Early Japanese NYC Hudson J3A brass import

Wonderful historical post as always Carey!

The interiors in the Fisher cars look great!

There are so many intriguing things on your layout it is hard to concentrate on the stuff that is rolling past.

Keep me in mind if you see a junk Kasiner with that window arrangement.

Great locomotive and train Carey, those Fisher cars are amazing, especially that "Creek" series ob!  WOW!!! I'm curious about what name that J3A was imported into the US under

Bob, are you looking for one of those Kasiner 22 duplex roomettes?

Who was the importer ???? Now that is a very good question ....

There seems to be very little info out about the early days of Japanese (pre 1950+-)  production ...beyond International ...which had Minari-san through his loose grouping of assorted talented model builders ...produce a variety of scale models ...some good some not so good depending on the builder.

There was a small cottage industry of custom builders that did one offs and supply some high end Japanese hobby shops ...many times aiming at the US service men stationed in Japan.

Hopefully one day more information will surface ...to add names ,dates ,& etc

The Hudson is one of 4 engines  that recently surfaced at the Indy show ...coming out of a collection in,Ohio..where the,owner had passed away 40+ years ago.

Unknown if he may have bought the engines originally ...or just part,of a huge collection .

The 4 engine group,

N&W Y6B, NYC Hudson & Mohawk, and a PRR K4 in 17/64ths .

All engines seem to have been built by same builder ...

Open frame motors, heavy cast bronze chassis , open gearing , hand lettered ,

Mohawk has a mechanical reverse ...

So all typical of late 40's - early 50's construction .....all have a very small label on ash pan " Product of Japan"

Max Gray / KTM ..begins inporting 1954...with enclosed gear box ...and lighter frames than on these beasts .

So still many unanswered questions .

Cheers Carey

Can you post a picture of the bottom of the engine ?

Fabulous. Interesting how around the same time (perhaps) that these magnificent models were being made, the other end of the spectrum: cheap, "Made in Japan" stuff was considered junk...

Mark in Oregon

Carey is capturing some obscure history.  Who knows - we may someday get a good book on O Scale history.  Mack Lowery will surely be a chapter.  Ohio was a hotbed of scratchbuilt activity as well.  Gil Stovicek was part of that group.

Yes, Pete.  I find myself intrigued with those up/down windows. But I have blanks, and if I ever get desperate, an hour on the end mill will produce one.

@bob2 posted:

Carey is capturing some obscure history.  Who knows - we may someday get a good book on O Scale history. 

Authored by: Carey Williams and Bob Turner, perhaps? 😁

Mark in Oregon

PS: and maybe a couple of guys from the MTJ site...🙂

Carey I was wondering If we have seen the K4 in this group of four, or is that a stay tuned to this channel situation. I was also wondering If it's possible that these models my have been pilot models leading to KTM production later on.  There's just something about them that feals like they belong to that family ancestry some how. It also seems these four models are representitive of early adds I remember for KTM. It's an interesting mystrey, to bad builders didn't sign there work.        cTr....( Choose the Right )

Hello here are some photos of the bottom of the Hudson.

I did not buy the K4... so it's still out in the Free World somewhere.

I think these predate Max Gray and KTM days ...

Need to find a Japanese collector that's well-schooled on the early manufacturers.

Cheers Carey

There history screams out find my story! There certainly quality builds, and surly some one knows, or remembers something. I wonder if there's a Japanes modellers Forum you could show them to?    cTr....( Choose the Right )

Yes I've been hoping to tap into some Japanese groups or collectors with the various Facebook sites but so far nothing there were active Japanese builders prewar and also post-war but most of what they made remains a mystery

@Carey Williams posted:

Yes I've been hoping to tap into some Japanese groups or collectors with the various Facebook sites but so far nothing there were active Japanese builders prewar and also post-war but most of what they made remains a mystery

Perhaps get into contact with JAM ( Japanese Association of Model Railroaders ) …..there’s quite a large contingent of Japanese model railroading,…so much they have their own annual convention……to be sure somebody there might can point you in the right direction,…….might have to brush up on your foreign language skills Carey,…😉

Pat

Thank you for pointing out JAM ...I'll send an email ......with luck they may someone who knows someone who knows something

Cheers Carey

Carey, if you have the TCA quarterly mags form the 90's they used to have talk sessions with various long time heavy hitters and they would discuss their recolloctions of the early history and I seem to remember some talking about the early brass stuff from time to time. Also we know you can find very early International ads as early as 1940 or so sellign the early brass signals and such.  Obviously they could not import during the war, but would be curious to know if they may have started in the late 30's up to Dec. 7 1941..... I think I remember reading the brass market really started with one off's when Japan was still occupied and the various skilled craftsman would cut up brass shell casings to make trinkets for the soldiers of which O scale trains quickly became popular.  So many could have been quickie small runs and infinite variations.  I would think anything that had Japan stamped ont he bottom was imported though.  Would be an interesting history to wade through though.

This looks like a Max Gray that has ben regard.

Did Max Gray use open gearing?

The examples I've seen have always had an enclosed gearbox.

Cheers Carey

So the info from Scott makes it sometime 1952 on?? The early Max Grey had brass gear housing. there where some issues with these boxes, gears etc. It could be someone resolved to fix these issues in the simplest way possible???? em! nothing like a good mystery A!       cTr....( Choose the Right )

Max Gray had a all brass gearbox that was hard to service, so someone geared this one, I guess.

Hello I found some Max gray literature from 58 claiming a new gearbox unknown what was the old gearbox and what is the new gearbox this is beyond what I collect.

All the examples I've seen on the internet have always been the enclosed gearboxes few variations but always enclosed.

So more research is needed to figure out what the earliest Max Gray's may habe had ....

Any big time Max Gray collectors out there ?????

Cheers Carey

Most gravitate to USH. The K4 by Max was better than USH, but most of the rest were improved.  The AC-12 was dramatically improved.

Beware of brass crankpins on early Max.  Easy to replace if you are a machinist.

The AC-4 and AC-9 went to $4000 during the upswing, but after Sunset, they dropped back to $1200 each.  Not sure where they are today.