Drive/Worm Gears, Plunger Pin, and Plunger Plates

Joe,

I would like to help you, but you need to clarify. I can only assume that you mean the pick-up plate on the "bild-a-loco" motor. The plate needs to be firmly seated in order to properly retain the wheel bearings and assure proper mesh of the gears. There is no worm gear unless you are asking about modern reproductions.  

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA

Yes it is a modern reproduction with Proto sound 2

No, the pickup plate has nothing to do with gearmesh.  The contact area between the driven gear and motor can be checked/improved by shimming the motor on the motor mount.  The brass driven gear is sacrificial on the contemporary motors and I have replaced quite a few that run continuously on display/museum layouts.

Jon,

Do you know if the brass driven gear is available through the MTH Parts Dept? I have looked online for a part number but unable to locate it. If not, where I can find one as I have a 384 with the contemporary motor in it. 

Thanks!

Tim

Yes, they have the gear.  I'll get the part number Monday when I'm there.

EG-0000021, $24, you can order via the website.  These are sacrificial so I would suggest keeping a couple on-hand.

Jon,

Thank you for the help. It is much appreciated!

Tim

Jon G posted:

EG-0000021, $24, you can order via the website.  These are sacrificial so I would suggest keeping a couple on-hand.

Jon, same part number for a 390 and 400?

Joe

WHY such a poor engineering design?!    

What steps have been taken to correct this apparent design flaw? Would STEEL gears prevent this wear? Or some other alloy? Is this condition limited to P1 and P2 contemporary locos?

Are P3 locos immune from this design flaw? Does this issue affect O gauge engines, tinplate or otherwise?

JON: Would appreciate a reply. THANKS!

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

What do you use as a rule of thumb for greasing? About 30 minutes run time?

Joe

Properly shimmed to provide a good mesh, the Red n Tacky should last a long time. "A little dab'll do ya-use more, only if you dare..."

Think museum- 3-10 hours a day for 3-6 days a week. If they are stopped occasionally to cool, they'll last longer.

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

What do you use as a rule of thumb for greasing? About 30 minutes run time?

Joe

Joe

I usually only do a lap or two to test the loco and electronics. That way if there is an issue, I can return it as received. Once the test is done, The collector is removed, grease and oil go in. Never had an issue.

By the way, I enjoyed our visit Sunday. Same place next year maybe? I did not buy much, but got a few cool pieces.

Steve

Steve: THANKS for the reassurance! I only have one late P2 Blue Comet 400E and it runs properly with LGB high quality grease and LGB gel oil! My other two engines are P3 O gauge diesels. My two 408E locos, one 400E and a 390E are all traditional BAL engines - Lionel Classics and Tinplate Traditions.

Trainlover160 posted:

Jon G posted:

EG-0000021, $24, you can order via the website.  These are sacrificial so I would suggest keeping a couple on-hand.

Jon, same part number for a 390 and 400?

Joe

Same part number.

Tinplate Art posted:

Are P3 locos immune from this design flaw? Does this issue affect O gauge engines, tinplate or otherwise?

All MTH locos use brass worm driven gears. The loading of std gauge motors places greater stresses on the worm gears and the lack of a gearbox limits the amount of grease that could be used.  A harder material might be better if it doesn't sacrifice the motor's gear.

Thanks Jon,

I may have to buy a box of these little gems.

Joe

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

What do you use as a rule of thumb for greasing? About 30 minutes run time?

Joe

Joe

I usually only do a lap or two to test the loco and electronics. That way if there is an issue, I can return it as received. Once the test is done, The collector is removed, grease and oil go in. Never had an issue.

By the way, I enjoyed our visit Sunday. Same place next year maybe? I did not buy much, but got a few cool pieces.

Steve

 

Thanks Steve I enjoyed our visit as well and I am already looking forward to next year I'm hoping to make it down to the one in Glendale soon

Joe

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

Is this Red and Tacky #2? How often do you apply? I have always used White Lithium Grease.

Joe

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

Is this Red and Tacky #2? How often do you apply? I have always used White Lithium Grease.

Joe

Joe

Yes, #2. If an occasional runner, once a year or so. For those that I run a lot at shows, every couple of outings because by then it will have 10-20 hours on it.

Think I will piclose up some red and tacky tomorrow. Just out of curiosity have you ever had to replace the worm gear in a newer 400 e or a 384 e just wondering how they come off do they unscrew or is there a set screw?

Thanks Joe

Jon G posted:

EG-0000021, $24, you can order via the website.  These are sacrificial so I would suggest keeping a couple on-hand.

Jon, I ordered 2 or these gears. To my surprise, it was the larger of the 2 gears. 

Joe Gozzo

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

From the bad ones I've seen, it's less of a design flaw and more not greased well. The group I run with know you never do more than a test run before adding Red n Tacky.

Steve

Steve,

Is this Red and Tacky #2? How often do you apply? I have always used White Lithium Grease.

Joe

Joe

Yes, #2. If an occasional runner, once a year or so. For those that I run a lot at shows, every couple of outings because by then it will have 10-20 hours on it.

 

Steve,

Been looking for this grease, only to find the cartridges for the grease gun. Was hoping to find a smaller container, like a pint can with screw on lid. Only to find on amazon in the UK.

Joe

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve,

Been looking for this grease, only to find the cartridges for the grease gun. Was hoping to find a smaller container, like a pint can with screw on lid. Only to find on amazon in the UK.

Joe

Joe, I bought the cartridge type. I put it in a grease gun, then put the tip of a compressed syringe up tight to the grease gun and pump the grease in, filling it while it pushes the syringe plunger back.    Filling this way keeps air pockets out. I keep a couple of syringes handy, some at the bench and some in my travel kit. Won't run out for a long time.

Steve

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve,

Been looking for this grease, only to find the cartridges for the grease gun. Was hoping to find a smaller container, like a pint can with screw on lid. Only to find on amazon in the UK.

Joe

Here's where I got mine, it came in a couple days.  Smallish jar with a screw top. Will no doubt last a lifetime.Doesn't seem to come in anything smaller. There are many other listings as well.

david

hojack posted:

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve,

Been looking for this grease, only to find the cartridges for the grease gun. Was hoping to find a smaller container, like a pint can with screw on lid. Only to find on amazon in the UK.

Joe

Here's where I got mine, it came in a couple days.  Smallish jar with a screw top. Will no doubt last a lifetime.Doesn't seem to come in anything smaller. There are many other listings as well.

david

 

Thanks David!

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Trainlover160 posted:

Steve,

Been looking for this grease, only to find the cartridges for the grease gun. Was hoping to find a smaller container, like a pint can with screw on lid. Only to find on amazon in the UK.

Joe

Joe, I bought the cartridge type. I put it in a grease gun, then put the tip of a compressed syringe up tight to the grease gun and pump the grease in, filling it while it pushes the syringe plunger back.    Filling this way keeps air pockets out. I keep a couple of syringes handy, some at the bench and some in my travel kit. Won't run out for a long time.

Steve

Thanks Steve,

You are so resourceful. I had not even thought of that. I think I have seen the syringes with the curved plastic tip that narrows at the tip. I think if I bought the cartridge it would probably las forever, unless it dried out. I will give it a shot.

Thanks,

Joe

I wondering if this grease could also be used on plastic gears, as I have not seen the container up close?

Joe

If this gear set keeps wearing out, you might try having the worm gear silver plated. It acts as a lubricant.