Drones and Rail photography......

Dave,

I keep saying, "If I sell a few trains, I can buy a drone!".... I've been looking for a while.

If you decide to get a drone, chek out some of the reviews and Youtube videos on the DJI Mavic.  2 month backorder.... it's amazing!

OTOH, The restrictions for droning are getting tougher all the time. Won't be long before you can't fly within 1000' of a railroad train... you know, security and all that.

Ed

https://ogrforum.com/t...60#69425981520218460

eddiem posted:

OTOH, The restrictions for droning are getting tougher all the time. Won't be long before you can't fly within 1000' of a railroad train... you know, security and all that.

Ed

If people did not abuse drones, there would not be so many new laws against them. Sometimes we complain about restrictive laws, but we never seem to come down on the people whose irresponsible acts caused those laws to be enacted in the first place.

eddiem posted: 

...

OTOH, The restrictions for droning are getting tougher all the time. Won't be long before you can't fly within 1000' of a railroad train... you know, security and all that.

...

I'm very much in favor of these restrictions, because we're approaching the stage where everyone and their brother's cousin will have one.  And when the general public has access to this technology, it's a recipe for disaster -- especially at large events.

I can only imagine how many drones would have been flying around Horseshoe Curve when 765 came through a few years ago.   Thankfully, more readily available access to that technology came afterwards.

No doubt that the overhead perspective shots are unique to the eye right now.  But let's face facts, people... We don't live in a time where common sense prevails.  In fact more often than not, common sense is downright rare these days.  

So let's leave the drone photography to real pros who have been certified, licensed, or whatever... as opposed to putting it the hands of too many folks who have no clue what they're doing with the equipment.  I realize that may come across sounding a bit curmugeony to some, but that's my story... and I'm sticking to it.

David

 

So let's leave the drone photography to real pros who have been certified, licensed, or whatever... as opposed to putting it the hands of too many folks who have no clue what they're doing with the equipment.  I realize that may come across sounding a bit curmugeony to some, but that's my story... and I'm sticking to it.

David

 

So automobiles should only be driven by race car drivers; guns only in possession of military; and on and on.  What a philospophy you possess.

I guess we'll soon have a new classification of railroad pictures - the aerial wedgie...of course that classification might already exist....

Swipesy posted: 

... So automobiles should only be driven by race car drivers; guns only in possession of military; and on and on.  What a philospophy you possess.

Well, I'll gladly talk philosophy with you any time any day.  I've already seen some knuckleheads crash a drone or two at school sporting events, but thankfully neither the participants nor the observers were injured.

I don't use drones for this... But when I photograph basketball games, I use safety cables on all my overhead lighting equipment as an added precaution to protect everyone.  Safety is first and foremost in my mind.  I wonder how many camera enthusiasts think about that when they start dabbling beyond basic photography trying to get the shot any way they can.    I can tell you more stories than you'd care to hear or have time to listen to.

If you want to play with drones in your back yard or some remote area, that's fine.  But I'm referring to usage at public events where safety should always be a priority.  And right now, it's like the wild, wild West out there in terms of drone usage.  In lots of communities, there are no rules.  Or careless folks disregard the existing rules.  And it's a case where the technology is clearly outpacing common sense usage.  How's that philosophy working for ya?

David

As many of you know, I am a free-lance corporate pilot. I fly a King Air C90B, two different King Air B200s and a King Air 350 for their respective owners. These are twin-engine turbo-props. The 200s carry up to 8 people while the 350 can carry up to 11 people.

In the last year I have had two near-misses with drones when on approach to one of the smaller airports where we often go. It appeared that the drone operator was trying to get some air-to-air footage of our aircraft.

It is just a matter of time until one of these drones collides with an aircraft and people are going to die. Then, I hope they outright ban them ALL. Some of the idiots "flying" (I use the term very loosely) these things have no idea what they are doing or how dangerous they can be.

J Daddy,

Federal offense to shooting down a drone.. I have three, and enjoy them all within the scope of the law and FAA rules..

While I agree there are some idiots out there that do not fly with any common sense or rules. I live within 5 miles of a small local airport. Each time flying, I always call them before flying, and give them my location, where I plan to fly, my altitude, and how long. I usually get permission to fly within their space. After my flights, I call them back to let them know I am done and thank them.

I hope they do not ban them for those who do obey the rules and laws. But it only takes a few idiots to spoil it for the rest of it. 

Like everything else today, the drone use will  eventually be banned or sharply curtail their use. I do a lot of train photography and occasionally I see a good drone photo, a lot of them are boring.

Since it seems y'all know of what you speak, I have a question.  What is the difference between a remote controlled airplane and a drone?  I have a RC model aircraft club that has been flying RC planes for years near my house.  Some of the planes they fly are multi engine aircraft, real expensive stuff.  So I'm curious, what's the difference?

Any owner of a drone has to register them with the FAA and pass an exam that ensures they understand the rules and regulations that come with flying an unmanned aircraft over 0.55 lbs. In taking this exam and passing, they fully understand and comply with the rules that flying near airports without prior consent from the control tower, large crowds of people, moving cars on public roads, and at night is strictly prohibited and liable to fines and even jail time depending on how severe the offense. 

People will learn responsibility with these drones when they no longer use them correctly and someone reports them to the correct authorities and they receive the harsh offense penalties as enacted under the law by the FAA. 

I know multiple railfans who have drones and use them with the utmost safety in getting some rather spectacular shots. Its all about educating people who have drones about their dangers so they can take the proper measures to prevent accidents. 

Thought about it. Seen the nice photos, then, when I was chasing 765 across Indiana two years ago, someone was flying one above where I was videoing the train through town. Got, back to my hotel that evening, and sure enough, the **** Drone sound was all over the background of my video.

Totally turned me off. Glad there are more restrictions on them. Too many people having them will lead to issues, and accidents someday.

Not a fan here at all!

Mr Union Pacific posted:

Since it seems y'all know of what you speak, I have a question.  What is the difference between a remote controlled airplane and a drone?  I have a RC model aircraft club that has been flying RC planes for years near my house.  Some of the planes they fly are multi engine aircraft, real expensive stuff.  So I'm curious, what's the difference?

There's no difference to the FAA, they are both UAS. Do all of you have FAA registered UAS and numbers on the craft?

FAA>Unmanned Aircraft Systems>Fly for Fun

I agree with Safety First and Common Sense practices. When the lack of those elements eventually cause harm (World Series pitchers' hand or Rich and the passengers) the legislators will be hard at it.

Last week in Philadelphia a college student was flying a drone low over a protest in the streets. The locals had to track him down, arrest him and could only charge him with public safety violations. Many resources were wasted due to his lack of common sense and safety practices. Oh yeah, he was so dumb, he hadn't registered with the FAA. I am waiting to find out what they will do.

I don't believe that any of these UAS have altimeters. Even if they did, would the operators know how to interpret the data? It has been my observation that most folks have very poor judgment of distance - height, length or altitude.

" I fly a King Air..."

Gosh Rich, how long has the "King Air" been around. I know they were out there where I went to A&P school! A very classy looking airplane indeed!

Gene posted:

J Daddy,

 

Federal offense to shooting down a drone.. I have three, and enjoy them all within the scope of the law and FAA rules..

Yes, and so are woodpeckers, and this does not stop people from destroying them... when they become irritating and destructive they tend to be taken out...

Is it legal to use the words "free lance" and "corporate pilot" together in the same sentence?

Drones are not destructive at all. Drones have a place in todays business. They are invaluable for search and rescue. Perfect for aerial inspections as well. 

While I will agree, there are several pilots out there who think the rules do not apply to them. Those idiots will weed themselves out over time as the hobby gets expensive or when the FAA hands down a personal fine. The general public needs to know more about the rules and laws in place for them to have a better understanding of them. 

Not all drone pilot are irresponsible.

OGR Webmaster posted:

As many of you know, I am a free-lance corporate pilot. I fly a King Air C90B, two different King Air B200s and a King Air 350 for their respective owners. These are twin-engine turbo-props. The 200s carry up to 8 people while the 350 can carry up to 11 people.

The Beech King Air 350

In the last year I have had two near-misses with drones when on approach to one of the smaller airports where we often go. It appeared that the drone operator was trying to get some air-to-air footage of our aircraft.

It is just a matter of time until one of these drones collides with an aircraft and people are going to die. Then, I hope they outright ban them ALL. Some of the idiots "flying" (I use the term very loosely) these things have no idea what they are doing or how dangerous they can be.

And Rich, how do you feel about the two incompetent pilots and charter owners who flew their twin engine aircraft into the apartment building in Akron last November?

You can't legislate stupidity and it exists in some humans no matter what their profession maybe.

What got this subject off target was Dave's comment to ban all users from flying drones except professional photographers.  That is extreme.  Humans and mechanical devices, cars, trucks, planes drones all present a risk when in the hands of stupid people.  My point is you don't ban a mechanical device because a few are stupid.

I got OGR #289 just now. (great Ford small bock motor btw)

Is that a drone on the cover????????

Rich...where were you??????

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming...

How about a drone tour of our live steam TRAIN park.  Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be

I agree these get great videos of trains.  I don't agree with those that believe all operators will fly their sUAS responsibly.

As a 5,000 plus hour pilot, currently flying with the Civil Air Patrol, I agree with Rich.  I believe it is just a matter of time before one of these small unmanned aircraft system (sUAS), or drone, with camera causes serious damage, injury, or death due to the operator trying to get the best pictures.  No license is require if the sUAS is less than 55 lbs and not used for profit, and I assure you a 54 lb sUAS will do a lot of damage.  Nearly all R/C aircraft need skill to fly and usually needs to be close enough for the operator to know what the aircraft is doing, not so a sUAS.  A sUAS can be flown by most anyone, from anywhere, and GPS controlled ones can be flown out of sight of the operator.  And don't talk to me about how everyone will follow the rules; we already know sUSA operators don't follow them primarily because the operator is in no risk of getting hurt.  While a few airplane pilots have done stupid stuff, we follow the rules for the safety of our passengers and ourselves.  A reporter at the LA Drone Show stated there are more sUAS in the air than aircraft.  This should concern you.

That said, CAP is starting to use sUAS in our search and rescue work.  However, the FAA, local law enforcement, the incident commander, and others are coordinated with before flight.  For training at the airport, we will have constant radio contact with aircraft in the area so they know were we are at all times, not just that we are in the vicinity.

Well as often happens this has become a general 'Drone' discussion. In my original post I was just talking about a photo of a place I was familiar with, a train I ride often but how a drone gave it a entirely new perspective.  I have no desire to get a drone.......I'd just buy trains with that cash.  

As a retired analyst I will say this. Drones are not a fad or going away soon. The military has those drones the size of your hand. And there is some really great uses of them that save lives. So we better learn to deal with them.

How about a train photo???  How do you have a passing siding with only one turnout??? When it's a switchback!!! 

Train in photo will back into switchback, then the train we are on does same....then we go down hill while train in photo continues up hill. Thanks

There are several on Facebook. A man in Lima Ohio has several. If I had mine before retirement, I would have had a lot of them, doing all kinds of photography and videos.  I do wish I was still working in that aspect.

I must say that if I was out along the rail lines taking photos and especially videos, i would find a drone buzzing around very annoying. So far it hasn't happened. A 10 gauge goose gun would be one  solution but the best would be jamming equipment.

CAPPilot posted:

...  A reporter at the LA Drone Show stated there are more sUAS in the air than aircraft.  This should concern you.   ...

 

Very timely receipt today of my December 2016 issue of Professional Photographer magazine... there's a graph comparing the "explosive" growth of commercial drones vs. the very gradual growth of commercial manned aircraft over time.

According to the USDOT and FAA (as of October 1, 2016):   320,000 manned aircraft have been registered over the course of 100 years (since 1916).  550,000 Small Unmanned Aircraft System (sUAS) registrations have been logged in just the 9 months since the FAA began its Small Unmanned Aircraft System registry during late December 2015.

David

jim pastorius posted:

I must say that if I was out along the rail lines taking photos and especially videos, i would find a drone buzzing around very annoying. So far it hasn't happened. A 10 gauge goose gun would be one  solution but the best would be jamming equipment.

Beats a gall-dern Helicopter!

I would think if you are flying a drone plus trying to take some decent photos it would  be difficult.  When I am taking photos that is what I do. No multi-tasking.

Big Jim posted:

Gosh Rich, how long has the "King Air" been around. I know they were out there where I went to A&P school! A very classy looking airplane indeed!

The King Air made its first flight on January 20, 1964. They have been continuously produced and upgraded ever since. There is a reason why Beech still makes the King Air while Cessna no longer produces the Conquest and Piper quit making their Cheyenne. The 350 I fly trues out at 310 knots in the high 20s burning 100 gallons per hour. That's entry level jet (Citation Mustang) performance, with a LOT more room and payload.

AMCDave posted:

I got OGR #289 just now. (great Ford small bock motor btw)

Is that a drone on the cover????????

Rich...where were you??????

LOL! Good one, Dave. From a modeling standpoint, I thought the use of an O scale drone on a model train layout was pretty unique.

My objections to these drones are the dangers they represent to aircraft...aircraft with PEOPLE in them. It is just a matter of time before a drone collides with an aircraft and causes enough damage that the aircraft crashes. Then the proverbial crap will hit the fan.

jim pastorius posted:

I would think if you are flying a drone plus trying to take some decent photos it would  be difficult.  When I am taking photos that is what I do. No multi-tasking.

I have a phantom 3 professional series quadcopter. It's easy to take pics or videos while flying. I have a 7 inch hd screen in front of me that allows me to see what the copter See's in real time.

OGR Webmaster posted:

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AMCDave posted:

I got OGR #289 just now. (great Ford small bock motor btw)

Is that a drone on the cover????????

Rich...where were you??????

LOL! Good one, Dave. From a modeling standpoint, I thought the use of an O scale drone on a model train layout was pretty unique.

My objections to these drones are the dangers they represent to aircraft...aircraft with PEOPLE in them. It is just a matter of time before a drone collides with an aircraft and causes enough damage that the aircraft crashes. Then the proverbial crap will hit the fan.

I fully understand  Rich......it was just very funny that a day after my OP I open my new OGR....and there it is!!!! Take care up there.

OGR Webmaster posted:

AMCDave posted:

I got OGR #289 just now. (great Ford small bock motor btw)

Is that a drone on the cover????????

Rich...where were you??????

LOL! Good one, Dave. From a modeling standpoint, I thought the use of an O scale drone on a model train layout was pretty unique.

My objections to these drones are the dangers they represent to aircraft...aircraft with PEOPLE in them. It is just a matter of time before a drone collides with an aircraft and causes enough damage that the aircraft crashes. Then the proverbial crap will hit the fan.

Rich, Your concerns are very real. Most people don't realize the capability of today's quadcopter's. I fly professionally hence my email. My copter is a Phantom 3 professional series with ultra 4K high definition stabalized camera platform. These copters are capable of flying straight up over a mile and can be flown in an area of five square miles from the operator and yes there are nuts who have proven this as you can find them on YouTube. I only fly search and rescue when someone falls in the gorge or a missing person search. Like almost anything they can be used for good endeavours or abused for bad one's.

jim pastorius posted:

I must say that if I was out along the rail lines taking photos and especially videos, i would find a drone buzzing around very annoying. So far it hasn't happened. A 10 gauge goose gun would be one  solution but the best would be jamming equipment.

Its actually a lot quieter than you think. As long as its about 150 feet off the ground, the train noise typically will drown out the noise of the blades spinning. The noise of drones only becomes a problem when a hobbyist has the drone close to the ground getting shots which kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion. 

I have a Cessna 172 and have had 2 near miss events while on approach to an airport. I think idiots are parking them next to runways not realizing they are in the flight path.

i fly RC airplanes, but would not do so in and around a full sized airport. 

Most of the drone flyers I've met remind me of skateboarders. Rules aren't meant for them and they're defiant of any authority.

Yes there are unmanned aircraft being flown in our aitspace. They're flown by fully rated pilots on IFR flight plans. 

Can you tell I don't like drones?

Photography and videography from a drone is very east and not really multi tasking. The drone I have you can set up shots and the drone flies along a route, at speed and boundaries that the pilot sets. As it flies itself, you can focus on the object at hand. Very easily set up. Never fly over people, or within 5 miles of an airport, or helipad, without first gaining permission. No flying after dark, or above 400', and always in line of sight.

I have read that there are anti-drone drones  !!

Gene posted:

Photography and videography from a drone is very east and not really multi tasking. The drone I have you can set up shots and the drone flies along a route, at speed and boundaries that the pilot sets. As it flies itself, you can focus on the object at hand. Very easily set up.

As I stated, very easy to fly so most anyone can do it, and as Gene stated "the drone flies along a route".  In other words, the sUAS operator is looking at his camera for the best picture and not really looking at where the sUAS is going.

My issue is not with the commercial operator who has taken training to get his license, but with the hobbyist who opened his/her sUAS Christmas morning, registered it that afternoon, and started flying it the next day looking for that perfect train shot.  Then he/she thinks to themselves "I wonder how high this will go.  I will be quick and nobody will know".  Except the medivac helicopter flying at 500 feet.