Electronics Obsolesence - Buyer Beware!

There is an upside.  A percentage of hobbyists will jump on every new trend selling off their older stuff.  You get to purchase backups for your platform for pennies on the dollar, everyone wins.

My working plan is to get it all to the same revision and use it until it dies.    We never learn how to use all the features and functions of what we have before new stuff comes out.       and as long as what we have works, then we can continue to use it.

I run my Legacy engines with my CAB-1 all the time. I have bought another CAB-1 and set it aside incase the one I'm using now dies.

Having been employed in the electronics industry for 25 years, electronics obsolescence is inevitable in any industry that uses it. My industry was pharmaceutical.

It burned my biscuits to no end when I worked closely with a vendor to design a power supply into a product and have him tell me the same power supply was obsolete when we launched the product a year later! Didn't he know while I was in the design phase??

Have our modern (and expensive), electronics packed toy trains become just another consumer device, to be discarded (or shelved) after a few years, because either 1) the electronics have failed and there are no replacement parts, or 2) the 'next version' is out?

"Hey, I just picked up the new UP4014 version 2.0 from XXX manufacturer."

"Oh, I still have v1.0."

"That's sooooo yesterday man, get with the new tech dude!"

I don't have a solution. Even though I live somewhat in the tech world, I shy away from electronics in my trains. Please, I don't mean to accuse those who do like all the cool tech features in their trains.

A trade-off either way, I suppose.

Hey Bobby O Gauge.........not too fret....it's well known and Andy Edelman repeated same at the recent O Gauge Forum, that you can run your trains just as easily using your smart phone. He noted that it is the obsolescence of certain electronic parts (unavailable to anyone....maybe a chip?)  that will do away with things such as the DCS remote. The electronic parts manufacturer needs to keep pace with upgrading technology or  else its' "fold up da shop".

And secondly, "think of all the O Gauge trains that became obsolete, from Legacy replacing TMCC" ?

  I have several Lionel, Atlas, and K Line engines.....steam and diesel that run on TMCC  and Legacy.  Two of my Legacy engines run fine on my TMCC, that said,

I realize there are features I am missing out by not using Legacy.  But obsolete engines because Legacy replaced TMCC ?????

Lastly.....I am a bit jealous....sticking to conventional operation means running trains without those hassles.  Said the guy who bought engines recently at York.

Bobby Ogage posted:

 

MTH is not alone driving obsolescence. Lionel has been a front runner in this regard. Look at all of the O-gauge trains that became obsolete when TMCC was replaced with Legacy!

Uhhh... It's fine to express your stance, but don't spread misinformation. The introduction of Legacy Control System did not obsolete the TMCC trains as you say - Legacy is fully capable of controlling every aspect of a TMCC train. Even Legacy Trains can be operated by TMCC to the full extent of TMCC protocol capabilities. You could make your argument around the introduction of LionChief though which wasn't backwards compatible with Conventional, TMCC, Legacy or anything. (LionChief Plus 2.0 is everything LionChief should have been with those compatabilities).

That's why I stay conventional. When anything I have with DCS fails it gets conventional also.

redjimmy1955 posted:

 

And secondly, "think of all the O Gauge trains that became obsolete, from Legacy replacing TMCC" ?   ZERO

  I have several Lionel, Atlas, and K Line engines.....steam and diesel that run on TMCC  and Legacy.  Two of my Legacy engines run fine on my TMCC, that said,

I realize there are features I am missing out by not using Legacy.  But obsolete engines because Legacy replaced TMCC ?????  Not true.  They are missing Legacy features but operate just fine.

 

I have Conventional trains and TMCC and 1 Legacy trains. I also have 2 protsound 2 trains, The only trains I run with command is the TMCC/Legacy and sometimes the conventional when I use my TPC-300/400's 

I'm more than equip to run all my trains conventional if need be.  

Well, the iPhone isn't a very good substitute for the Legacy remote. Total lack of touch feedback...try running with an iPhone without looking at it. I prefer to look at the train when I change things. Obsolete parts are a good reason to redesign the troublesome Legacy remote, rather than eliminate it.

Next we'll replace the trains with interactive videos on the iPad...

So a couple things:

Legacy didn't make TMCC trains obsolete and inoperable in a command environment. Legacy can still control TMCC locomotives no problem and older TMCC equipment can be controlled with Legacy. Yes the TMCC Cab-1 and base are no longer produced but that doesn't mean the locomotives are not useable.

DCS is still around. Just because the remote is gone doesn't mean it's obsolete. It works with a tablet, phone, or any other device via WIFI. Whenever my DCS remote dies I'll just get a WIU and run trains that way. No biggie.

Yes the electronics in trains change (TMCC to Legacy, PS2 to PS3). This has to do with not only improvements but also with component obsolescence. Train electronics are a tiny, minuscule fraction of the electronics industry. All electronics go through this. It is the nature of the industry. Nothing we can do about it.

As to if the electronics in your locomotives go bad, well, upgrade. It's possible to buy replacement boards from MTH and Lionel. They are easy to install with basic tools. If you want to rip them out and run conventionally you can. Enjoy the hobby as you wish. In my case command control brings more enjoyment to the hobby for me. Without it I would be bored standing at a control panel instead of following trains around my layout.

Remember the only constant in life is change.   

Using a touch-screen device to run a train is not at all the same as using a tactile remote (something with a knob, thumbwheel or buttons) because you must take your eyes off the train to work the touch-screen. It is like driving a car while messing with your smartphone. I sure couldn't perform any switching operation using a touch-screen. I tried using a Remote Commander but gave that up because the thing must be more-or-less aimed at the IR receiver so walk-around control not really possible. Because it's all switching all the time on the Plywood Empire Route I have gone back to Conventional using an MRC tethered walkaround throttle.

For lots of people using a touch-screen device is no issue because they are running trains and don't need to have their eyes on the train continuously but for anyone who performs car pick-ups and set-outs many times in an operating session a tactile device is a must. For these people (also CUSTOMERS ) MTH has made  a huge mistake in dropping the remote.

Marty’s comment above was bit nicer, mine, not so much.

In regards to Bobby OGages’ misleading comments above:

It’s this type of garbage and ill-informed posts that keep so many good people away or simply confuse new folks to the hobby.

Bobby Ogages' comments are totally out of line, not fact based, and quite frankly, the reason why I do NOT believe much of what is posted here by older folks without doing some additional research.

“MTH is not alone driving obsolescence.” MTH is NOT driving obsolescence… if this was the case, they (MTH) would have a say the life of the parts and they do NOT! They are simply and responsibly, providing information to the forum for information that may affect the future of how we play with trains AND offering a solution. 

“Lionel has been a front runner in this regard”. Really, says the self-proclaimed MTH guy…

“Look at all of the O-gauge trains that became obsolete when TMCC was replaced with Legacy!” Again, false, non-fact based garbage from Bobby Gauge.

BOBBY OGAGE… what Lionel O Gauge engine(s) became obsolete when Legacy was introduced?  Give us a few examples please. Can’t do that Bobby Ogage, ok, how about just one example, I’m making is easy for you. Surly you can name one engine that became obsolete. 

 I'm still looking Bobby...

Charlie

We have had several threads about this on the forum....electronics of all kinds for decades have become obsolete as new technology has been introduced.....we don't need more threads complaining about something that is inevitable....AND has been going on with all kinds of electronics we use in our daily lives.  I suggest you either adapt or buy up all you can of the old technology so that it outlasts you...

Bobby Ogage posted:

Obsolescence in electronics is going to challenge me financially and mentally. The Achilles Heel of electronic systems is short term obsolescence. So buyer beware, the electronics you buy today may be obsolete in a very few years endangering the operation of your railroad, and the lump in your wallet.

MTH is eliminating my hand-held DCS Remote which will force me to buy and learn new electronics to run my railroad. I will not give up my DCS hand-held remotes! To me, the hand-held remote is an excellent tool to run my railroad. I am comfortable with the hand-held DCS Remote, and I am not a fan of using my Apple I-Pad to run the railroad. The I-Pad is too clumsy for this purpose!

How long will it be before the new stuff (control hardware & software) is obsolete too? I am drawing a line in the sand now, "No new electronic control systems on my railroad." It is a great disappointment that MTH is terminating the hand-held DCS remote that I use to run my railroad without product support. I pray that a cottage industry will arise to keep the DCS remote viable after MTH drops it.

MTH is not alone driving obsolescence. Lionel has been a front runner in this regard. Look at all of the O-gauge trains that became obsolete when TMCC was replaced with Legacy!

 

 

Mth is bringing out the dcs remote with a new board . This was discussed by mth at the Tca open house this past Wednesday. The old remote electronics were not made anymore. Same remote just different insides.