Easy way to spot Lionel scale steamers???

Dave, Do you have an item number. I think the only scale Mikes were the ones made around 1999-2000 based on a Southern prototype but also lettered for NYC and few others. These have TMCC Odyssey and Railsounds. Then they brought out the Legacy USRA Light Mikados based on the K-Line engine around 5 years ago and of course the recent Heavy Mikes with Legacy. Those are the only scale ones I am aware of.

Pete

One Mike is 6-18079....

But what I really want to know is there a method of telling if a loco is scale or not??

I'm looking at a bunch of different locos.....Thx

 No easy way that I know of. They do divide their catalog between "Traditional" and "Standard" but I don't think the item number gives a clue.

18079 engine is scale, weighs a ton with a large Pittman motor, Odyssey, and wireless tether. Fine engine.

Pete

Usually 180xx, 280xx and 380xx were Collector Series large steamers.  After running out of 380xx numbers next came the 111xx up to 114xx series.  After that there doesnt seem to be any logic to the part numbers.

The term "Standard 0" is supposed to mean scale. So if it was cataloged as Standard 0, it's probably scale or near-scale. Sorry, that's the best I can do, for reasons already mentioned by previous posters. As already mentioned, the old Southern-based Mikado and the K-Line based USRA Mikados are scale. I have one of the USRA Light Mikados; it's exquisitely detailed and the sounds are some of the best I've ever heard. 

This drove me crazy when I first became interested in scale locomotives. I usually go to the Lionel product page for locomotives and use the advanced menu to sort by 'Standard O'. You can also sort by Railroad, Legacy or Conventional or other keywords. It goes back to around 2000 and is very helpful.

This is my understanding, too: If is standard it is scale size.  That doesn't necessarily mean it is super-detailed, exactly true to the prototype, etc., but my understanding is that it does mean it is scale size.  

The one possible exception in my mind is their Mogul.  It looks a bit too small, even for a loco that was small in the real world: Lionel's tiny A5 shifter looks small, but scale.  To me, the Mogul is not quite a small, but doesn't look scale.  I might be just me. Lionel lists it as a standard loco, and the text on their website says, says "These scale-sized Lionel steamers can negotiate tight O-31 curves making them versatile enough to handle just about any O gauge layout."  

I also assume that anything "Premier" is scale.  

The Southern-based Mikes actually go back to the pre-TMCC versions around 1990/91.  18031 is a Frisco version, for example, availble only through dealers in '93, I beleive.  Outstanding engines--mine will pull more cars than I have.  It's only bad habit is throwing traction tires, but that isn't limited to just this engine.

The term Standard 'O' was used during the 1980's for cars that were larger than PW but still not 1:48, with a number like 17xxx but also some under 10,000, for instance, 6232, the IC boxcar from the Boston and Albany set.

There is no one rule for Lionel, you will have to do research, and more confounding, the Lionel website does not list items made before some certain date, perhaps 2001, but that is a guess.

ok I have one better any scale stuff that works on 036 ?

Jhainer - One for the ages - the F-3s are "scale" and will operate down to 0-27 is you don't have turnouts to negotiate...

Dave -

Essentially, if the original price was high, and the loco was "full-featured" (TMCC/RS, etc), it was 1:48. I can usually tell by just looking, but I've spent WAY too much time looking at real and model steam locos. Models look like models, and "traditional" stuff - though pretty cool, sometimes - just doesn't.

The catalogues (in placement, sections and descriptions) will tell you this, also.

The features listed on the N&W scale "J", as an example, include: "Standard O Scale".

That's 1:48. (Just looked at it on the Lionel website; that's where the info is.) 

The price/feature thing above does not apply to PW re-issues or the like; I don't typically buy or watch that stuff, but some of it is nominally scale (F3's; "700E" re-issues, etc.)

I was thinking more along the lines of steamers. I really like my lionmaster challenger. but it's semi scale and my room doesn't dictate big curves.

Take a look at the scale 0-8-0 steam switchers - they should handle 0-36 if I recall correctly.

Jhainer,

        I would think the Moguls (2-6-0) and Ten Wheelers (4-6-0) would also operate on 036 curves. Both are scale. I have a TMCC Mogul that has been converted to 4 chuffs per revolution and upgraded smoke unit. Great little engine.

JohnB

Thank you guys I'll look around.

Those early Mikes are listed as running on 031; I know mine runs well on 042; I don't have any 036 to test it on. 

Then there was the MTH PS1 RK Allegheny that was mis-numbered as a "20-" loco,

years ago...

It is not hard to tell a Lionel scale loco from a sub-scale one: it says so in the specs,

general knowledge, and the appearance.

I have "20-" locos too - but that's no reason to choose an item.  

So it's sounds like I need to pass on Lionel steamers on the used market. Owners rarely can tell me for sure if they are scale or not......and I am not going to chase down numbers back to old catalogs I don't have. Plenty to buy in other brands. Thx

Here are the later Conventional ones based on the K-Line tooling:

6-11279 Western Pacific

6-11281 B&O

6-11283 Great Northern

6-11285 Missouri Pacific

6-11287 Rock Island

6-11289 Texas & Pacific

Its really not that difficult, Lionel lists all of the catalogs online back to 2000. In addition you can type the item # into Lionels search and pull up the product as well.

If that doesn't work simply googling the item number and description will likely turn up the information you need.  If not then of course you can always come here.

In less time it takes to go back and forth on this thread, you can have the answers to your questions. 

You can even find videos of it operating: ( these old scale mikes seem like a good buy when they're going for half the original MSRP NIB)

One of my "best practices" is to do an internet search for the item something like "Lionel 6-18079" and look for listings on Ebay, Trainz, and other common sites.  Often I find there are pictures with the posting showing the box end listing the features.  There is a picture on a 6-18079 NYC Mikado 2-8-2 Steam Locomotive listed now that has such a picture.  It states for this locomotive that the Scale: O-Gauge and the length is 20 3/4".  Compare that to the MTH premier 20-3285-2 at 21" and you could be close. However, it also could mean it's shorter in height, wheels sizes are not correct, etc.  I'd buy more Lionel if I could tell items were scale.

AMC Dave,

Do not get discouraged that quickly, check out the online catalog from 2000 on up and you will get a good feeling of what is scale and what is not. 

What are you looking for? A certain steam locomotive wheel arrangement Lionel makes?

With Lionel they made many remakes, so you have to judge your selection on what features you like I.e. command, TMCC, Legacy, can motor, conventional only. etc.

Dave,

If you have any questions about an item you want to buy, shoot me an email. I actually enjoy looking for unusual things like this and maybe we can figure it out together.

What the heck is semi scale? Its either scale dimension or not.

Clem k 

I'd agree.....if it wasn't a term the manufactures themselves us. My definition is a model not as small as Traditional....but not scale.....

Dave

As others have said, Lionel has a very good search feature.  Here are the 41 results that I received when searching for 2-8-2 Locomotives in the Standard O product line.  The Lionel web site goes back to 2000 or 2001.  Since then Lionel has offered several production runs based off of the old K-Line USRA light Mikado tooling.  The latest Lionel Mikes use the existing chassis with a new, larger diameter boiler to represent the USRA heavy Mikados.

http://www.lionel.com/Products...searchWithin=Current

If you are interested in scale locomotives keep and eye on the O Scale Locomotive Guide.  So far we have covered 7 axle locomotives, Berkshires, Mountains and Hudsons.  Six axle locomotives, Pacifics and Mikados, are coming soon.

https://ogrforum.com/t...ale-locomotive-guide

If you run conventionally or with DCS and are looking for a Mikado that is a scale model and an excellent runner the MTH USRA light Mikes are great.  The one I get to run regularly is smooth down to about 2 SMPH and can handle 20 typical scale freight cars on 2.5% grades.

"What the heck is semi scale? Its either scale dimension or not."

What the heck is semi scale.... that's an easy answer: Lionel. Period.

For 100 years, aside from a few production exceptions here and there, semi scale is the definition of Lionel. If you required true scale trains, you likely switched to HO.

Of course, the scale 3-rail emphasis started to take hold with the advent of TMCC, but really picked up steam when Lionel moved to China. There are those who will always complain about the move, but it is what enabled Lionel to start doing so much new tooling.

You know Dave, in addition to the suggestions J Daddy and Ted Hikel made, you could also simply try using Google with the product number and see what info you get.

I absolutely do not want scale stuff (this is the traditional forum) and have often answered a question by searching the product number on Google.

You know Dave, in addition to the suggestions J Daddy and Ted Hikel made, you could also simply try using Google with the product number and see what info you get.

A very good suggestion.  It will often lead you to items that are or have been offered on e-bay with multiple photographs.  Sometimes photos of the as produced items show that the catalog illustrations are not quite accurate.

semi scale is the definition of Lionel.

Lionel used semi-scale to describe the late pre-war 700 series scale freight cars built with tinplate trucks and box couplers.

I absolutely do not want scale stuff

OK, that leaves more of Lionel's very best like the 700E, 763 and 773 and their modern successors for the rest of us!

The one possible exception in my mind is their Mogul.  It looks a bit too small, even for a loco that was small in the real world: Lionel's tiny A5 shifter looks small, but scale.  To me, the Mogul is not quite a small, but doesn't look scale.  I might be just me.

Lee

It is just you.  The Lionel mogul is a scale model.  The K-Line/Lionel A5 is actually way over scale like the K-Line/Lionel two truck Shay.

Dave,

     Don't give up on Lionel scale steam engines you will miss the great sounds, even older TMCC Railsounds 4 sounds great and it is easy to have them converted to 4 chuffs and better smoke, just know a guy like Alex M.

      If you need to know if a item is scale go to the product locator on the Lionel website put in the item number and search. It will pull up all the features and specs and even refer to the last catalog the engine was in. Which are also on the website. Easy to do and you do not have to keep all the catalogs.

JohnB

I have a number of Lionel Locos I like alot. WM Shay #6, a first edition Big Boy and a Atlantic. The confusion comes with locos they make in traditional and scale....Mikes, Hudsons and Pacifics. I'll keep looking....but if I can't confirm...I'll pass. Thanks to all!