Does anybody ever run a dummy unit in front of a powered loco? Here's why I ask.

"I don't have a lot to spend on this hobby"

Long-term, this is more of a blessing than you know.

And, sure you can push dummies around with powered units. After all, with most AA diesel sets you may be doing that half the time anyway.

Food for thought, however: the dummy should have reasonable heft (most do) and roll and especially track well. Most do, again. This is more important when pushing than when the dummy is actually just another car, being pulled. Just be aware. Also, sometimes, depending on everything, the "pushed and pushing" couplers sometimes flop and "angle" around in ways that can cause tracking problems, especially on tight curves. (Everything is worse on tight curves.)

Since it's for the kids, they might run it a bit fast. A little extra weight over the wheels in front might help it hold curves and go over turnouts a little more reliably.

My grandfather always ran his Postwar FA-2 AA units this way with the dummy in the front followed by the powered unit.

Sounds like a great idea to me. I do it a lot with my ABA unit pulling a long train.  It's about having fun and you are doing it!

Your idea is solid.   Remember, however you decide to play with your trains is the right way to do it.   Also, yes, I have had dummy unit on the lead of a 2 or 3 unit consist.  No issues.

GOOD LUCK!  :-)

I had a pair of powered Atlas big Alco 6-axle, high short-nose "Alligators" for one of my C&O coal trains. I then acquired a "dummy" Atlas C&O GP9, with all the necessary lights, so I used the dummy in the lead with the two powered "big Alcos" handling the train. It looked great, especially since the GP9 was much better detailed.

I’ve done it for a different reason. I was a member of a modular club and running at a show. I had the coupler fail on the front of the non powered unit so rather than pull the locomotive I just switched it to the front of the train and pushed it. It looked great and no one knew the difference.

Thanks for the comments.

I am going to use all metal flat cars for the dummy frame, with metal trucks and wheels, to get the weight, but I may need to add a little more.

  I'm only going use old Lionel flat cars, with the knuckle couplers.  These are the only ones I trust.

  I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Thx,

Mannyrock

I run a dummy engine in front a lot and have run 2 dummy engines in front before.

Santa Fe #2345 is a Weaver GP38-2 dummy with TMCC and sound and pushed by a Kline GP38-2 powered unit with TMCC and sound.

Weaver UP GP38-2 #2288 (dummy with TMCC and Sound) pushed by MTH UP SW1500

#1108 (powered with TMCC only, no sound)

Skip the flat car scheme. Just get dummy units and save yourself the time & expense of finding shells and modifying them.  I run most of my postwar & MU'd MPC diesels(GPs etc.) with the dummy on front.

Rob,

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60. 

Mannyrock

CBS072,

Wow.  That train looks great!

@Mannyrock posted:

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60.

You must be looking at new, as used A-B & A-A pairs don't even go for that much on popular auction sites.

@Mannyrock posted:

Rob,

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60.

Mannyrock

Then what do you have? A cheap flatcar, which looks NOTHING like a diesel unit, plus a "worn out shell". To each his own, I guess.

I have a WbB E7 set with powered A & B with a second dummy A. The powered B frequently pushes the dummy A around freeing the powered A for another consist.

I don't run any dummy units.  Dummy units are too expensive for what you get, add another $100 and you get a second powered unit, with working lights, smoke unit and so on.

@Mannyrock posted:

By doing this, the powered unit will be the one actually pulling the train, while pushing the dummy  engine up front.   

Anybody ever done anything like this?

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Right-of-Way ABA units' instruction sheet recommended Dummy A-Dummy B-Powered A then the revenue cars.  John

Whatever gives the operator pleasure, especially the kids....

If/when the train shows open up would it be possible to find some clinkers that would be good for a dummy but not cost effective to make operational. Since you plan on repaint and special decaling physical appearance would be irrelevant  as long as the shell is intact.

Gotta believe you can find some beaten up, non-working engines pretty cheap.  Just strip out the motors.

@Mannyrock posted:

Rob,

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60.

Mannyrock

Instead of having what looks like a shell sitting on a flat car for $60, why not spend $9.67 more and get a REAL dummy engine?  Brand NEW graded per TCA standards C-10: Mint.

https://www.trainz.com/collect...el-locomotive-mt-box

Have Fun!

Ron

Ron,

Thanks very much for that great info.  But, this looks like it would be a large size O engine, meaning 14 inches or more from coupler to coupler.    I am pretty much restricted to traditional size engines, at 12 inches or less from coupler to coupler.

Any leads on cheap Traditional dummies?

Thanks,

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

Ron,

Thanks very much for that great info.  But, this looks like it would be a large size O engine, meaning 14 inches or more from coupler to coupler.    I am pretty much restricted to traditional size engines, at 12 inches or less from coupler to coupler.

Any leads on cheap Traditional dummies?

Thanks,

Mannyrock

I guess I just don't understand your requirement.  It works on O-27 curves.  Not sure what 2 inches of length has to do with it unless you are concerned about parking on sidings.

That same website has many other Modern, MPC and Postwar dummies from $50 - $100.  Maybe one of those others will suit your needs.

Good Luck.

Ron

Ron's suggestion works on 027.

I side with those that say you should try to get an actual locomotive under the shell.  Post a wanted to buy ad on the forum - asking for traditional sized diesels in running condition for your grandchildren to run with you.  I've found that people here on the forum range from fair to extremely generous.  You could likely land a nice deal if you were willing to buy a few at once from someone.

Thanks for the info guys.

I should have mentioned that the larger size engines look ridiculous running on the inside modified figure 8 of my layout.  (I have two of them, and am sorry that I got them.)   My Lionel EMD looks like a rolling milk bottle when on the inside.   Two inches can make a lot of difference based on how your layout is "laid out".  :-)

If I could afford to buy pure Scale engines, I think I would.  But, the shorter 12 inch engines are the best I can do.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Ron, Rob, Doug, Jim: Thanks for those great suggestions. 

You are correctly, I was stupidly looking at New dummies, since I didn't set the search parameter to Used on the auction site.

And, I never thought about getting a burned out engine and pulling the motors out.

I have never been to a big train show, but if those ever open up again, I think that would be a great place to look.  (I am definitely going up to the next York show!)

Mannyrock

I was going to say the same thing as others have said. You can get the smaller O27/semi scale engines for the price of a new full scale boxcar. I am talking about PW and MPC locomotives. I once bought a MPC VGN rectifier from a fellow forum member for $55. I got a MPC Alco FA for $20 (this was from a friend). From another forum member I got a Lionel starter set steam engine and 4 cars for $65. Of course none of these locomotives have the modern electronics and sounds in them but you don't need that stuff. So the deals are out there for the type of engines that you require. You just have to look for them. In my opinion painting a beat up shell and putting it on top a boxcar frame is going to be more trouble than it is worth and you really aren't going to save all that much money. Your time is very valuable as well as your funds.

I seem to remember at one time if you had an A-A set they use to say its better to push the dummy unit as it would give you better pulling power, something to do with it would not be pulling it also. To me, I can't see how that would make a difference but on my 2343 I do it because the dummy unit has a weak front coupler.

@Ron045 posted:

Instead of having what looks like a shell sitting on a flat car for $60, why not spend $9.67 more and get a REAL dummy engine?  Brand NEW graded per TCA standards C-10: Mint.

https://www.trainz.com/collect...el-locomotive-mt-box

Have Fun!

Ron

I would check into Ron's suggestion above. You cant beat the price for a brand new dummy unit.. You can repaint it or not. It is 027 so I cant see how it would look out of place on a basic figure 8 layout. If this car is to big I don't know what else would work for you. American Flyer S gauge? The beat up dummy body on a flatcar seems like a lot of work for something that is going to look like a dummy on a flatcar.. Good luck have fun with it.. Nice to have 4 more kids enjoying the hobby..

Erie,

My huge Lionel EMD is rated for both 031 and 027.  As a matter of fact, it runs fine on O27.  So, unfortunately for me, finding a dummy or engine that says 027 doesn't always mean it is the smaller Traditional Size of 12 inches or less.  :-(

@Mannyrock posted:

Rob,

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60.

Mannyrock

Especially if you're planning to repaint them, dummy engines that are "well played with" should be findable for $20 or less.  When train meets start up again, look in the boxes under the tables.

Have you considered the Williams Chuggington engines?  IIRC, Trainworld has them for about $60/$70.

I have a Lionel traditional sized PRR 0-8-0 that I'm looking to sell to a new home. It's cheap and would fit perfectly in the condition you're describing. Email me at sd70ace94@gmail.com if you're interested!

Michael

@Mannyrock posted:

Rob,

Thanks, but, Dummy units cost between $100 and $200.   I can probably buy both the flatcar and worn out shell for around $60.

Mannyrock

Why look for the WBB Chugginton Engines?  I believe they are getting blown out for about $60 $70 a piece.  They are powered engines, just no horns.

@Mannyrock posted:

Now, I know that this is corny, and el-cheapo, and that the purist here are dying of laughter about now, but simply for the sake of having my (now) four grandsons, all 5 years old or under, each be able to have their "own engines", in  bright kids' colors, with no concern on my part about them handling or breaking them, I think this may be a pretty good idea.

Hey if you and the kids are having fun, that's what matters here!  At that age, kids have a great imagination with anything you do.

I do agree with the comment about having some heft to whatever you are pushing. This pretty easy to achieve with spare nuts, bolts or old fishing weights glued to the interior of the shell.

Thanks Guys, I will look into the Chuggertons.

Meanwhile, here is a picture of my Lionel EMD on the inner 031 circle of my figure 8.  I know its a matter of taste, but it just looks too huge for me.

A friend of mine who posts on this forum has one of the most amazing 2 rail layouts I have personally seen and he converted a die-cast Thomas the Tank engine to 2 rail and it gets pushed by all sorts of 1950's trains of the NE.  It works well.

I have pushed dummies as well in my consists or put them in the middle of a consist with a powered loco on either side with no problems.

If you are having fun, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Michael.

Thanks for your generous offer. Yet, I am focusing on diesels for now.

Mannyrock

@JD2035RR posted:

Ron's suggestion works on 027.

I side with those that say you should try to get an actual locomotive under the shell.  Post a wanted to buy ad on the forum - asking for traditional sized diesels in running condition for your grandchildren to run with you.  I've found that people here on the forum range from fair to extremely generous.  You could likely land a nice deal if you were willing to buy a few at once from someone.

Yes, Most of the time, when I "Scrounge" (to borrow the tagline that Mitch uses), I am drawn to the LOT SALES. The shipping is a killer, and handling as well. Now, to be fair, it takes time to photograph and list and package and ship. I save gas and mileage shopping from the comfort of my home.

Siding with Ron and jd2035RR (is that an engine number "2035" =-)  ) And bundling rolling stock and parts in one shipping box is HUGE. And Enjoying your layout is also huge.

I had trouble with Lionel Auto Switch 022 and an ALCO (not alcoa <g> i am learning) engine that had a traction tire on one side. Folks from this forum (Friends from THis forum) suggested to push the dummy and the solid wheels would trigger the Lionel O22 switches perfectly. Problem solved.

Also, Do what brings you joy. AND Listen to those who offer an experience based on life from their side.

*Remember* Run trains with kids, let THEM run the trains, give THEM the joy of being in charge. That will be a seed that will gift you for a lifetime. When my grandson dropped a train on the carpet, I made sure that it was my little Marx Army 400. And that is why we call it TIMEX "Takes a licking, keeps on ticking."

Have fun, and live vicariously through the stories and posts and videos of the Master Craftsmen that give help to those of us who are only just beginning. I do. and wow, this got a "tad bit chatty" my apologies. Welcome