Do brass steam models ruin a man on die-cast versions?

My brass Sunset K4s is one of the best detailed steam locomotives I have.  Coming out of the HO and N world, I don't see anything in O to be particularly delicate.

Now comes the next level question, once you experience a better brass model than the one you have does it ruin you further?  The PSC K4s is even more detailed than my Sunset one and one day I'll track one down finances permitting.  Likewise my Sunset brass P70 coaches are really nice, then I got some PSC ones.  Oops....

My J1 isn't too shabby either.

MTH Dreyfuss.

3rd Rail Drefuss.

The MTH engine ran perfectly out of the box. The 3rd Rail engine came with drivers badly out of quarter and ran terribly. Thats been rectified.

Again, brass is not always the best.

Pete

@Norton posted:

The MTH engine ran perfectly out of the box. The 3rd Rail engine came with drivers badly out of quarter and ran terribly. Thats been rectified.

Again, brass is not always the best.

Pete

The opposite is often true as well. 

Those of us old enough to remember recall the years when brass models were the only competition to Lionel; Williams, Weaver, ROW, and one or two more that I cannot remember. They were competitively priced with Lionel. Mike Wolf was selling all these brands and in 1989 commissioned the Reading T1 for Lionel. I'd venture to say that the die-cast revolution began in the early 90s.

@GG1 4877 posted:

The opposite is often true as well.

Not that often in my experience. With a brass steam locomotive collection into the triple digits I don’t think 2% ever ran perfectly out of the box. I always thought of them as assembled kits that had to be disassembled, then reassembled correctly to run satisfactorily. I guess I am fortunate my new diecast Lionel and MTH engines ran without problems. Only some used engines required repair on arrival and the fact they were broken was known before purchasing.

Pete

@Norton posted:

MTH Dreyfuss.

3rd Rail Drefuss.

The MTH engine ran perfectly out of the box. The 3rd Rail engine came with drivers badly out of quarter and ran terribly. Thats been rectified.

Again, brass is not always the best.

Pete

Is it just the light or are the paint colors on the two models that far apart?  Which paint is closer to the prototype?  NH Joe

I have both brass and diecast steam models.  In general, the brass models are lighter than the diecast. This usually means that the diecast will out pull the brass engine.  

I have found that the brass engines leading and trailing trucks tend to derail because of their light weight.  I usually have to add weight to the trucks.  Also, I have had to add electronics to most of my brass engines.  Both MTH and Lionel diecast engines come with excellent sound and smoke right from the box.  

Overall, I would say that diecast from Lionel or MTH beats brass when it comes to operation.  Brass does well as a display model from the box and can equal diecast with some major upgrades such as new electronics and smoke units.   NH Joe

@New Haven Joe posted:

Is it just the light or are the paint colors on the two models that far apart?  Which paint is closer to the prototype?  NH Joe

Look at the buildings in the background. The photos are over one stop different in exposure.    j

@New Haven Joe posted:

Is it just the light or are the paint colors on the two models that far apart?  Which paint is closer to the prototype?  NH Joe

Its not the light Joe. No two Dreyfuss engines ever matched each other and in some cases the engines don’t even match the cars that were made for them. Thats one reason I have four of these just to get a matching engine and cars. The 3rd Rail engine and GGD cars do match. I have no idea which color is correct. The subject has come up in the past but no one knows for sure.

Pete

All that Pete says plus a photograph is never the final word in what color the subject was. Things have got better in the digital world but film was notorious for shifting colors. Even to the point of shifting warm and cold colors in different directions. Even when the type film (daylight vs tungsten) was matched with the light source.      

   As for the original question sitting a Koh's brass model next to any other brass loco will ruin you. But since I will never own one I'm OK with lesser models whether brass or diecast.       j

My experience with modern brass in 0 scale has been, I buy it, put it on the tracks, and it runs. I add weight and it pulls just as well as the stock die cast. Of the brass I own, 3rd Rail is the least detailed but is also moderately priced and welcome. I've also had good luck with running Kohs, Overland and PSC brass models which have an extra level of detail, and the really lacy detail that I don't see on the die cast engines.

Fancy electronics can be added to suit your preferences.

Every now and then I pull out my MTH die cast N&W class A engines and put them on the tracks next to my PSC A and every time I put the die cast back in the box. Maybe that will change someday. I hope so. I do often run the MTH N&W J engines and I think the streamlining negates some of the disparities between the brass and die cast versions.

I've had few problems handling or running brass or die cast.

@christopher N&W posted:

...I've had few problems handling or running brass or die cast.

I agree with this statement. If you're careful, it shouldn't really matter what it's made of, right?

Having said that, I find it's easier to fix brass that's come loose/ broken off; solder or JB weld. With die cast, the only option is JB...both work well.

Happy Labor Day.

Mark in Oregon

John Smith's Hudson in Santa Fe colors.  Not a model of a Santa Fe 4-6-4.  John

Care to explain that?  It certainly has more ATSF earmarks than, say, NYC or CB&Q.  It is a nice looking model.

@rattler21 posted:

John Smith's Hudson in Santa Fe colors.  Not a model of a Santa Fe 4-6-4.  John

Yo, John!  Why not?  I have a couple of these Pecos River engines (3450, 3458)  The whole series was sold as such.  It's a lot closer replica than a Lionel 2055!!

KD

I have some Williams brass which is nice but I just got my first 3rd rail steam and its a whole other level. I wouldn’t say it’s ruined diecast for me, but I see more brass in my future than diecast.

Yes - just looked up the 3450-class ATSF "little" Hudsons - dead ringer, except for the track.

Here is a Hudson that never existed in real life, except in my imagination.

@dkdkrd posted:

Yo, John!  Why not?  I have a couple of these Pecos River engines (3450, 3458)  The whole series was sold as such.  It's a lot closer replica than a Lionel 2055!!

KD

KD,

I think the NYC 4-6-4s were built by ALCO and the SF 4-6-4s were built by Baldwin.

John

@rattler21 posted:

KD,

I think the NYC 4-6-4s were built by ALCO and the SF 4-6-4s were built by Baldwin.

John

Not real sure what THAT has to do with it, but the model in your photos of a Santa Fe 4-6-4 is indeed a Baldwin.

The model shown has a circular builder's plate which is correct for a Baldwin built steam locomotive. ALCo used a rectangular builder's plate on steam locomotives.