Evolution of Quality

O have some pieces from the MPC era that I run which run quite nice on a gargraves track layout. I have also encountered some items that were not all that good. A friend has that set you just bought from when it was issued. He is quite happy with it as it seems to run quite well. I wwould say that MTH Railking diesels and Lionchief plus diesels are an improvement. I have had failures with both but they were repaired on warranty and work well now. The Lionchief mosr recent RS-3 with blue tooth really runs very nice with the blue tooth app. 

mlavender480,

I have several MPC items in my collection that run well. I will grant you that when MPC was trying to find it's way in the early years (1970 through about 1974ish) they had some quality problems, but they also had some good things too. With regard to the plastic gears, I have never had one of these fail. As to the voltage drop and curvature, is it possible that your track laying and wiring are not what they should be?

I’ve sorted my stock into three groups - older, heavyweight O27 stock, MPC and newer lightweight, traditional-sized stock and larger, lightweight modern. 

Of the three groups I’d say that some of the best quality pieces are the Lionel O27 size, 24xx carriages. Very nicely done, pickups on all trucks, they track very nicely but they DO take some pulling because if their weight and rolling resistance, and the hot shoes on the trucks tend to cause sparking over switches and occasionally, unwanted uncoupling. 

the freight stock is heavy but very robust. Lots of play value, there. 

The MPC and more modern stuff is bright and attractive but definitely less robust. It rolls well, and it’s lighter but mixing it with older stuff tends to derail it on curves.

The 1990s-era “small Madison” carriages definitely suffer from quality issues, especially the running gear. The 2000-ish extruded aluminium carriages are rather nice, and much better construction quality. 

Moving on to the locos, I’m not going to comment on the PW ones I have, because they all require work. The Williams die-cast scale Hudson seems a very nice piece, in that vein. Of the two semi-scale Hudsons, the MPC era one runs nicely in the fashion of open-frame AC motors - less power and less controllable than the can-motored ones. The K Line one is nicer, but definitely more of a model, less a toy with its larger pilot wheels and more fragile detail. The MTH Premier K4s is again, a nice model but badly let down by its PS1 control system. A definite winner is the Lionel semi-scale PE Berkshire, which tracks nicely, runs smoothly, fits nicely with O27 and traditional size stock, has no fiddly tether and a nicely executed body shell. Very much an “updated PW design” in the manner of the Williams Hudson 

turning to the track, as a general comment, the fit and finish of modern tubular track is markedly inferior to the older stuff. 

The RailKing controller is just a thoroughly useful piece of kit, and the can motored locos like it (the open frame, AC motors seem less affected by it). 

So, there are definite stand-out items, a few definite losers... but I wouldn’t say there was a definite trend in quality vs time, either way. Depends how you define it. There is definitely evolution of design, but that isn’t necessarily the same thing. 

My MPC #8020 Alco is probably the highest quality engine in my fleet.  Other than needing brushes at one point (after a LOT of hours), it is the ONLY engine that has never given me trouble.  The others range from Prewar through Postwar to the 2010s.  

I should clarify:  I am speaking of Lionel, here.  ALL of my Marx engines are trouble free.

I think the fact that many mpc items are still alive and kickin' says a lot.

I’m not sure if it came off this way, but I didn’t intend to paint all MPC/LTI stuff with the same brush.  I wasn’t referring to the higher-end items, but mostly the “traditional” line.  The diesels with the can motors mounted in the trucks, for example.  The earlier MPC diesels with Pullmor motors seem to run well and can at least be tuned/serviced.  Rolling stock from both eras is about equal in my opinion; some seems cheaper with plastic frames etc but the graphics are nice and colorful.

Re: the Great Lakes set- I’m a little apprehensive about the engine.  It’s a 2037-style 2-6-4, but with what appears to be a small can motor.  Is it underpowered?

As far as my wiring and trackwork, right now I have a roughly 4.5’ x 9’ carpet central, as that’s all the room I have for now.  I’ve used both tubular and Fastrack with similar results; the Fastrack seems to have more voltage-drop issues even with the pins bent etc.  I’ll try adding more power feeds when I can and see what happens.

In any case, I didn’t intend to come off as being harsh and I still have trains from that era that I like.  I guess it really is an apples-to-oranges comparison, but the evolution of the hobby is mind boggling in some ways.  In HO, I started with a 1985 Tyco set, and the trains being brought out now are leaps and bounds ahead of those products.  They also cost many times what the Tyco trains did!

There’s definitely something out there for everyone.

I have the Great Lakes Express set and really like it -- and the locomotive pulls the coaches well.  I must admit, the coaches are the main reason I bought the set, as I have a Williams turbine that needed something behind it   I now use the turbine for freight, and the Lionel loco is back where it belongs pulling those nice-looking coaches.  Keep in mind, however, the locomotive didn't come equipped with a whistle tender, but that's easily remedied by swapping the shell with one that is so equipped.

@Pre-War Steve posted:

I have the Great Lakes Express set and really like it -- and the locomotive pulls the coaches well.  I must admit, the coaches are the main reason I bought the set, as I have a Williams turbine that needed something behind it   I now use the turbine for freight, and the Lionel loco is back where it belongs pulling those nice-looking coaches.  Keep in mind, however, the locomotive didn't come equipped with a whistle tender, but that's easily remedied by swapping the shell with one that is so equipped.

That’s good to know, Steve, thanks!

I bought the Great Lakes SSS new back in 1991. The loco pulled the cars OK and the smoke was so so. All in all, it wasn’t a junk set and it wasn’t high end. It was simply reliable. Eventually, I sold it.

If you ever decide to sell the set please contact me. Nostalgia is calling me.

@Brian Olson posted:

I bought the Great Lakes SSS new back in 1991. The loco pulled the cars OK and the smoke was so so. All in all, it wasn’t a junk set and it wasn’t high end. It was simply reliable. Eventually, I sold it.

If you ever decide to sell the set please contact me. Nostalgia is calling me.

 

I’ll definitely let you know if I go that route.  I seem to remember reading that these 2-6-4’s were noisy and ran rough, but I could be mistaken.  

Nope.  That engine was plain Jane vanilla with glossy gray paint.  Will it run?  Yes.  Will it impress anyone?  Nope.  Loud drive train, poor smoke.

Great cars though!

Jon