Engines catching fire!!!

John,

If you use the Loader Program frequently enough, you'll see that it does, indeed, monitor the upload/download process and present the user with retry dialogs if it encounters errors. The point being, the Loader does seek ACKs from the engine.

No errors means that the load went through just the way it was when downloaded to the PC from MTH's web site.

This is my experience after doing literally hundreds of loads, both to and from PS2 and PS3 engines.

As I said Barry, I'd have been pretty surprised if it didn't work that way.  It's hard to imagine how many bad downloads you'd have if there was no checking.

The whole discussion got started about cooking smoke units after downloading a sound file for an upgrade, I'm not quite sure that there wasn't some other flaw to cause the problem.  I've a number of sound files, and done quite a few PS/2 upgrades now, and I've never seen flames.

John, I don't want to be label as an MTH Defender, though I am sure there is case evidence:-)   But I also wish people weren't so negative in the terms they call the various designers and manufactures of these toys.  Both Lionel and MTH engineers have been ridiculed by folks on the design aspect.

Didn't you have to go back and redesign some stuff because of EMI and Voltage Spikes:-)  Occasionally good designs can have bad things happen on a rare occasion.  This isn't Nuclear Power or aviation with fail safes, multiple redundancies, etc...  It could be but folks don't want to pay that cost.

Despite check sums and all the other precautions it is always possible a glitch in power, or some other interference causes a command to be missed and a device to react accordingly.  While smoke units shooting fire balls is rare it can happen.  I have repaired one K-Line puffer and 2 MTH units that did it.

Since I contributed to this post, I was only giving examples of why it could happen and not be related to exploding smoke fluid.  High voltages are available and low resistances can occur which can lead to high currents.

Sure, maybe gasoline was used instead of smoke fluid.

Certainly a burned wick would retard heat transfer.

I explained why and under what conditions high current draw could occur. 

Certainly this can be hardware.  A FET that turns on, but not off.  A shorted FET, a bad heat element, etc... 

Instead of condemning them, I wonder what constraints they were under that cause the choices they make.  One way versus 2 way communication, loss of command stops engine or keeps it going on last command, etc....   G

George,

Well said!

Actually, in this case, I think MTH probably did provide end to end checking as noted by Barry's comments.  I agree with him, you probably would never get an error indication if they weren't doing some sort of checking.  How much is a question...

I think many of us have seen smoke resistors burned up for one reason or another, the Lionel smoke regulator has been known to fail and cook the smoke unit, and then you have to replace the regulator board too.

I'm not condemning them, and I realize that there are cost considerations for model trains.

I don't think the aerospace design process can be compared to model trains.  While it's true we frequently have to go back and fine tune a design, when you are subjected to 100's of volts of direct pin injection voltages, for instance, it takes a bit more to protect the circuits! 

I do think that having full voltage on everything and simply grounding the stuff was probably not the best design decision on the planet, but as long as the wiring is done properly and there are no pinched wires, it does work.

I'm still buying MTH locomotives, so they can't be all bad.

This topic gets more interesting all the time. Now there are two things in my mind that have been pointed out in this thread that should not be defended. It may be that 'that is the way it is' but that does not excuse the reality of these two points.

1) John's point about check sum. (period!!!) Check sum in my life goes back to punch cards and magnetic tape in computers in the 1950's. It is not rocket science. What happened to me using the DCS loader on the SD-45 sound file should never have been able to happen. Go back and read it. Loader should be able to read & verify each sound file when it is ready for use on the PC and by check sum determine to proceed or if it is corrupt and advise accordingly. It does not and in my case above did not.

2) The fact that MTH has not a representative assigned to this forum to represent positions on such issues is just not good or smart Business. Assuming they do not wish to do this for their business reasons, they should have at least answered Chuck's call in the first place. Even a "we are looking into it" response is acceptable, with follow up later.

That having been said, MTH should not get a pass just because they are trains and not rocket ships. Customer Service, concern for quality and sincerity to the purchasers and techs who keep their reputation in tact should be foremost.

I am still buying MTH trains so they are doing some things right but refuse to give them the pass on customer service. Having spent 30 years in customer service, it is not hard to do. Just make up your mind and DO IT! We all are MTH's life blood.

Just check how Lionel is handling customer service, that's in case they need a model to emulate.

I'm not commenting on the quality or reliability of either brand, just pointing out that you can have good service for model trains. 

I like a lot of the MTH stuff, and they make some quality products, as well as unique stuff that you can't get from the other manufacturers.  I just wish they'd get their customer service act together.

I should have added in my last post that an appropriate answer from MTH on the sound file question would have been..... "The sum check function does not now exist in the current version of the DCS Loader program. We are logging it in as a desireable functional enhancement to be considered in a future release." An answer like that would be satisfactory to every one of us for sure and at least give us a feeling that our concern has been heard and our confidence and support of the MTH company has been enhanced.