" the 7' radius was interesting to accommodate truck and end detailing,had not given that a thought.
I was willingly going to send my cash but seems no PRR so no risk. Mr Bob2 your a hippie this is a hippie
If the DP project is changed to RS3 then the RS2 is cancelled!
Get over it. Yes the RS2 had a great response, but great response does not mean there is enough orders. There is NOT enough orders! ! ! ! End of Story.
Quote: Pass the word around, hopefully folks read my "retraction" on the RS-2. We will get to that model later.......maybe Cheers
Enough said! As pointed out to Jack, The RS3s are the most produced version. Stephen
Ps et. al.: couple of typos, GROW UP silly people! "Misspelled words are done intentionally, Typos are done accidently."
AS Quoted by Erik: "2127 or whatever his name is stated the project was "concelled" so actually he did not say they are canceled. :-P
Jack has not canceled any o scale project as 2143 led me to believe. "
Erik: I have not degraded you by misspelling your name. What kind of person are you to do that to someone else? I will pray for your soul for being childish. May God help you to put away childish ways my son. Stephen
Yes Mr. Lindgren that is a buskateer from Counciltucky. That is one sweet oval!! Excellent provenance Your ragtop should be exquisite also, can't wait to see that one someday. Only have 3 Vw's now, A 64 standard and 2 baywindow campmobiles, both well traveled. So will the Rs 3s have more selection or am I confused?
Yes Mr. Lindgren that is a buskateer from Counciltucky. That is one sweet oval!! Excellent provenance Your ragtop should be exquisite also, can't wait to see that one someday. Only have 3 Vw's now, A 64 standard and 2 baywindow campmobiles, both well traveled. So will the Rs 3s have more selection or am I confused?
Will Division Point be making any Volkswagen models?
MR MWB there are some pics of Brother loves progress on a NP vw caboose. that looks really cool, thanks again for sharing your scratchbuilding knowledge on this and other forums. Erik have been a friend of Dick Bozarth since I was 13 pestered Al Skank for trannys , and have owned and restored Phil Crams mothers Karmann Ghia after it burnt in Paul Scotts warehouse fire. Man did that guy have a car collection
I saw that caboose -- really unique!!
I have a styrene scratchbuilding project rising to the top of the queue and it's not my most used medium for building by a ong shot.
I'd love to see BL write that up for a magazine article so that I (and everyone else!) might learn some of his techniques with styrene!
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