Engine Not on Track

Get it running again, then do a factory reset on the locomotive, delete it from your remote and then add it back in again.

Sure seems like a Battery issue. I would go back to a know good battery.

Or try this. .How long do sounds carry on after track power is cut off. If not at least 6 or 7 seconds the battery needs charging . SAme thing with BCR.

 If the battery is weak the engine really doesn't get reset, it only gets deleted from the remote. The engine will still have  an ID number created when the battery up to par.

You've got a bad battery. When you initiate a shutdown the last thing the loco does is save the loco address. It's not saving

It's possible the engine isn't charging the BCR or the battery snap is defective. Check the engine sound test like Gregg suggests. Cut off the  TRACK power with the engine running and see if the sounds continue for at least 6 to 7 seconds. Don't use the SHUT DOWN on the remote to test the battery or BCR.

I agree with the other posters, except that I was suggesting to cut to the chase and resolve the problem, rather than analyze it. This happened to me and this is how I resolved it.

I went ahead and took out the new BCR I had installed and just push a fresh new battery in the engine, did a factory reset and had the same result.  I also tested just shutting off the track power with the engine running with both the new battery in it and also with the BCR.  The engine continued to run for 7-8 seconds before shutting down.  So with that said I am guessing its something more than just the battery?

Very frustrating having a $800+ engine with less than 15 minutes of run time not function anymore properly!

 You could try to eliminate "delete and add "each time you want to run the engine.

Reset the remote.(warning everything will be deleted or lost)  If the factory reset was working the engine would add back at the lowest available ID . In this case ID1.  

Since it's not working ,the engine should add back at it's old ID number created when  things were working... If the engine adds back at say  ID 6 you won't have to delete and add  each time.  Something's still amiss though. .

Gregg posted:

 You could try to eliminate "delete and add "each time you want to run the engine.

Reset the remote.(warning everything will be deleted or lost)  If the factory reset was working the engine would add back at the lowest available ID . In this case ID1.  

Since it's not working ,the engine should add back at it's old ID number created when  things were working... If the engine adds back at say  ID 6 you won't have to delete and add  each time.  Something's still amiss though. .

I agree with resetting the remote, if you don't mind adding all engines back in.

Resetting the remote would mean losing all my AIU settings for my switches too?

AJLaBoe posted:

Resetting the remote would mean losing all my AIU settings for my switches too?

Yes it would. However you could delete all the engines one by one without losing your AIU & switch setting. Do you have  any idea what the old ID was ? you could make it available.   How many engines do you have? We're sort of getting in  to extreme measures . Normally a battery charge fixes this type of thing  . there's still the possibility of a bad board and  that no matter we do it's just not going to remember it's id no matter what it is.

I want to thank everyone for their input.  Looks like clearing out all the engines and adding the Blue Goose in with the change of address in the DCS fixed it.  

Glad to hear that. What ID# did it assign?

It assigned it to #1 address.

Then, you are good to go. I would say 100%.

AJLaBoe posted:

It assigned it to #1 address.

Interesting. I haven't seen this in a while. What version of DCS are you using?

I'm not sure what actually happened as well... Either the battery charged enough to do a factory reset and the engine then added to the lowest available ID which would be ID#1  after resetting the remote.  Or the engines ID was ID 1, created when the battery was good.   How would  you   test? Try editing the address to a different ID. if it sticks the battery was the problem. Then again, maybe best left alone if it's working....

Gregg,

I'm not sure what actually happened as well... Either the battery charged enough to do a factory reset and the engine then added to the lowest available ID which would be ID#1 after resetting the remote. Or the engines ID was ID 1, created when the battery was good. How would you test? Try editing the address to a different ID. if it sticks the battery was the problem. Then again, maybe best left alone if it's working....

If the reset worked, there would have been a fleeting message stating "Engine address changed to 1".

If the reset worked, there would have been a fleeting message stating "Engine address changed to 1".

Barry

Huh? you lost me on that one Barry.... Wouldn't you get that message if editing the address?  Having a good day at York I hope.

Gregg,

The only time that message appears is when the following happens:

• The engine is really factory-reset, which changes its engine ID# to the factory default, which would equate to a DCS ID# of zero (if there was a DCS ID# of zero)
• Whe the engine is added, it's engine ID# is changed to something in the DCS ID# range of 1-99
• That's when the message would appear.

If the engine wasn't actually factory-reset, the engine would re-add at it's previous DCS ID#, and the message would not appear.

Engine Not on Track

I have been running MTH / DCS 4.2 for years and now 5.0.  I have seen this issue with 4.2 and just last week 5.0.  I have found out this best solution is to do nothing.             Example when it happen last week on the main line, I pick up the locomotive and placed it onto a siding. The next day I came back and the DCS Controller found the loco and I ran the loco again yesterday with, "No Chaos".

This is what works on my layout.

New wrinkle here for me. Got P-47 at York, 3v system. Put in a new battery and fully charged it. Checked it out on power down. Everything seems to work fine except it now sometimes gives me a not ontrack message. If I turn the power to the track off and then back on , it starts up fine. I did a factory reset with same result. I also moved it to different tracks to make sure it wasn't a TIU problem. Any ideas? This is a new one for me.

I had a female friend that always believed that if electronics were misbehaving, let them rest. I've seen this prove out to be true even though it is totally illogically. Spoc, would never accept this premise!

GHD posted:

New wrinkle here for me. Got P-47 at York, 3v system. Put in a new battery and fully charged it. Checked it out on power down. Everything seems to work fine except it now sometimes gives me a not ontrack message. If I turn the power to the track off and then back on , it starts up fine. I did a factory reset with same result. I also moved it to different tracks to make sure it wasn't a TIU problem. Any ideas? This is a new one for me.

Does the engine eventually respond to DCS in command mode?? without having to delete and re add? Or can you even run it in command?

Having  it start up by turning the track power off/on is normal  providing  the tiu channel is not getting turned off & on as well..

When I turn the power off it includes the TIU. I turn it back on and the engine is found and everything is normal. I only did the readd once for curiosity.

It is not illogical, for a processor to get some minor corruption as long as a low level voltage is still available (Capacitors, batteries).  Especially if a component is "leaking", or not in spec.

GHD, Need a better description of your issue?  If engine running around layout, it will sometimes give the not on track message, or are you talking about shutdown and restart during an operating session?

It is always good to do the battery test letting the engine shut down with power off.  Listen closely.  Even if it play for a few seconds but abruptly stops early, the memory may not be updated with changes.  So some times battery really isn't good.

Other check is to do a Track Signal test with engine.  Just because you always have 10 with other engines, does not mean the engine acting up is a 10.  DCS Signal is not just TIU and Track.  The engine matters too.  Can be a bad signal transformer or inductor on the PS-2/3 board, dirty wheels and pickups(corrosion).

Lastly, just wait as mentioned.  Give it sometime try 5 minutes and test.  Bracket an interval if waiting corrects the issue.  PS-3 needs time as the processor still runs off the supercap even after sounds and lights are off.  Should only be a few minutes, but it matters.  This was also seen with Factory resets on PS-2/3, when being used with DCS Remote CDR.  If you moved from the factory reset to the DCS Remote too fast the factory reset was not completed and the DCS Remote would not work.  This is not common, but it is not rare either.  G

George, the only problem is with the initial start function. It can't can not be found on the initial push of the start button. Turn the power off and back on and it starts and everything is normal.

Some additional info here. Engine sits on one end of an oval track. The left side is powered by one leg of tiu ( let's call it #1) the other side by another leg of the tiu (#2). The engine is sitting on the right side of the loop. Last night I turn on power using #2 and engine starts fine. Today I do the same and it starts fine. FYI The track signal is a 10 regardless of which tiu channel. So I shut everything off. Now I start again by turning on power to the #1 channel and the engine cannot be found. Try turning on both channels and engine out of rf range and cannot be found returns. Turn power off and back on and then no problem. There are many engines on the layout without this problem so I'm still looking at the engine here. My real concern here is that if I use this engine in a record/playback session, it may not start when it should.   

Any chance a Z-4000 is involved ? .   I suppose the handle that turns on fixed 1 would have to be raised before the handle hooked to fixed 2 is raised.  ( then again maybe you're also  using a aux power supply,. so much for that theory) 

Two TIU's in super mode. Powered by aux. The real  power comes from ZW's . I threw a toggle switch to power up. ZW's set at full power all the time. I split my track sections this way to split the power loads as I like to run multiple trains on a given loop.

I should also point out that the loop is not isolated for each channel. the track is tied together such that either channel will power the whole track.  I'm counting on the electrons to be smart enough to know where to go. 

GHD,

I should also point out that the loop is not isolated for each channel. the track is tied together such that either channel will power the whole track.  I'm counting on the electrons to be smart enough to know where to go

That's not at all a good thing to do, for two reasons:

1. The engines see two versions of the same command. one from each TIU chain el. This can cause all kinds of issues with controlling DCS engines. I'm not surprised that you're experiencing problems.
2. If you actually have 2 different ZWs feeding the two channels, this represents a potential safety hazard. If the two transformers are not putting out exactly the same voltage (and it's almost guaranteed that they are not), there's the potential for real damage, e.g., heat and a possible fire. Circuit breakers and fuses are not preventative measures in this situation.

You have a recipe for a potential disaster.

Resetting the remote would mean losing all my AIU settings for my switches too?

Nothing will have to be manually reinserted into a remote if, before a problem develops, you use the Loader program to back upn the data to a computer.  Tehn a simple restore reinserts all.

I'm counting on the electrons to be smart enough to know where to go. 

You are kidding, aren't you?  If not, note carefully Barry's 2nd comment.

Oh Oh!    I think you should at least put  in a couple of center rail insulating pins separating the channels Tiu as well.. You may have a 10 for a signal  but things are  going to work much better with the insulated center rail pins.   Do you have any spare channels that you could power up?  

I've been down  this road but not on purpose.   Pretty easy fix at this stage  with a Dremel & cutting disk.

Some background here. This layout started in 1999. It was all conventional with lots of blocks, relays, etc. Then I purchased a TMCC engine and installed that system. Lots of fun on a three level layout. Then in 2002 I purchased my first MTH engine and installed the DCS system shorty thereafter. I purchased most of this stuff from Phil Klopp at his hobby store and he was most helpful to get this stuff installed and operating. I do believe Phil and I did some learning together. There was no Barry's book back then and a lot was being learned about these systems.

Anyway, here's where my layout is today. I have four separate loops that are isolated electrically. I use 2 TIU's in the super mode. They are rev L and 4.3 I believe. I use 2 remotes and they are 4.1. Each loop has 2 channels to power it and the input to each channel comes from different transformers. I'm bearing my soul here, but this has worked for me and worked well for over 10 years. I have run as many as 15 trains at the same time.

I really do appreciate Barry's input here and would like comments on my plan to improve the safety part of this. I plan to power each loop with one transformer. I'll disconnect one transformer from the TIU channel and then simply install short jumper wires to that channel on the input side of the TIU from the remaining transformer. I believe it's the multiple transformer thing that raises the safety concern. Maybe I've been lucky, but I'd rather be safe.

This latest little engine blip, may turn out to be a blessing.

GHD,

I use 2 TIU's in the super mode. They are rev L and 4.3 I believe. I use 2 remotes and they are 4.1.

All DCS TIUs and remotes should be at the same release if DCS. If not, results will e unpredictable.

I'll disconnect one transformer from the TIU channel and then simply install short jumper wires to that channel on the input side of the TIU from the remaining transformer. I believe it's the multiple transformer thing that raises the safety concern

That's still not good enough:

• You can have one transformer connected to the input of one TIU channel, or connected to the input of two TIU channels. Either way is fine and is safe from disaster.
• Regardless, you should only have one TIU channel's output connected to one block of track, and that block of track must have its center rails isolated from adjacent blocks.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!

We have 4 tiu in super powered by 8 postwar ZWs.... Each tiu has 2 zws for power  using the a & d handles . One handle  to each channel ,( Var set to fixed). However each tiu channel is separated from another with a center rail insulating pin.   It seems you don't have any separation between channels.   

Although our layout is  single  track, it could have been 4 separated loops using 2 tiu in super.  Hope this give  helps a bit.    .

Bottom line     keep your  blocks or channel zones separated by an insulated center rail joint.

Gents, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely do 1 transformer per loop/ 2 channels. I have plenty of isolated sections of track, believe me. However, over the years with all the additions and wiring, I must have some connections between channels. I'll cross that bridge later if I have problems. My system really has been working fine and that is why I haven't updated things. One thing I'd like confirmed is the TIU fuse thing. My understanding is they have a 10 amp fuse. That says to me you can pass 10 amps using one channel or 10 amps devided up among the 4. Correct?

Each Tiu channel is rated for 10 or 12 amps... we use 10 amp fast  blow glass fuses between the ZW and  each Tiu input channel.... 4 channels 4 fuses....  This has worked well over the years because we 're still using an original tiu from around 02...    I like the lionel 180 power bricks better but we already  have the ZWs

It'll be interesting to see what happens  with the engine starting problem .. good luck.

GHD,

must have some connections between channels. I'll cross that bridge later if I have problems.

I'm fairly certain that you'll be crossing that bridge in the future.

I'd like confirmed is the TIU fuse thing. My understanding is they have a 10 amp fuse. That says to me you can pass 10 amps using one channel or 10 amps devided up among the 4. Correct?

Each TIU channel is designed to handle a continuous 10 amp draw and each TIU channel has one 20 amp fast-blow fuse on each channel. However, the primary purpose of those fuses is to protect the TIU, not your engines.

It's prudent to have a 10 amp fast-blow fuse or 10 amp quick-acting circuit breaker installed in the Hot wire between each transformer output and the TIU channel input that it services.

This and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at OGR’s web store!