Disclaimer: I am not an expert on E units. The F40PH pre-dates me by 6 years, so take this for what it is, a photo comparison between the 2 models. There may be some things that appear to be rivet counting, rest assured, I'm not counting that closely. I aim to be within enough rivets to hold the thing together. I did not drink the Orange kool-aid this morning, nor did I take the Purple elixir. My attempt here is to be as unbiased as possible (I did buy both brands after all).
This comparison compares somewhat of an apple to an orange, but both of these models are from the most recent run of E's put out by both camps. In the purple corner, we have 20-20352-1, an Amtrak set. In the Orange corner, we have 6-39612, the Armor Yellow Unicorns.
I didnt do a whole lot of measuring, they're both of the same model (technically one's an 8 and one's a 9, but the difference in real life is the headlight lens and the internals, so lets call it good). The MTH unit weighs in at 4 lbs, 15 oz. The Lionel unit is 4 lbs, 9oz. Despite the slight difference the MTH unit feels like it has a good bit more heft to it. Both units have 2 motors, 8 powered wheels, 4 traction tires. MTH has blind inner wheels on both trucks, Lionel has 6 flanged wheels in each truck. Coupled to their respective trailing A, the gap between MTH units is 1 3/8". Lionel is 1 1/8". The diaphragms on the rear ends do not make contact with one another on either set.
I know I said I wasnt going to count rivets that close, but just for effect, here is a photo of each of the prototype units, just for the sake of seeing how close the models are:
Amtrak 216 is Ex-RF&P
UP 949 (In Service, not heritage fleet)
Railpictures direct link for big image
The Roof:
Starting with the roof seems like an odd place, but this is where the major difference lies. Lionel opted to step up the game, by putting roof details, specific to road names, on the model. The end result is a fantastically well done, very business-like appearance that adds a lot to the look of the model. The one dissapointment to me is the steam generator area in the rear. As there's nothing underneath it (except the Legacy control switches and battery area), it seems like an opportunity was lost to do something really cool, like add another smoke unit that intermittently pops off the boiler exhaust. Other than that, the roof is pretty good. Its missing the beacon, although from the 2 pictures above, that may have been an add on post-delivery. The MTH roof is generic. Fans are see through, which is nice, but IMO, the fan shroud detailing on the lionel model is better. The only thing that attempts to be road specific is the horn, which is half right. The horn should be offset to the engineer's side, with a single chime horn facing backwards on the fireman's side. Also missing are the exhaust silencers. Same beef can be had with the steam generator area here.
Nose:
The first thing that jumps out is the complete lack of ladder rungs and grab irons on the nose of the Lionel unit. They're clearly there in the photos, I'm not sure how they managed to get completely overlooked. Pilots are fairly plain on both, the added brake hose on the Lionel pilot is a nice touch. Pilot to nose gap on the Lionel is less, but still present and somewhat obvious. The Markers on the Lionel unit are recessed, as opposed to LED's poked through the shell on the MTH unit. Lettering is crisp on both, I cant find any paint issues with either unit. The previously mentioned complaint on the forum that the nose on the lionel unit is somewhat apparent. The edges of the pilot do extend beyond the shell a very slight bit. Only really noticeable from the top. The MTH pilot fits well, basically flush with the sides of the shell. Lionel has separately applied the grab irons on either side of the anti-climber, MTH's are add on wire parts, but very recessed into the body. The horn on the MTH model is a bit clownish. I dont know why they put this huge thing on it, as the other set of MTH E's that I own, has a much more appropriate size horn. My main problem is with the height of the horn. A problem I have with both of them (and this is one of those rivets), despite the move to LEDs, they still continue to use a single LED for the headlight. Both of these should have dual sealed beam headlights. This should be no problem to do with some small LEDs. Again, a missed opportunity to do something little that would have a big impact.
The rears:
Not much going on here as the intent is obvously to couple the units back to back. The Lionel diaphragm is 2 pieces and one piece slides inside the other. Given that they dont contact, it seems kinda useless. Lionel includes a back door in the shell with a window, the MTH door is molded into the diaphragm. MTH includes some extra hose detailing on either side of the coupler, lionel did not. Both rear end couplers are dummies.
Sides:
The body detailing on both models is quite good, main difference is in the grill work. MTH uses an etched metal grill that is separately applied, the body framework is molded into the shell and is clearly visible through the grill. Lionel's grill work is very nicely done, but is not see through, as is very apparent in the prototype photos above. The fuel tank areas on both models are well done. They differ slightly in their painting, but are about the same. The doors open on both models. It should stick out like a sore thumb that the MTH unit has portholes where it should not. The first set of Amtrak E's they did, they got it right and chose porthole unit numbers. This time they got it wrong. A fairly bad research oversight IMO, considering with Amtrak, they had a pick of just about every variation possible.
Trucks:
At first glance, the Lionel trucks look quite nice. Lots of detail, the cast in detail is crisp and pronounced (silver paint also helps), and they just look massive... BUT, the inner and outer axle have the older style boxed journals. Wrong for this particular model. Now, you can look around the internet and you WILL find E-9's with these trucks, but they seem few and far between. I suspect the real ones were trade ins of older E's and parts were recycled. My guess is lionel did the same thing, and used E-7 trucks. I looked around a bit at the road names done in the first run, and it looks like they all used the newer style Hyatt bearings. I'd love to know what the deal is here, and whether lionel actually does make the correct sideframes.
MTH's trucks, do have a full set of Hyatt bearings, the detail is pretty good, and the truck looks to be a completely different style. Things like brake shoes dont stand out as well when painted black, but the trucks are decently done.
Ladders on both units are truck mounted, and just stamped out. The cab door area is much crisper on the lionel model.
Operationally, they both run well. The lionel sound is far more dynamic, but I find the volume somewhat weak in comparison to some other engines I have. All the bumps, squeeks and bangs that got thrown into the sound file are really cool. As far as pulling power, I'm not going to compare it, but since MTH puts 2 more motors in the trailer, I think its safe to say who would run away with that title. That being said, I've seen a video on the forum of someone's lionel unit pulling a full GGD columbian set, so they're obviously capable engines. It would be nice to have a B unit to go with it, preferably with motors and a sound system.
The MTH sound is fairly typical for PS3. Its good, and it can use a bit more bass as usual. The add ins like the random cab chatter and the PFA sequence are definite positives over the Lionel units.
For the price, the value definitely goes to MTH. You get a B unit, and 2 extra motors, for less than what lionel sells the Power/dummy set for. At the same time, MTH hasnt gotten rid of the annoying tether yet (or moved it somewhere that you can easily connect it). I think MTH's tooling is showing its age. For as many E-8 runs as they do, I think these should be upgraded to new 3/2 rail tooling, with the fixed pilot option and upgraded detailing.
Both paint jobs look correct to me. As an aside, to date MTH has done Amtrak E's twice, both sets have been different, and both sets have been correct in their lettering style and placement (which DID differ). They also did at least try and put the right set of horns on, for the cab numbers they chose, presumably within the confines of what their tooling allowed. Lionel's models also vary the model of horn, and they've varied the roof detailing as well.
IMO, Lionel has raised the bar for E-8/9's. I can find faults with both models, part of me wants to get on lionel more for it because of the $929 MSRP, which is knocking on Scott Mann's door. The fact that lionel went all out on the roof then stopped just rubs me the wrong way. MTH may not be 100% accurate, but is consistently generic throughout.
I'm not going to tell you which ones to buy. Obviously I bought both (actually more than one set of each brand). If MTH makes the ones you want, buy 'em. If Lionel makes the ones you want, buy em. The street prices on the newest runs (14V2 and 14 signature) are about equal if you can deal with no B unit.
Thats all I've got, if anyone has more, feel free to add it. I meant for this to be critically constructive...
