Does anyone know the validity of these reefers?

According to Wikipedia and the Atlas forum there were only 2 silver (aluminum) PFE reefers built.

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum...e&TOPIC_ID=57872

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R..._and_stainless_steel

The Lionel model looks fairly accurate to the prototype.

Its a good thing this was not posted in the counter-culture of the 60's. I could have verified their validity.

The atlas version

Very interesting, and not at all what I expected.

"Hmm, my sentiments exactly!"

Jerry

The Lionel reefer models a PFE R40-23 which  has a different style dreadnaught end than either of the two experimental PFE R40-14 aluminum superstructure reefers.  The AtlasO body is incorrect for either of the two PFE R40-14 aluminum superstructure reefers as it utilizes the Intermountain R40-10 tooling.  The visible differences are the R40-14 reefers featured rounded corner posts and low profile hatch covers, while the R40-10 has square hatch covers and corner posts.  Athearn made a very credible kit model of the aluminum PFE reefer 45698.  I also like the aluminum look  on the Athearn model as the body parts are of aluminum.   

PFE modified 50 R40-10 reefers for express service, painting them Pullman green.  I believe both AtlasO and Intermountain offered R40-10's painted

for express service.

Ed Rappe

OK, did PFE have some woodside refers painted green for head end passenger service?

Dominic

PFE operated a small fleet of 50' wood body express reefers that lasted into the early 1960's.  The cars were similar to, but shorter, than the AtlasO 53' express reefer.

Ed Rappe

Very interesting, and not at all what I expected.

Marker

What did you expect?

What did you expect?

Considering that Lionel had done a single reefer offering and also a set of 3 (a total of 4), I though that perhaps PFE had painted a number of silver reefers for a certain purpose, a train handling certain goods, or that was run on a "fast" schedule, etc.  Of course, I was only guessing.

I didn't expect that there was only two somewhat experimental aluminum cars.

Keystoned Ed, you seam to know your PFE cars, so what is your opinion on the MTH 20-94088 reefer?

Also, it is my understanding that reefers where painted silver to try and reflect heat back away from the car. I know the DRG "cookie boxcars" where done this way, it is possible that after reviewing the results it was determined that it was not worth repainting the entire fleet, I am only theorizing of course. I have the big PFE book, but unfortunately it is in storage right now.

I'm not familiar with the MTH reefer and so I can't comment on how it compares with its prototype.  Does anyone know what PFE class the MTH car is lettered for?  The two PFE aluminum body reefers had clear lacquer topcoat over unpainted aluminum.  The cars weighed 10,000 lbs less than their steel counterparts - but cost more to build.  The PFE book states that the experimental cars (one each  of materials furnished by Alcoa and Reynolds) were in part subsidized by discounting the cost of the aluminum.  Perhaps the line haul savings due to reduced weight didn't offset the higher construction cost or more would have been built.

With the exception of the two aluminum cars, PFE reefers featured red roofs up until a  change was made in 1962, when aluminum paint was specified. 

I don't claim to be an expert on PFE, but the PFE book by Thompson, Church, and Jones has a wealth of information in it that is very handy for modelers and manufacturers.

Ed Rappe

I just missed one of those Athern kits you mentioned on ebay this morning, oh'well, maybe next time. I am kicking myself for putting my PFE book into storage.

Finally got time to get "Pacific Fruit Express" book out of the upstairs library.

" In September, 1946, PFE finished construction at Los Angeles of an experimental car which had an all-aluminum super-structure, made from material furnished by Reynolds Aluminum. Even the running board, floor rack slats, hatch covers, brake wheel and most of the ice tanks were aluminum. The under frame, however was steel, except for aluminum side and end sills; safety appliances were also steel, as aluminum was not permuted for those parts."

"The car, numbered 45698, had been one of the 1000 R-40-14 cars built in 1941, and officially was 'rebuilt'."

"The finish was clear lacquer over bare metal. In October, 1947, PFE completed a second, virtually identical aluminum car, this time constructed of Alcoa's metal, and numbered 44739. As with the #45698, the number of a dismantled car was used."

"There were a few problems in service with galvanic corrosion wherever steel and aluminum parts were in close proximity, particularly in car #45698. Performance of "44739 was considered better, evidently due to better separation of aluminum and steel."

"Both cars lasted over 15 years in service. The 45698 was destroyed in a wreck on the Burlington at Stratton, Nebraska in May 1962, while #44739 was scrapped in 1966. Scrapping of the steel R-40-14's had begun by that time. Thus, as with other aluminum experimental cars, service durability was not one of the problems."

"These two aluminum reefers remained in their natural aluminum color all their lives."

Also, for what it's worth, many years ago Intermountain made a special exclusive run of both road numbers of the "aluminum" reefers for Des Plaines Hobby Shop.

Hope this helps. 

It seems the RR's were experimenting with AL cars right after WWII.  RI and GN had some AL boxes made (inspiring the sliver 6464's?).  

UP was half owner of the PFE.  UP did have some AL passenger cars.  Any influence?