Eastern Divisions new website

YEA!!!!   LOOKS GREAT!!!

Nice.  Did you see The York Train Meet Photo Gallery?  (no joke)

Yes, there is even a shot in the gallery from one of the late, great Thursdays at Fridays gatherings.

Andy

Yep. I took that Shot. It's Ben John S. and Sean.

Jim D

It's excellent!

The Thursday at Friday's pic of John, Sean & Ben is great.......I'm hoping Sean and Ben will make April York......

Peter

I like the new website.

Very nice. Easy to find things.

The new website is a big improvement for the Eastern Division. What is now badly needed is for the Eastern Division to open up the York meet to the general public. Many TCA members only join just to attend York. Now that the dues have risen to an exorbitant $50/yr; the admittance to ED York is a very high price. AFAIK there is no rule that prohibits the admission of non-members to chapter meets. Some chapters are already doing this. Time to change with the times ED.

Marty,

Actually, the TCA could sell 1-day memberships to the general public, if they were so inclined. That wouldn't upset the tax collectors applecart, would it?

I would suspect it would.  Government is greedy.  Once you make that change I would venture to guess that they would rewrite the agreement to make all 3 days a tax nightmare.

Only the EDTCA knows the terms of the agreement. I'll leave it to them to determine if they can do this or not.  In the past they have explained the reason time and time again.

Error on this page ==>  Calendar of Events

OGR Forum at TGI-Friday’s Restaurant  - Thursday, 7:00 PM, 1411 Kenneth Rd., York, PA - Open to everyone!!

I submitted a problem report on their website

quote:

Many TCA members only join just to attend York.

I believe you are correct.
Sales tax issues aside, open York to the public, and the TCA will go bankrupt as membership numbers drop.

Does make you wonder, doesn't it Marty?  How many times do people have to be given the official and perfectly logical explanation, not to mention the fact that a whole lot of members--almost certainly a significant majority--want to keep things just as they are.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a members-only event for this or any other organization of its type.

The TCA Eastern Div. members meet does not really need public participation, in my opinion, but the simple fact is the meet is already open to the general public.  All they need do is obtain a TCA membership and pay to attend the meet--both activities can be accomplished right there on site.

I guess that I'm the one to upset the apple cart today. Shortly after my comments were made they were passed on to the Eastern division. I received a call from Sam Geiser this morning. Sam is on the ED BOD is a very nice guy and wants to hear what other meet attendees and participants have to say. Sam reiterated that unfortunately the meet cannot be opened up to the public but acknowledged that the Eastern Division is between a "rock and a hard place" to maintain attendance at York. You must join TCA, then pay ED just to get in; a big hit for some in bad economic times. Invited guests who even support the hobby are only allowed one visit. Does that make sense? 

The demographic of those that buy the trains is not growing but shrinking. That's reality. New people need to come into the hobby and a closed event can only do so much. Apparently the non-profit status of the organization for tax reasons requires the meet to be closed to the general public. I guess that we all have to accept this but  if we just do so passively then we can expect the York and TCA numbers to continue to decline.  Quote me on this at the end of 2014 and please prove me wrong!

As I posted earlier, there are a significant number of people who admit they only belong to the TCA to attend York. Therefore, opening York to the public would only hasten the TCA's decline (as those people let their membership lapse).

It does not take a crystal ball to tell that interest in both collecting and operating Toy trains is falling off. Opening the York show to the public would have no effect on falling interest. Its been a long time since real trains have captured the public's imagination, and since toy/model trains were considered to be a high tech toy. It seems that most folks don't value the skills that can be learned pursuing this expensive hobby.

About time and looks great , the other website was hideous.

Ok I have suggested this as a solution before.  This is not an argument to open York to the public, just a possible compromise.

• Keep York membership as is
• offer a $10 one day pass to just the orange, purple, brown and black halls to the general public.
• offer an initial one year membership for new members to the TCA for $35.00 to gain  entrance to member halls
• Now, the halls that can be taxed are still taxable, and the member halls are still members only, and remain non-taxable.

we keep York primarily a members only event, BUT draw new members into the fold by offering them a smaller cost to test the waters.

ANY QUESTIONS?????

The York Meet is just one event out of hundreds--perhaps even a thousand or more--train-related events held throughout the nation every year, and for the most part throughout the course of the year.

This business of focusing on York as the be-all and end-all in "growth" of the hobby is sheer nonsense.  The public, if they are interested, have many train SHOWS they can attend which offer a whole lot more for them than a train MEET made up primarily of "stuff" stacked up on tables.  Interest in the hobby is far more likely to be sparked by a train SHOW than it is by a train MEET.

And if York was to become anything but a member-oriented meet for serious hobbyists, I imagine a good many of those truly dedicated hobbyists (those are the folks who belong to the TCA for more than just the chance to attend York) would rather quickly determine that attendance was no longer all that meaningful (myself included).

Is growth in the hobby tapering off?  Yep, sure is, by just about any measure. 

Does that mean TCA membership will continue to decline?  Yep, sure does. 

But the solution is not in trying to artificially build interest in the hobby/TCA on the back of one special members-only event (a solution sure to alienate many existing members).  The answer is in finding creative ways to deal with financial planning and fiscal realities in the world that is our evolving hobby.

As far as the Eastern Div. of the TCA is concerned:  The best thing they could possibly due would be to allow photography at the event so a word-picture of the world's largest toy train meet could be widely circulated and the event itself promoted.  Logical step; no cost involved; and easy to implement. 

Marty the MEMBER areas would be closed to the public

Mike

There are member tables in all of the halls.  I don't think the PA Tax folks make a distinction anyways.  They look at it as a meet in whole not part meet, part train show.

I would be surprised if the EDTCA hasn't thought of ways to do all that has been suggested but know they are bound by the agreement with the state tax folks.

All these one-day membership proposals remind me of a certain "gentlemen's club" that was on Long Island (NY) long ago. 

Nothing like tweaking the nose of a tax department that was willing to give some leeway.

So far, every suggestion to find a way to open the show up to the public has been made many times before.

TCA Southern Division?

Maybe the regulations are different in Florida.

Maybe the show is small enough for the Fla. tax department to look the other way.

How many people have taken up the hobby or joined the TCA because they were able to attend a TCA Southern Division show?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  And, thus far and over a number of years, body has ever convinced me that it's broke.

Could more be done by the TCA, the Eastern Division, and every other organization and devoted individual to increase public awareness of, and involvement in, the hobby?  Yep, probably could be!

But the York TCA Eastern Division Meet is just one activity among many in this hobby, and the evolution of the hobby is by no means dependent on, or likely to be significantly impacted by, any changes to the structure and operation of this popular member-organized and member driven event.

The ED is a good organization and they do a great job at York. It takes something like 200 volunteers to put this meet on.. After speaking with Sam Geiser this morning at great length I am convinced that all that can be done is being done. The problems lie with the Pennsylvania Department of Revenue and the tax exempt status of the ED. I may be wrong about this but this means that if the general public is invited, ED loses its tax exempt status and sales and event taxes would need to be collected and paid on all admissions and more. We can debate the benefit of inviting the general public but things are not going to change, at least for now.

As I've said before, there are 24 train shows per year that are within a 2-hour drive from York...approx. 10 of those less than 45 minutes away. The January Greenberg show is in the Orange Hall.

How much good will would a policy of letting people on the grounds, and then saying,

"you can't go in this building, but you can go in THAT building" generate?  Not a whole

lot.  And then the policing of the doors would have to be beefed up.  Letting the general public in, in a tax greedy eastern state, would force the Meet to move to Nevada or some other sales tax free state (if there are any left)  Think it's a long drive to York now?  How about "Reno" twice a year?

quote:

Letting the general public in, in a tax greedy eastern state, would force the Meet to move to Nevada or some other sales tax free state

How about New Hampshire?!?

I'm pretty sure the TCA Eastern Division train meet isn't held in York to escape any tax implications.  But I am just a little certain it's held in York to be close to a majority of the Eastern Division members, since they sponsor and operate it.  Just a little…..

Besides, Reno, Nevada is part of the Northern California Division (Nor-Cal) of the TCA, which already hosts the Cal-Stewart Meet. 

Makes sense to me!    

There is absolutely nothing to preclude some other division from hosting a similar meet in some other state if they care to…nothing, that is, except the ability to muster enough dedicated volunteers to conduct the event.  And we all know that ain't gonna happen in this "me first" society of ours today.

Every one of us who attend the York Meets should thank our lucky stars for the tireless volunteers who have worked hard to put on this semi-annual event over a good number of years.  Hopefully, most of them don't read the incessant second-guessing of their efforts that goes on in some places.

Alright, I'll say it. You guys using the acronym "ED" cracks me up every time  

As for the website, they did a great job as it is far more functional and aesthetically pleasing. My only observation though is you can still tell it was made from a generic web template and could benefit from a couple more train themes in the background.

quote:

There is absolutely nothing to preclude some other division from hosting a similar meet in some other state if they care to…nothing, that is, except the ability to muster enough dedicated volunteers to conduct the event.  And we all know that ain't gonna happen in this "me first" society of ours today.

Its a lot easier to tell others what they should do, as opposed to doing something oneself.

My favorite is telling the modular groups to lower the layout, remove the ropes or Plexiglass, and let total strangers "play" with your trains.

Pretty simple, really.