Downloading Sound Files QUESTIONS

It generally takes me longer to set everything up than it dies to download a file, less than 6 minutes I believe.  Not sure about using DC, never done it.

It varies on the sound load file being loaded, but 6-9mins.

 

If using DC it can be 18-22VDC power source.  A filtered one is better.  Not all DC HO transformers will work right.  Amps have to carry the full load of the engine at idle with smoke on so that is about .7 to 1.1 amps plus .3 amps for the TIU.  So about 1.5 amps minimum.

 

DC connected same Fixed 1 to Fixed 1 but you want positive voltage on Red and Negative on Black.

 

I have occasionally gotten the error erasing a sector, sometimes three times before it clears.  If the load isn't going well the program slows it down.  But it the bar doesn't move for a minute or two, it is stuck.   I have never had one get stuck, but I have had them slowdown for a significant period.   G

Doug,

 

Some REV I3a TIUs had signal problems.

 

Dave

George, the transformer has to carry the load of the engine with smoke on, but the engine is supposed to be off for loading the sound file right? I hear the relay click upon applying power to the track, but I don't start the engine, and I am also leaving the DCS remote turned off.

 

Dave I have an I3 but not sure if it's an I3a...the sticker just says I3.

 

George I also tried reloading the sound file in that Dash 8 board you worked one. It gets to Writing Sector 1 and Erasing Sector 1, but just keeps repeating that same step and never goes anywhere on the progress bar.

 

I think I'll go back to my Dad's house and try the Rev L again, now that I have seen some progress with my Rev I3, but getting stuck with it.

You could try a feature rest of the tiu, this should clear  the tiu  out of any sound file failure attempts. Perhaps give you a fresh start.

 

A feature reset  lets the tiu retain it's address, I believe the only thing stored in the tiu is the recordings  of the record play back feature... maybe custom sounds as well. I would cycle tiu power after a feature reset. What loader are you using? BTW you can use any tiu channel   if fixed 1 is not up to par signal wise.

I am using the newest loader 2.3.

 

I don't have anything stored in my TIU as far as custom sounds so a Feature Reset I will try.

 

I have a track signal of 10 using Fixed 1. I thought about trying a different channel, but if I use Fixed 2 in and out....then the TIU won't power up. Doesn't the power have to go through Fixed 1 to get it to power up??

Doesn't the power have to go through Fixed 1 to get it to power up??

 

Yep, or use an aux power supply, but if fixed 1 has a good signal there's not much point.

 

I  also sometimes  reboot the computer , don't ask why or if it helps , i don't know... it shouldn't be this hard.

Feature reset of TIU changed nothing...still freezes up at ERASING SECTOR 4...

 

I have a BCR in this 5V GS4, would that make a difference?

Worth a shot. try the battery, I know I have other loader versions on CDs in the basement, I'm just not sure how to go about sending it... first I have to find them..... back in a while.

Doug,  The TIU takes .3 amps regardless of remote status.  At the end of the sound file the loader is going to start the engine with all default items on which includes smoke.  So you need a transformer that can support the load.  G

Ok well I didn't know that it started up the unit after the load was complete.. makes sense.

 

I'm ready to pull my fricken hair out. Trying the Rev L TIU, and got it to go past Esrasing Sector 4 FINALLY.... BUT now we are stuck on ERASING SECTOR 5.

I posted this on your other thread...

 

I really don't see your solution lying in using an older DCS or Loader Program. The problems that you're seeing are not likely to be in either piece of software.

 

Both the DCS 4.20 release and the  version 2.3 Loader Program have been through literally tens of thousands of DCS updates, and a similar number of PS2 and PS3 sound file transfers, without a single documented issue that required a modification to either piece of software.

 

I suggest that you look at other possible reasons for your problems:

• Operator error. Make absolutely certain that you're doing exactly what needs to be done at every step of the process. If you have a copy of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, refer to Part VIII - Software Upgrading and Remote Backup/Restore
• Try using a different cable between the TIU and the PC. If you're using a Serial to USB converter cable, make sure that it's drivers are loaded and are the proper ones for your version of Windows
• Make sure that you've installed the proper version of Microsoft's .NET software
• Make sure that no other applications a re running on your PC, most notably anti virus, PDA or modem/telecom software, or anything else that may be using the COM ports
• Use AC power with 16 gauge stranded wire. Also, don't mess with 25' coils of wire.  Both of these "techniques" are intended to be used primarily with Rev. L TIUs and/or PS3 engines. In all honesty, I've never had to use either of these to get a DCS upgrade to work or to transfer PS2 or PS3 sound files
• If you haven't already done so, try loading a sound file in a different PS2 engine.

If doing the above doesn't get it done for you, E-mail me and I'll send you Loader Program 2.3 and DCS 4.10.

Barry, I assumed because I was able to upgrade my DCS from 3.10 to 4.20, my USB to Serial cable and .NET was all correct because I had no troubles with that upgrade.

 

I've tried 3 different TIU's now. Rev I3 with 4.20, Rev L with 4.10, and Rev L with 4.20. It starts to download through the loader, but various errors and eventually freezes up, never getting past the 25% progress point.

 

I am using AC voltage, with 14g stranded wire to my test track.

 

Now because the download froze up, my GS4 has no sounds at all and is pretty much useless. When I try my Dash 8 that needed reloaded anyway, it gets stuck still at the first sector, going back and forth between erasing and writing. Never shows any progress percentage,

Barry, I just upgraded the rev L 4.10 to 4.20, including the remote. Did NOT have 1 error through the process. The TIU took about a minute and the remote took 2-3 minutes.

 

I can get that upgrade to work, but no luck with sound files. It has to be something I am doing....

Transferring sound files requires higher DCS signal strength, and processes that updating DCS software don't  need.

 

Like I said...

 

I suggest that you look at other possible reasons for your problems:

• Operator error. Make absolutely certain that you're doing exactly what needs to be done at every step of the process. If you have a copy of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition, refer to Part VIII - Software Upgrading and Remote Backup/Restore
• Try using a different cable between the TIU and the PC. If you're using a Serial to USB converter cable, make sure that it's drivers are loaded and are the proper ones for your version of Windows
• Make sure that you've installed the proper version of Microsoft's .NET software
• Make sure that no other applications are running on your PC, most notably anti virus, PDA or modem/telecom software, or anything else that may be using the COM ports

Once you get the process to work, your engines will correct themselves.

Have you tried a different serial port and/or a different computer?  The fact that you keep getting errors on different TIU versions suggests a common element.

 

 

My best guess is that the .NET software is either not installed or is the wrong version for the PC/Windows combination.

 

Perhaps Dave or Ted Hikel will chime in. Those two are true PC/Windows vs. DCS experts.

Having an  sound file down load fail  part way through is not that uncommon. Hang in there you'll eventually get it downloaded... I did find loader version 1.83 but I'm having trouble sending it. I could mail the CD if you still want it.

 

Anyway, do you have your older tiu, maybe try it, or another channel, or even alligator clips attached directly to the engine.  Yes it's a little strange you can load the tiu and remote software but not sound files.... good luck

Gregg,

Yes it's a little strange you can load the tiu and remote software but not sound files...

Not really. Sound file transfers are quite a bit more challenging than just about anything else in the DCS world.

John I have NOT tried a different pc or serial cable. I've been using my lap top, I7 processor with Windows 8. I bought the Gigaware USB-Serial cable from Radio Shack. It said compatible with Windows 7 and 8. It never required any additional drivers as Windows 8 recognized it right away. The loader always finds the Serial Port on Com 4, that has never created an error. I used my laptop because it is portable, otherwise I have to move everything into a different pc. I guess I could try the desktop, it has Windows 7.

I've pretty much figured out it's not the TIU because 3 different ones do the same thing. It has to be my pc, my serial cable, or .NET software. Everything I have tried, even programming on the layout itself, gave me a track signal of 10 on Fixed 1, even on Fixed 2 with Aux power to the TIU.

Here's the link to the Proto-Sound 2 Website with the loader and instructions:

 

http://www.protosound2.com/

 

The bottom one under "DCS NEWS" is the one I use.

I got those already Bob Thanks.

 

OK Windows 8 comes pre-loaded with .NET 4.0 or higher, and I do have it in my laptop and the box was checked showing it was enabled. I don't think the loader would of run at all without it. So I'm thinking that .NET is NOT my issue.  

I would try a different serial<->USB adapter, and also try it under Windows 7 or earlier.  I know that the first USB adapter I had wouldn't talk to the TIU, but then I found a Vantec one that worked.

Is it possible a screen saver or something  could be cutting in, Keep the mouse moving maybe.... yeah I know it sounds stupid.  

OK I bought the Gigaware adapter from Radio Shack that everyone listed the part # for here on the forum. Is there another recommendation from another source...Amazon?? Newegg??

 

Matt Jackson is gonna stop by on Sunday, on his way to the club. He's going to bring his equipment and give it a shot. I have to go get on a real train for a couple days, so I think I'll start from scratch on Sunday with a different pc.... unless Matt can get them reloaded 1st.

I use this adapter: Vantec USB to Serial Adapter - Model CB-USB20SR

 

It's worked with both the TIU and the Legacy command base from both my desktop with Windows 7 and my laptop with Windows 7, both are 64 bit systems.

 

Yep , Matt's very knowledgeable. You're in good hands. I've never met Matt but maybe someday I hope.

I don't understand why he load the tiu and remote software  using the cables he has

but not the sound files... May be next time try uploading the sound file to save on the computer just to see if it's going to work. If it fails nothing is  lost

I'm just answering his question Gregg, I agree that if he can load the TIU it would seem that his USB<->Serial adapter is working.

 

Hi guys,

 

Here's the short and sweet answer.  Do your sound transfers with Win XP or 7 and .NET 3.5 (no later).  Use DCS loader v2.20 or v2.30.  Use any generation TIU running DCS v4.20.  If your PC has a 9-pin serial port, use it.  If not, use the Gigaware USB/serial adapter from Radio Shack.  If loading a sound file to a 5 volt PS2 or PS3E+ engine use an AC transformer.  For all other PS2 and PS3 engines use a DC transformer.  All of the above represent a "best case" setup.  Many other configurations will work, but what I described above is ideal.

 

Here's a little explanation as it relates directly to Doug's trouble.  The current generation of DCS Loader software, beginning with DCS Loader 2.0, was developed using the Microsoft .NET 3.0 framework.  The most recent release, DCS Loader 2.30, was created using .NET 3.5.  If you go to the www.protosound2.com website and download the bundle with both the loader program and the .NET framework, the bundle comes with .NET 3.5.  There have been some significant changes made to the .NET framework in versions 4.0 and 4.5 to support the Win 8/8.1 "Metro" user interface and to improve support for multi core processors.  We saw a VERY similar issue crop up with the v1.83 version of the DCS Loader many years ago when Microsoft updated a system library (MSCONCTL.OCX) that broke some of the timing involved with loading sound files but still worked OK with TIU and remote updates.  I have not thoroughly tested the loader software to determine what library or libraries may be causing trouble.  However, I have seen the same behavior Doug is describing with other Win 8 machines and I'm highly suspicious that the changes in .NET 4.0 and later may be causing problems.  In fact, I have yet to see a Win 8 machine successfully load a sound file.  None of my own PC's are running Win8 and none ever will, so I don't get a lot of chances to test this scenario.   If someone else here on the forum has had luck with a Win 8 machine, please check what version of the .NET framework is installed on your machine and report back.  We have a little investigation left to do on this one.  Doug, if you're up for it, try downloading the DCS Loader bundle from MTH with .NET.  Uninstall the Loader and re-install using the new download.  Have the installer run the .NET 3.5 install and DCS Loader install and see what happens.

 

There is another possibility I can see reading through Doug's posts.  He said he let Win 8 use it's default USB/serial driver and never installed the driver that came with the Gigaware adapter.  The adapter comes with its own Win8 driver and it would be best to use that driver.  You can insert the CD that came with the adapter, then find the USB/serial adapter in the Device Manager and select "update driver."  From there, select "browse" and direct the system to search the CD for the driver.

 

As a public service to anyone running Win 8, you can purchase completely legal OEM licenses and installers for Windows 7 from MANY resellers.  I purchased and installed a copy from HERE earlier this week for a client for under $75 dollars.  Windows 7 is the only stable version of Windows currently available from Microsoft.  Windows 8 should be avoided, even if it means additional cost.

Dave thanks so much for the detailed response!

 

My Gigaware Serial Cable from Radio Shack did not come with a CD driver. It was new, in the package, said compatible with Windows 7 & 8, but there were no Drivers in the package. Maybe I can search online for any drivers that it might have.

 

After going through the MTH Loader instructions again, the link it gives to detect which .NET version is only for Windows 7. My Windows 8 machine is obviously very different, and I had to go to the Microsoft website to figure out how to detect the version of .NET. Windows 8 comes loaded with .NET 4.5, but also has the older versions loaded as well, but you have to make sure they are enable. Microsoft also noted that whatever software you are using should pop up a box asking you to use a older version of .NET if required by the particular software program. Obviously the DCS Loader does not do that..... hence Dave's statement of short and sweet answer is to use Windows 7.

 

I had the Loader bundle and tried to install .NET 3.5 but it wouldn't take. I'm guessing because I have a newer version already installed. I tried to uninstall .NET completely but its not even listed in the Control Panel Uninstall Programs List. I can go into the registry and disable 4.5, but that disables everything, and it still won't install from the Loader Bundle.  

 

After Matt comes over Sunday morning, I am going to do some more testing of my own. I do have a desktop with Windows 7, 64bit, and .NET 3.5 installed, so I'll take the MTH stuff to it and give it a try.  

 

Again, back to Dave's statement.....just use Windows 7 or XP! I'm determined to get it to work now...one way or another.

Hi Doug,

 

The Gigaware cable should have had the CD tucked in the packaging.  It's funny, I set up a new client with layout automation this week running on an iMac.  I had to install Parallels, Win 7, and the Gigaware driver on Thursday.  I made the mistake of throwing away the packaging for the Gigaware cable and had to dig the driver CD out of the trash a few hours later.  When I checked on-line Radio Shack did not have the drivers posted for either Win 7 or Win 8.  I don't have a disk at home, but if you need the Win 8 driver I can e-mail it to you Monday.

 

Hope things go better with your Win 7 machine.

 

Thanks again Dave. I already threw away the packaging so theres no getting it back now. I found some Gigaware hardware drivers on line on the Gigaware site, but I have to plug the cable in to let it auto scan for current drivers.

If you could email it on Monday, that would be fantastic.

Dave,  I recently had to purchase a new computer (6 months old) after using an XP machine for many years.  Mine is a HP All in One with Windows 8.  I shifted over to my Rev L TIU with the USB cable and have had no issues loading sound files.  Not one.  In fact I think I didn't even have to download the USB driver.  I also have an active Security program on all the time.  I am using the Dealer Loader.

 

The Microsoft.Net Frame Work has Versions 1.0 through V4.0.30319.

 

So at least one Windows 8 Machine works fine  G

Uploading a sound file is a much more intensive and long process.  G

Yeah I know. I've  probably done at least 50 over the years    but never have had any problems like this. I still have all the loaders on CDs someplace.

George,

Uploading a sound file is a much more intensive and long process.  G

Echo, echo, echo...  

Not really. Sound file transfers are quite a bit more challenging than just about anything else in the DCS world.

Barry,  Yes sound file transfers are, but being more specific uploads are the worst.  So much more time as the program has to validate all the data transfer.  I only did it once, and determined no need to do that again, when the files are available on the web!

OK well Matt Jackson just left, and he loaded the file to my GS4 no problem. 5v PS2 with BCR

 

We used:

 

My TIU Rev I3 w/4.20, 25' 14ga wire to the track, 180 watt AC brick

 

His Windows 7 64 bit pc and Serial cable adapter

 

So my problem is either my Windows 8 pc or my adapter.. or both! And yes the re-load of the sound file corrected the jerky slow speed performance in this locomotive.

 

Now the Dash 8.....that's a NO GO still but it's a board issue I'm quite sure. George I'll send you an email, as maybe I'll just ship the entire engine to you to get working again.