Engine stops over switches

Hello Henry, If you are thinking the battery will will keep the engine moving when the rollers hit a dead space, unfortunately it won't. The purpose of the battery is to keep the sound going primarily in conventional mode when the direction button is pressed or when the power to the track is shutoff and the engine can complete the shutdown sequence.

Best bet is to add additional rollers to the tender if it's a steam engine or change the arrangement of the switches to alleviate the dead spot.

Are the switches in a row or at the end of a tight curve ? If so, you may want to try and insert a short fitter straight piece before, between and/or after the switch.

Also, check this link:

MTH Realtrax Switch Issues | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Yes the switches are together both are 031 and the engine is a rail king SD60

I had the same issue with an MTH engine and a single switch.  I noticed that another of my MTH engines used rollers with a wider spread.  Swapped the rollers and the engine crossed the switch with no problem.  I ordered a new set of pickup rollers for the engine that worked and put them on the problem engine.  No more problems crossing the switch.

I just had the same problem. So I hooked a ground wire to the rail that was not grounded . Problem solved. I believe Gar Graves or Ross told me to try this some time ago. It work then and it worked last week🙃

So after reading the all of replies its not the engine its the switch? I thought the engine would coast through any short dead spots but i guess I was wrong. Thanks to all for your help

Henry

@Bill Grafmiller posted:

I just had the same problem. So I hooked a ground wire to the rail that was not grounded . Problem solved. I believe Gar Graves or Ross told me to try this some time ago. It work then and it worked last week🙃

I checked power and ground  both ok. I use a jumper wire on both outside rails

for a test, put a regular 9 volt inside just to see if it makes it over the switches. Some batteries fail when under load. Take it back out right away.

On some steam, you can add a pick-up to the tender if there isn't one. On diesels, you can add the double rollers when they fit, if they aren't already there.

I've also seen where some wires aren't connected properly or failed, and the engine stalls like you're seeing.

Joe thanks for your reply. I switched out the battery with a BCR no changes also picked up each end one at a time of loco while under power and the engine did not die so that tells me that each roller is working correctly.

Another quick check is to first measure the length of the "dead spot", using a test lamp and a ruler/tape measure. The distance between the pick-up rollers MUST be greater than the length of your "dead spot", otherwise the model will never negotiate the "dead spot".

@H1000 posted:

Hello Henry, If you are thinking the battery will will keep the engine moving when the rollers hit a dead space, unfortunately it won't. The purpose of the battery is to keep the sound going primarily in conventional mode when the direction button is pressed or when the power to the track is shutoff and the engine can complete the shutdown sequence.

Best bet is to add additional rollers to the tender if it's a steam engine or change the arrangement of the switches to alleviate the dead spot.

I went back to layout and did some more testing and discovered that the sounds stop as well. earlier I had the sound off

Henry

I had two 072 in a row and i had to put a relay on one so it would energize the dead rails when the switch was  thrown in a certain way.  Ross has instructions on their web site on how to do this for the big switches.  It helped with my issue, not sure if it would help with your issue, not sure if the MTH switches are set up the same way.

@Tony H posted:

I had two 072 in a row and i had to put a relay on one so it would energize the dead rails when the switch was  thrown in a certain way.  Ross has instructions on their web site on how to do this for the big switches.  It helped with my issue, not sure if it would help with your issue, not sure if the MTH switches are set up the same way.

Thanks Tony I will look at their web tomorrow

@c6usa posted:

I went back to layout and did some more testing and discovered that the sounds stop as well. earlier I had the sound off

Henry

so you may have a broken wire? Why would the sound stop so fast?

Can you test your battery with load? and BCR you have as well?

or do you mean the engine sounds shuts down?

@Engineer-Joe posted:

so you may have a broken wire? Why would the sound stop so fast?

Can you test your battery with load? and BCR you have as well?

I agree that will be my next move tomorrow. Checking wiring

I have 8.8 volts from battery to board I checked voltage at the board. In my heard I have 2 other sd60 engines both PS2 5 volt and they both go over the switches with no problems with sound on. so it looks like I may had a PS2 board problem (bad cap?)not a track problem.

Thanks for all your input Henry.

Henry, I'm not sold on the board being bad. How slow is the locomotive moving when going through this bad spot? If both rollers are moving through a dead spot slowly, you can expect the engine to shutdown. If you turn the engine around on the track and run it the other direction or just run it backwards through the same spot, does it shutdown?

@Richie C. posted:

Are the switches in a row or at the end of a tight curve ? If so, you may want to try and insert a short fitter straight piece before, between and/or after the switch.

Also, check this link:

MTH Realtrax Switch Issues | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

@H1000 posted:

Henry, I'm not sold on the board being bad. How slow is the locomotive moving when going through this bad spot? If both rollers are moving through a dead spot slowly, you can expect the engine to shutdown. If you turn the engine around on the track and run it the other direction or just run it backwards through the same spot, does it shutdown?

I have another SD60 engine PS2 5 V that I tested as well.  Both engines were tested at 50 smph and in both directions one has no problems the other stops abruptly and sound stop as well. The layout has been down for 2 years now and I did not have any problems with the engine in question until yesterday. I have 2 areas where there is 2 spots that this happened. I still think its the something in the PS2 board. My layout is a large one about 50'x10' with 4 levels, 51 switches, 38 engines all DCS

Thanks Henry

Okay Henry, That is a pretty good rate of speed, I'd think the engine should fly right over it without issue. In order for the engine to goto from 50 to 0 in that small gap seems unlikely but I think if you could post a picture of the switch junction that is giving you issue that would us all a lot.

I'd be looking at the engine, not at the switch.  Did you do the simple checks, are both rollers connected?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd be looking at the engine, not at the switch.  Did you do the simple checks, are both rollers connected?

Yes both roller work ok I can lift one end off track at a time and it will keep running

It actually does appear that something is amiss in the engine, it drops power immediately when it loses the power momentarily.  Even if it has that gap, it should not have lost sound.  Since the lights come back on very quickly, it has power back and should have continued on it's way like the other engines.  The battery should have kept the PS/2 electronics running and allowed the engine to continue on.

First step is to check the battery and charging circuit for that locomotive.

If you put it on a straight track section and interrupt power momentarily, (less than a second), the sounds should continue and it should act like nothing happened.  Again, if you have it on a straight section of track running slowly forward and interrupt the power briefly, it should momentarily stop and then just pick up and continue running.  If either of these tests fail, you have a battery/charging circuit problem.

I took off the ground for less that one second and you can see what happened.

There's your answer, it's broke.

Put a new charged battery in and see if that helps.  If not, you have a bum PS/2 board set.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

for a test, put a regular 9 volt inside just to see if it makes it over the switches. Some batteries fail when under load. Take it back out right away.

On some steam, you can add a pick-up to the tender if there isn't one. On diesels, you can add the double rollers when they fit, if they aren't already there.

I've also seen where some wires aren't connected properly or failed, and the engine stalls like you're seeing.

Don't get me wrong, the battery and/or the charging circuit is definately an issue. But if you can, I'd also fix the dead spot. If it's just the battery, then the board is fine.

Can't hurt to fix the dead spot, but with that behavior, it can stop just because of dirty track.  Clearly, there is an issue with that specific engine.

I agree with you you it must have been the engine/BATTERY. when i replaced the battery the first time I must not have let it charge now look with a BCR installed. The old battery was a green one and it showed 8.8v at the battery as well as the backside of the board where the wires hookup. The battery must do more than just the sound. now when power off the track the sound goes for about 5 seconds.

Again Thanks to all for your input

Henry

Well at least you have the engine running now.  However, there is still a problem. You can see the lights go out momentarily when the engine goes over the switch.

I'd look at both center rail pickups on the engine.  Maybe one is non longer connected (wire broke?).

Just an idea.

@DaveGG posted:

Well at least you have the engine running now.  However, there is still a problem. You can see the lights go out momentarily when the engine goes over the switch.

I'd look at both center rail pickups on the engine.  Maybe one is non longer connected (wire broke?).

Just an idea.

@c6usa posted:

Yes both roller work ok I can lift one end off track at a time and it will keep running

Joe and Dave Thanks, Projects for tomorrow

@DaveGG posted:

Well at least you have the engine running now.  However, there is still a problem. You can see the lights go out momentarily when the engine goes over the switch.

I'd look at both center rail pickups on the engine.  Maybe one is non longer connected (wire broke?).

Already tested that, at least he said he did.  The issue with the switches is that they are spaced to drop power briefly to the engine, the voids match up with the rollers.  However, with a good battery (or BCR), the engine flywheels carry him to power again, the battery keeps the electronics humming, and the engine continues on.  If a roller were not connected, the lights would have been out a lot longer and twice for the two switch gaps.  Even with a good battery, I doubt a PS/2 engine would make it around all those switches with one roller.

Ok.  So does the other engine he used as a test doo the same thing, that is lights flicker while going over switch?

No, but if it's a PS/3 it wouldn't, and even some of the later PS/2 3V ones tended to have a little more headlight "life".  The bottom line is he already stated he checked the rollers and they were good.

The rollers was the first thing that I tested. I lifted each end off of track one at a time to see if they were making contact and they were then when I had it on the bench I also check with a ohm meter both the roller to roller and wheel set to wheel set both were good.

In my life a little flicker no big deal I can live with that the engines don't miss a beat and all is good now with the CSX yard. I just like to run the trains nothing is perfect.

Thanks Again to you All

Henry

Testing a battery with a voltmeter will not show the condition of the battery, except in the rare case where there is an internal disconnect.  A battery must be tested under load, and today's test meters are not enough of a load.

I don't see this being a battery issue, I think the engine is running fine.  The problem with the switch spacing has already been discussed and does indeed briefly cut track power.  However, the engine continues with the flywheel inertia and regains power before shutdown, thus indicating the battery is fine.  On PS/2 locomotives, the lights will go out immediately on any track power interruption, they're not supported by the battery.  The only "fix" here is to fool around with the switch spacing, and since it's not affecting anything but a brief flicker of the lights, he's elected to let sleeping dogs lie.