Does anyone remember a fire in the old Madison hardware?

I have no first hand knowledge of it, but apparently there was a fire at some point. Stuff pops up occasionally at train shows touted as "from Madison hardware fire", but to me it could have been burned in any fire and can not be proven one way or another. Usually the box has smoke and water damage, or the engine has charred paint. The dealer sometimes wants a premium for it...

I'd like to know more about this fire.

I was a regular customer of Madison Hardware NYC.

They had some stock with water damage. Carl told me the damage was caused by burst pipes, not by a fire.

Folks have a tendency to try to legitimatize or enhance the value of their oddball trains by claiming those items are Madison Hardware related. Madison certainly did create some product, but I don't think they handled a lot of the items that are atributed to them.

What evidence could one have to prove that an item came from Madison?

Look for a Madison Hardware sticker on the box. The herald resembles Lionel's circle-L.

Another clue is a receipt from Madison.

I was in there several times in the 70's and never heard anything about a fire.

Carl told me the damage was caused by burst pipes, not by a fire.

I worked at MetLife in the 70's. Right on the next block. I saw fire trucks there and melted engine shells on the sidewalk. Fire was in one of their warehouse/stock rooms.

above the store on 23rd street.

Perhaps Carl didn't want the fire to be widely known.

I don't think any of the finished product that I purchased from Madision Hardware in the 1970's and beyond had Madison Hardware stickers on the boxes. The only receipts I got was the adding machine tape from totaling up the order. I still have some of those tapes. None of them have any indication that they came from Madison.

The Madison Legend continues. Not only did they make things up, but other people continue to make things up about them. Keep the stories coming....

Punchline to an old joke "how do you start a flood"

Brad

when i first saw the topic title ,i  thought maybe they confused madison,with the former glenn's in akron ,ohio. i was in grade school when i first went to glenns,it was in an older 2 story house. i still have the newspaper story when it went up. if ohio ever had its own madison hard ware-,it was glenns. that house was packed full of 1950s and 60s trains-basement -bedrooms and in between!.-jim

Actually, the "Madison Hardware" of Ohio was more likely Blum's Hobby House on Huron Rd. in Cleveland.  Back in my boyhood days when Lionel was my all-consuming passion, I looked forward to every visit to that large and fully stocked store.  Even took the train (Erie RR) to get there several times a year.

I lived in the Gramercy Park area of Manhattan from 1978 through 1982 and do recall that there was indeed a fire elsewhere in the building where Madison Hardware was located sometime either in 1979 or 1980. I watched the commotion on 23rd Street but as I recall, the store itself was not impacted as the fire was in an upper floor and further east.  They did have storerooms elsewhere so that could be where the damage occurred.  Don't know how anyone would actually prove an item came through that event though.

Does anyone remember a fire in the old Madison hardware?

Yes, it's the stuff of New York City legend. As with most such stories, it only gets more colorful as time progresses.

Allan,

  Hobby House in Cleveland was a great old store.  Some of my first O scale trains came from there.  I recall Wally using a ladder and yard sticks to carefully bring down an Erie Lackawanna ACF hopper from its lofty display track high up on the wall.  I nervously watched the yard sticks cling to the freight car as it lowered down to the sales counter.  I still have that hopper, which actually is photographed in an article on the Hobby House that was published before it closed. 

  Trading Post in Cleveland has the same old Lionel store feel.  And of course is still operating. 

The Hobby House is where I bought my sons first train set on December 24, 1992. That is when I became a full time hobby fan.....great memories!!!!!!!

In 1986 my aunt purchased the famous 1950's Lionel Sante Fe set in a sealed unopened box off of the display wall at the Hobby House. The owner told her several times that it was not for sale but she gave him an offer that he could not refuse...true story

Yes indeed there was a fire at Madison Hardware, not in the store itself but in the storage area in the same building.  I have many items obtained directly from Madison that were charred.  The date of the fire was December 3, 1974.

Bob Osterhoff

www.trainpaper.com

I'll go with Bob's answer!

Since a few of you brought up Hobby House and your experiences there, does anybody have any old Hobby House / Mercury Model catalogs  or price sheets.  I've been searching for these for years as part of my never ending research on promotional outfits.  I've found some outfits with old receipts, but never anything else.

They did some really interesting promotional outfits with Lionel.

Thanks,

John Schmid

www.projectroar.com

There was a small fire in the basement work area in the late 40s. I can't remember the exact year. The damage was strictly due to water from the sprinklers. Or, that is to say, water from any source whatsoever, but not from flame or heat. This was still in or near wartime, and Louie had bought huge cartons of thrown away parts for pennies from Lionel Cowan. These boxes were about a cubic yard apiece. He had people down there sorting out the contents, perhaps 75% of which was junk. But oh, the remainder! There were many of these in that basement, and they were the ones with water damage, which after the insurance settlement, were still salvaged. Madison hardware for all those years was the go to place for hard to find stuff, most of which came out of these cartons, that the factory had identified as garbage.

I think we have a rare and highly collectable Lionel Scout from the Madison Hardware fire sale ...

I was a Madison Hardware customer for 25 years And purchased many items that had water damage.anybody who knew Lou Schur would agree with me his words were, we had some water damage.Never did Mr.Schur speak of a fire or pipes bursting.It is not relevant if this damage was caused by fire or pipes.If anybody wants to claim that this was the case and jack up the price of a toy have the seller show some proof that indeed this was puchased at Madison Hardware such as a receipt. as always buyer beware.Thanks Gerald

I left to go to college in 1949. Prior to that I worked for Uncle Louie through the 40s. There was indeed a fire in those years. It was minor, but a couple of sprinklers did go off. Louie and Carl have passed on to their rewards, and neither has left any immediate family except for Carl's one daughter who remains disconnected, so I feel OK to disclose that Lou took a garden hose to some little valued merchandise that wasn't involved, in order to profit from the insurance by the misadventure. I imagine that artifacts from that occurrence would have special value if they could be identified. I knew nothing of a fire in later years, although it could have happened; I wasn't always perfectly connected to family events.

Carl and Louis's surname was spelled Shur.

Always great to hear stories of the legendary Madison Hardware. Have Carl and Lou been deceased for long? I know they seemed old when the store was open. Its hard to believe its been gone since 89. Were they natives of Manhattan?

I believe that Carl lived in Manhattan, and Lou lived on Long Island.

At one time Madison Hardware was a Hardware store. Carl showed my brother and I pictures during one visit. Carl claimed to still have a barrel of nails.

Carl died at 96. At the time of his death in the late 90s he was living in Florida. Louie died 4 months after his 100th birthday, at his home in Gainesville. in the 2000s. Sorry I can't recall the exact years. Louie's would have been somewhere between 2002-2004 I know, because the event occurred shortly before I returned to the states permanently in 2005. I did however return temporarily for his 100th birthday party celebration. I had some photos of him at that event, but can't locate them right now. When I come across them I'll post one here. As you might surmise, we are a long lived family. My mother Catherine, their big sister, also died in her sleep in her 100th year, in 1995.

If there ever was an appropriate application of that saying! 

Cosmic: Since you were related to Carl and Lou, can you "say" whether Augie (worked at the store for a while in the 1970's) was related too?

I got the feeling that he was, but nothing was ever said. I always spent my time with Carl or Lou.

Augie was not a blood relative.

BTW, I found Louie's photo from his 100th birthday. And here it is. I have a lot more, of both of them, if there's any interest.

thank you all for the info especially cosmic. Not only do I like to learn about the business but also the people that made it what it was. please post as many pics of the store and of carl and lou. everyone will appreciate it. it also keeps their memories alive as well as a long forgotten era in the great City of New York!!!