Does Anyone Collect Rare Variations?

Above title gave me a chuckle.  This IS the O scale/gauge forum, and many members also belong to TCA, of which the middle initial is "Collectors".  Many of whom collect Lionel variations.  Not this one...just pick up Lionel if they accidentally make a roadname or prototype of interest.  But that applies to all other makers.

K-514602 Missouri Pacific by K-Line

Uncatalogued. Produced in 1997 for set K-1527.  Less than 200 of these were made.

The "X" designation on any box for a PW Lionel product designated it was a variation not within the regular production run.  The variance could be any number of reasons, color, contents of a set, modification of any type from standard production.

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

I couldn't find my pic of this car so I used the pic off the catalog page from Buffalo Creek Graphics. I was lucky enough to get one of these..........Paul 2

Production Model: Canadian Pacific Railway Lionel ® heavy-duty, drop-center flat car with Niagara Mohawk Transformer Load, with 3-rail Lionel ® combination trucks and couplers.

#OH58

Canadian Pacific Railway

Lionel ® heavy-duty, drop-center flat car

w/ Niagara Mohawk Transformer Load

• TRUE Limited Edition: Only 59 cars were produced.
• Project date: 12-2004. ESLES 2004 annual issue.
• Was available only to ESLES members.
• Sold out -- no longer available. 
• Custom decorated for Buffalo Creek Graphics, an Authorized LIONEL® Decorator.
  • Based on prototype photos.
  • Road number issued: 309902.
  • Black car body.
  • Transformer is painted primer gray.
  • Prototypically accurate white and yellow lettering and graphics.
  • Authentic Niagara Mohawk Power (former) logo.

paul 2 posted:

I couldn't find my pic of this car so I used the pic off the catalog page from Buffalo Creek Graphics. I was lucky enough to get one of these..........Paul 2

Production Model: Canadian Pacific Railway Lionel ® heavy-duty, drop-center flat car with Niagara Mohawk Transformer Load, with 3-rail Lionel ® combination trucks and couplers.

#OH58

Canadian Pacific Railway

Lionel ® heavy-duty, drop-center flat car

w/ Niagara Mohawk Transformer Load

• TRUE Limited Edition: Only 59 cars were produced.
• Project date: 12-2004. ESLES 2004 annual issue.
• Was available only to ESLES members.
• Sold out -- no longer available. 
• Custom decorated for Buffalo Creek Graphics, an Authorized LIONEL® Decorator.
  • Based on prototype photos.
  • Road number issued: 309902.
  • Black car body.
  • Transformer is painted primer gray.
  • Prototypically accurate white and yellow lettering and graphics.
  • Authentic Niagara Mohawk Power (former) logo.

Pretty interesting combination but plausible. The CP crossed into the US not far from the power plant.

I have a few rare items but not necessarily because I hunt for rarity. More I collect certain types of cars and one or more may be rare and I need that one to complete the set. 

One example this car done for METCA, 1 of 23 I am told. I got it because I collect NYC TOFCs.

Pete

Pete, I was able to get one of those too. My understanding is METCA had them made up to hand out to members who worked hard on the convention that year. I also like to hunt for other Weaver TOFCs and Weaver wood chip hoppers. I like the quest of looking for those needle in a haystack items................Paul 2

I don't really collect but I have had some interesting things. Like a #5 test set, clear body GP9 MTH loco and a few others. Only 100 made, but the rarest thing I ever had in O gauge was the display of a Northern Pacific full dome passenger car. It was hand made for the railroad. I bought it from a guy on E-bay who found a wood box in a dumpster. He took it home and found the car inside. This car looked like it was partly made from Walthers parts to show people what the new full dome cars where going to look like. The box had many stickers from Railway Express and you could follow the stations where it was displayed. It was really a historical car. Very crude by todays standards but interesting. Don 

Not exactly a rare variation of anything, but this is the current "rare gem" in my roster: the Lionel #58514 TTM UP Flag 6464 Boxcar. Specially made for the Texas Transportation Museum in San Antonio, Texas. This car does pop up on eBay, but "in my research" there are only 3 listings up at a time and never more. All three listings ask in the $90-$100 range.

My example is more unique than the rest; not to brag or anything. Since it was built, it spent 7 years of its life on the TTM's O-Gauge layout before becoming part of my growing roster. When I attended the Model-T Car show earlier this year (2019 if someone sees this random post later on), I was hoping to come home with my own example but no more examples were available in the gift shop. But, one remained on their layout. I jokingly asked one of the guys if it could be sold, expecting the "we're keeping it" response but much to my surprise he said yes. I did not miss this opportunity, and managed to snag the last possible TTM-Owned boxcar for only $30.

It may be used, the box may be long-gone, it may be a bit dirty, but this one stands above the rest of the 499 other examples in that it was ran on their layout. In time, I will give this car the star treatment with a cleaning overhaul, box replacement and I may even consider getting a glass display just for this car.

One of my photos taken during the car-show, prior to the boxcar becoming part of my collection.

One last thing, does anyone have any possible cleaning tips (what to use, how to use it) alongside standard maintenance tips (oil/grease) for this car type? Despite being the rare gem, I still run it on my floor layout because I still operate and not collect.

Of things on my radar, that Niagara Mohawk Transformer car shown above is probably one of the least seen up for sale.  I'm not sure I've ever seen one at York, nor seen one pop up on eBay.  I do remember when I first saw the ad for it years ago when it was produced, but unfortunately for whatever reason I did not order one at that time.

Another I'd consider almost never seen for sale is one of the MTH CWI cars Tony Lash had made up for his business.  For the 1st boxcar that was produced, I don't think I've ever seen a regular production one with the road number 2 offered.  Once in a while the road number 1 will show up in a search. 

I have no idea what quantity were made for those, but I don't see them come up for sale much.  I was able to buy a pair of these that were the MTH test samples a few years ago when a lot of factory sample items were divested by MTH.  So I did acquire one, but that's the only one I've seen come up for sale.  (the test sample aside from the markings on the box and the "toe tag" hanging from the coupler is flawless as far as the paint and finish)

On a similar note, the 6 pack of hi-cubes that followed these, there are supposedly a very small number of those in existence.  I can't confirm it, but was told something like 43 sets were made by a dealer a long time ago.

-Dave

TheRWBYRailfan,      Glad to see your posting, sir.  I acquired one of the TTM cars when offered, and had much forgotten about it's limited production.  It is a nice car and though I have not ran mine, yet, it fits in great with my U.P. passenger consists. Although, now I am not so certain I may, can always find a regular run of express U.P. boxcar to utilize.  Another I have and like is my red Vanderbilt NYC engine, a production of only 250, and was also made in blue with same production numbers.

Jesse   TCA

texastrain posted:

TheRWBYRailfan,      Glad to see your posting, sir.  I acquired one of the TTM cars when offered, and had much forgotten about it's limited production.  It is a nice car and though I have not ran mine, yet, it fits in great with my U.P. passenger consists. Although, now I am not so certain I may, can always find a regular run of express U.P. boxcar to utilize.  Another I have and like is my red Vanderbilt NYC engine, a production of only 250, and was also made in blue with same production numbers.

Jesse   TCA

Thank you for the comment and sharing your example of this fine gem my good sir! Always glad to see that someone else in the US (or world, maybe one went overseas) has this rare beaut. I also like that red Commodore Vanderbilt you have too, a scale engine meant for collectors but painted in a way that pays tribute to Lionel's rich past of toy trains. Im not a big fan of the scale stuff myself, but rarities are always neat to look at!

I also couldn't help but notice your wording about subbing this car as an "Express" boxcar. I myself don't own any UP Passenger cars and wont for a while, but I think this little list may help you. One gesture to another I suppose!

Dunno if these count as express cars, but the markings are realistic and I think would fit in will with the Armour Yellow Passenger cars! Save this list, it may come in handy in the future. I don't own any of them yet, but in time come the right funding and acquisition of more appropriate rolling stock, I will.

• #19821 UP Operating Boxcar (Challenger Markings)
• #81725 UP Challenger Merchandise Service Car
• #1942170 "Vision" Challenger Boxcar 6-Pack
• #52412 LCCA Union Pacific Generator Car

A conversation about rarity.........

Mike Reagan, Neil Young, and I are having a conversation at the Lionel Tent many years ago at York.  A gentleman interrupts us and asks Neil if he would autograph his train car.  Neil obliges.  Neil turns back to Mike and me with a smile and says:  The cars without my signature are rarer; there's less of them.

Lou N

Lou N posted:

A conversation about rarity.........

Mike Reagan, Neil Young, and I are having a conversation at the Lionel Tent many years ago at York.  A gentleman interrupts us and asks Neil if he would autograph his train car.  Neil obliges.  Neil turns back to Mike and me with a smile and says:  The cars without my signature are rarer; there's less of them.

Lou N

I love that story, Lou. Neil sounds like he is fun to talk to with a great sense of humor. Hope he is doing well these days. Arnold

Not certain of the rarity, but how many of these has anyone else seen?  I know there are more around, not really made in small numbers, but how many have survived the years?

Jesse   TCA

texastrain posted:

Not certain of the rarity, but how many of these has anyone else seen?  I know there are more around, not really made in small numbers, but how many have survived the years?

Jesse   TCA

Any Lionel Racing accessories in good condition has got to be a real find!

Peter

I’ll purchase ones if they’re available and at a reasonable price. This silver version of the 3459 dump car I found in a junk lot for $25. Don’t know what it’s worth in this condition, but I’m probably not selling it anytime soon.

There are very few rare pieces I actually hunt for, but as a modern era collector, the “Holy Grail” of modern Lionel would probably be the Richard Kughn Carail T-1 in either blue or white. These are repainted Chessie T-1’s from '91, and about 15 of each were produced from the Lionel factory in Michigan. I have only seen one of these once on online auction in the past decade, so that should give a sign just how scarce these are.

I have always considered myself more of an operator so I don't actively collect for the sake of collecting, but I've had a couple rarities come across my hands including a New Haven 2242 AB set which had the outer carton (the outer carton being the rare part).  Some guys on ebay went crazy over it and paid about $4500.  Unfortunately we were selling for a friend of a family member, so it wasn't a payday for us.

One of the ZWs I have has the Cleveland sticker on the bottom, I've seen the Los Angeles one, but haven't found a Cleveland one for sale to compare it.  I haven't gotten a straight answer from those I've asked as to whether that makes it "rare" or not.  Then again, maybe it's rare here in Boston, but maybe there's a bunch of them still in Cleveland, haha

AXP889 posted:

One of the ZWs I have has the Cleveland sticker on the bottom, I've seen the Los Angeles one, but haven't found a Cleveland one for sale to compare it.  I haven't gotten a straight answer from those I've asked as to whether that makes it "rare" or not.  Then again, maybe it's rare here in Boston, but maybe there's a bunch of them still in Cleveland, haha

I have a Cleveland sticker.  Never could find out the details on it however.

Lou N

I have several unusual items, though I don't know how "rare" they are. Here are a few:

--Lionel 2531 observation with "Silver Bluff" plate instead of "Silver Dawn"

--Lionel 265E with "Lionel Lines" plate on the boiler instead of "Commodore Vanderbilt"

--Lionel 2653 black hopper car with rubber-stamped lettering

--Lionel 606 observation car with "Macy Special" drumhead

--Lionel 515 tank car with ivory paint and "Sunoco" decal

I like finding items like this because they are unusual and may be seen as "rare" by other collectors; more than anything, they make good conversation pieces when other collectors visit my train room. 

John

Mikado 4501 posted:

I’ll purchase ones if they’re available and at a reasonable price. This silver version of the 3459 dump car I found in a junk lot for $25. Don’t know what it’s worth in this condition, but I’m probably not selling it anytime soon.

There are very few rare pieces I actually hunt for, but as a modern era collector, the “Holy Grail” of modern Lionel would probably be the Richard Kughn Carail T-1 in either blue or white. These are repainted Chessie T-1’s from '91, and about 15 of each were produced from the Lionel factory in Michigan. I have only seen one of these once on online auction in the past decade, so that should give a sign just how scarce these are.

Mikado 4501 - I've seen maybe three auctions for the blue Carail T1. First one was in the early 2000s at one of the Carail/Madison Hardware auctions by Richard Kughn, if I recall correctly it sold for $3600. Second one about 3 years ago on ebay. I'm thinking the 3rd one was possibly at the Neil Young / Juliens auction or at one of the more recent Richard Kughn auctions.  Just my opinion, but the blue one is more attractive than the white one. Don't forget about the elusive 52054 Carail boxcar. The 52054 is very similar to the more commonly found TTOS 52053. Don't see many 52054 boxcars come up for sale either.