Does Lionel currently produce smaller post-war like locos with Legacy capability?

geepboy posted:

The subject says it all. I have an ancient Lionel loco , #2020, PRR 6-8-6 that runs in conventional mode only. Perhaps ERC can upgrade it to TMCC _ I don't know. But does Lionel currently make any such smaller locos that can be run with their Legacy system?  I'm not interested in any Lion Chief versions. I think that MTH makes the RailKing line that is the smaller size and I believe that Legacy can control the MTH locos after a fashion but I'm not sure.

Dan

To the best of my knowledge:

1) There is probably an ERR upgrade that would fit your engine, making it have TMCC (not full Legacy) features, which are fully controllable with the Legacy command base/remote since Legacy is fully backward compatible to run all TMCC engines.

2) Yes, but in a round about way.  It was uncommon to see basic PW style pieces offered with full Legacy features.  There could be exceptions I'm not aware of, but in general, I don't think they offered classics like a Post War clone 726 Berk or 681 Turbine with full Legacy features.

Side note: those are just just 2 examples - note that many (maybe almost all) of these PW classics were offered with TMCC around 15-20-ish years ago when TMCC first came out. The Century Club I and Post War Celebration lines specifically were designed to look like PW engines (with perhaps some minor upgrades, but essentially very close to PW style), but with TMCC electronics.

However, with the release of LionChief Plus 2.0 engines (not original LionChief, nor the previous LionChief Plus (no 2.0 after it)), they added TMCC compatibility to the engines.  This effectively brought all the starter set type engines (if offered as LionChief Plus 2.0) into the Legacy control realm (see note above re: TMCC backward compatibility).  So you no longer need to use a LionChief remote control separately as was required with original LionChief or LionChief Plus engines (the original Plus meant that the engine would operate in conventional with no remote - and LionChief Plus 2.0 will still do that, just with the addition of being TMCC compatible)

3) See above description.  With Lionchief Plus 2.0, there is no reason to discount these little engines, since thy can be run in TMCC mode(no LionChief remote required), and therefore controllable with Legacy.

4) Only if you are talking about varying the voltage to the track and controlling the MTH Protosound 2.0/3.0 engine in conventional mode.  You can't acces any DCS features with Legacy. 

-Dave

Some PW stuff is (to my eye anyway) closer to scale than others. One example (again, to my eye) is the PW GP7/9.  Assuming your question extends to diesels, the Legacy versions of these engines are some of my favorites and would look great in a PW-sized layout. 

Dave45681 posted:

geepboy posted:

The subject says it all. I have an ancient Lionel loco , #2020, PRR 6-8-6 that runs in conventional mode only. Perhaps ERC can upgrade it to TMCC _ I don't know. But does Lionel currently make any such smaller locos that can be run with their Legacy system?  I'm not interested in any Lion Chief versions. I think that MTH makes the RailKing line that is the smaller size and I believe that Legacy can control the MTH locos after a fashion but I'm not sure.

Dan

However, with the release of LionChief Plus 2.0 engines (not original LionChief, nor the previous LionChief Plus (no 2.0 after it)), they added TMCC compatibility to the engines.  This effectively brought all the starter set type engines (if offered as LionChief Plus 2.0) into the Legacy control realm (see note above re: TMCC backward compatibility).  So you no longer need to use a LionChief remote control separately as was required with original LionChief or LionChief Plus engines (the original Plus meant that the engine would operate in conventional with no remote - and LionChief Plus 2.0 will still do that, just with the addition of being TMCC compatible)

3) See above description.  With Lionchief Plus 2.0, there is no reason to discount these little engines, since thy can be run in TMCC mode(no LionChief remote required), and therefore controllable with Legacy.

-Dave

Dave,

Thank you. I can't tell you how much that helps me understand the situation - almost.

For example I go to Lionel - dot -com and click through Products- - Steam Locomotives and on the first page this appears...

http://www.lionel.com/products...un-train-set-6-83620

...among others. It's the Hogwarts train and it mentions Lion Chief but no mention of Lion Chief Plus 2.0 and comes with a Lion Chief Remote. So, shall I assume that this is NOT Legacy compatible?

With all this newly acquired knowledge (LOL) I do a search on - LIon Chief 2.0 - and come up with 0 - Zero products. Obviously, my newly acquired knowledge needs a little help. So where are the LIon Chief 2.0 products? Lionel doesn't make it easy to find them - OR - I just don't know what I'm doing (never can rule that out).

Dan

I have both the Legacy B&M  2-6-0 Mogul (6-84069) which is 16" long w/tender and the Legacy E6 Atlantic  which is 18.5 " long w/tender and also has whistle steam. Both are relatively small and will run down to at least an O-31 curve.

Be forewarned on the Mogul because it had hesitation issues and had to be sent back to the factory and overseas for repair, but runs well now. If you want one, make sure it has gone back to Lionel for repair.

The new Lion Chief 2.0 is also a good choice since it will run on a Legacy system. For choices, go to lionel.com/catalog and view the 2019 vol. 2 catalog.

geepboy posted:

Dave45681 posted:

geepboy posted:

The subject says it all. I have an ancient Lionel loco , #2020, PRR 6-8-6 that runs in conventional mode only. Perhaps ERC can upgrade it to TMCC _ I don't know. But does Lionel currently make any such smaller locos that can be run with their Legacy system?  I'm not interested in any Lion Chief versions. I think that MTH makes the RailKing line that is the smaller size and I believe that Legacy can control the MTH locos after a fashion but I'm not sure.

Dan

 

Dave,

Thank you. I can't tell you how much that helps me understand the situation - almost.

For example I go to Lionel - dot -com and click through Products- - Steam Locomotives and on the first page this appears...

http://www.lionel.com/products...un-train-set-6-83620

...among others. It's the Hogwarts train and it mentions Lion Chief but no mention of Lion Chief Plus 2.0 and comes with a Lion Chief Remote. So, shall I assume that this is NOT Legacy compatible?

With all this newly acquired knowledge (LOL) I do a search on - LIon Chief 2.0 - and come up with 0 - Zero products. Obviously, my newly acquired knowledge needs a little help. So where are the LIon Chief 2.0 products? Lionel doesn't make it easy to find them - OR - I just don't know what I'm doing (never can rule that out).

Dan

Dan,

You need to look in the Lionel catalogs. Here's a link to the 2019, Volume 2 book. There's a section on all the new Lion Chief 2.0 stuff beginning on page 70.

http://catalogs.lionel.com/19c2/# 

Edit: I see Richie beat me to it!

Actually, Lionel legacy Atlantic’s are a nice option. I believe a couple also had whistle smoke

No whistle smoke on LC+ 2.0, but the Lionel H-10 Consolidation had whistle smoke and a swinging bell, cool little locomotive.  Of course, the previously mentioned Atlantic has whistle smoke for several of the models.

geepboy posted:

Dave45681 posted:

geepboy posted:

The subject says it all. I have an ancient Lionel loco , #2020, PRR 6-8-6 that runs in conventional mode only. Perhaps ERC can upgrade it to TMCC _ I don't know. But does Lionel currently make any such smaller locos that can be run with their Legacy system?  I'm not interested in any Lion Chief versions. I think that MTH makes the RailKing line that is the smaller size and I believe that Legacy can control the MTH locos after a fashion but I'm not sure.

Dan

However, with the release of LionChief Plus 2.0 engines (not original LionChief, nor the previous LionChief Plus (no 2.0 after it)), they added TMCC compatibility to the engines.  This effectively brought all the starter set type engines (if offered as LionChief Plus 2.0) into the Legacy control realm (see note above re: TMCC backward compatibility).  So you no longer need to use a LionChief remote control separately as was required with original LionChief or LionChief Plus engines (the original Plus meant that the engine would operate in conventional with no remote - and LionChief Plus 2.0 will still do that, just with the addition of being TMCC compatible)

3) See above description.  With Lionchief Plus 2.0, there is no reason to discount these little engines, since thy can be run in TMCC mode(no LionChief remote required), and therefore controllable with Legacy.

-Dave

Dave,

Thank you. I can't tell you how much that helps me understand the situation - almost.

For example I go to Lionel - dot -com and click through Products- - Steam Locomotives and on the first page this appears...

http://www.lionel.com/products...un-train-set-6-83620

...among others. It's the Hogwarts train and it mentions Lion Chief but no mention of Lion Chief Plus 2.0 and comes with a Lion Chief Remote. So, shall I assume that this is NOT Legacy compatible?

With all this newly acquired knowledge (LOL) I do a search on - LIon Chief 2.0 - and come up with 0 - Zero products. Obviously, my newly acquired knowledge needs a little help. So where are the LIon Chief 2.0 products? Lionel doesn't make it easy to find them - OR - I just don't know what I'm doing (never can rule that out).

Dan

Dave,

Turns out I couldn't see the forest for the trees. I took a step or two back and just searched for Lion Chief 2.0 on the I-net and found the Lionel 2019 Vol 2 catalog with all the LC 2.0 products. Now all I have to do is to learn patience.

Thanks again. Your explanation really helped.

Dan

johnstrains posted:

geepboy posted:

Dave45681 posted:

geepboy posted:

The subject says it all. I have an ancient Lionel loco , #2020, PRR 6-8-6 that runs in conventional mode only. Perhaps ERC can upgrade it to TMCC _ I don't know. But does Lionel currently make any such smaller locos that can be run with their Legacy system?  I'm not interested in any Lion Chief versions. I think that MTH makes the RailKing line that is the smaller size and I believe that Legacy can control the MTH locos after a fashion but I'm not sure.

Dan

 

Dave,

Thank you. I can't tell you how much that helps me understand the situation - almost.

For example I go to Lionel - dot -com and click through Products- - Steam Locomotives and on the first page this appears...

http://www.lionel.com/products...un-train-set-6-83620

...among others. It's the Hogwarts train and it mentions Lion Chief but no mention of Lion Chief Plus 2.0 and comes with a Lion Chief Remote. So, shall I assume that this is NOT Legacy compatible?

With all this newly acquired knowledge (LOL) I do a search on - LIon Chief 2.0 - and come up with 0 - Zero products. Obviously, my newly acquired knowledge needs a little help. So where are the LIon Chief 2.0 products? Lionel doesn't make it easy to find them - OR - I just don't know what I'm doing (never can rule that out).

Dan

Dan,

You need to look in the Lionel catalogs. Here's a link to the 2019, Volume 2 book. There's a section on all the new Lion Chief 2.0 stuff beginning on page 70.

http://catalogs.lionel.com/19c2/# 

Edit: I see Richie beat me to it!

Slow day at the office !

Previous LionChief and LionChief + locos will operate on a Legacy layout (they are command control) but two important caveats are that (1) they cannot be controlled by TMCC/Legacy remotes/command bases and )2_ thus need their own remote that comes with every LC and LC+ loco/set. 

There is also a $50 universal remote, widely available for about $40 that can control 3 LC or LC+ (as well as Bluetooth/LC +2.0/Legacy locos) if you prefer to have fewer remotes around.  There is no current way to use the Lionel systems to control MTH PS2 or PS3 locos except in conventional mode,  or by removing the DCS electronics and substituting TMCC electronics.

Rider Sandman posted:

Some PW stuff is (to my eye anyway) closer to scale than others. One example (again, to my eye) is the PW GP7/9.  Assuming your question extends to diesels, the Legacy versions of these engines are some of my favorites and would look great in a PW-sized layout. 

Postwar F3s, GP7/GP9s, and FM Train Masters were scale sized. One of the modern equivalents with Legacy wouldn't look out of place with other postwar equipment. 

Lionel has produced several true postwar style Legacy locomotives with Pullmor open frame motors and Magne-Traction, but also equipped with Legacy Railsounds and other features. Here are a few examples.

http://www.lionel.com/products...diesel-2348-6-38323/

http://www.lionel.com/products...diesel-1261-6-28599/

http://www.lionel.com/products...-diesel-446-6-28297/

The pree 1955 NW2 EMD switchers were close to or at scale.

To add to what @GregR posted... there was a "Neil Young" series of Legacy F3s which looked just like postwar F3s but had can motors, upgraded sound and pretty much all of the other modern features.

I'm still waiting for Neil Young to have pity on us steam guys, and make a 2037 or a 2046 with Legacy and "scale-like" slow-speed performance.  Until he does, traditional steam with LionChief Plus is as good as it gets.

While Lionel doesn't offer many Post War style engines with Legacy like features you can make your own using Williams reproductions and Electric Railroad Cruise and Railsounds boards. Williams made a 773 type Hudson, Semiscale 2046 Hudson, 671 Turbine, and 726 type Berkshire. ERR Cruise will give you 100 speed steps vs 200 for Legacy and their Railsounds boards are Legacy Railsounds lite with just fewer sounds. Audio quality is just as good.

They also have F3s, FAs, NW2s, 44 Tonners, Geeps.

Pete

Pete all of the locos you mentioned are geared tall, and very fast runners- at that point, I would rather have the originals.  A friend of mine had a Williams 773.  With four rubber tires and a VERY tall gear ratio, even cruise control didn't help much with sharp curves.   The only Williams die-cast steamer with decent gearing is the "old timer" 4-6-0, and I'm just not into Turn-of-the-Century models like that.  Lionel's LionChief Plus steamers, especially the new 726 Berkshire are much better runners, and COULD be upgraded with ERR if desired.  

To get back to the Original Poster's question: a RailKing "baby" Turbine from a mid-2000s train set is a decent clone of the Postwar one.  It's geared lower, and runs better than the Williams reproduction.  If you want something a little bigger and more detailed, there's also the RailKing "bantam" sized Turbine.  Instead of trying to control Legacy with DCS or vice-versa, I would just gut it and upgrade to ERR and RailSounds.  Then you can run it reliably with a Legacy CAB-2 and 100 speed steps.  Sometimes you have to spend money to get what you really want.  My $.02.

I don't know Ted. My Williams 671 has only a current inrush thermistor in series with the motor to eliminate the jump at startup and  will run at 3 scale MPH when paced by an MTH PS2/3 engine.  I am sure it will run even slower with ERR Cruise. I have not put TMCC is any of my Williams steam engines but most of the Diesels have been upgraded. They all run slow and will still pull well over 30 cars without breathing hard.

Disclaimer here, All my Williams are pre Bachmann and purchased when you could get them under 125 bucks and ERR Cruise with sound could be had for 120 bucks. With current prices, not sure you could justify the upgrade.

Pete

Wow!  I swear I counted turns on a Williams turbine by turning the flywheel by hand.  The gear ratio was 13:1.  If the driving wheels are about 7/8" in diameter (guessing here), the motor would only be turning around 300 RPM at 3 scale mph.  Even with speed control, those little Mabuchi motors don't like to run that slow.

The RailKing is geared about 28:1, so it SHOULD run much slower, or have an easier time of it.  Maybe i'm mis-remembering, or perhaps Williams / Bachmann changed the gear ratio sometime during the production run to get more realistic performance.