Experience with converting MTH Premier 3 Rail to 2 Rail

Best advice I can give you:  cheapest and quickest is to sell the MTH and buy a Sunset.

A very long road is to purchase a good lathe and become a decent machinist.  This project will take at least a 6" Atlas with flat ways - my smallest lathe is a 9" South Bend.  Neat hobby, but not very efficient.

Having somebody else do it is not an option, since Joe retired.  There are machinists capable of this stuff, but there is a learning curve that you will pay for at over $100/hour.  You could own three Sunsets for what you would invest.

Now you have one opinion.

Thanks Bob.

It's a shame.  The one guy who could have done this for you in perhaps a few hours recently retired, and as far as I know, didn't train a successor.  Your other option is learn to love the center rail.  The higher-ups have basically determined that the numbers in 2-rail O-scale just don't support mass production. 

I think there is plenty of good product at reasonable prices in 2-rail.  The Sunset GG1 was a spectacular bargain.

Joe was working practically for free.  His was a labor of love.

I don’t think I’ll ever go to 3 rail! 

I’ll start looking for a Sunset GG1, but wish I could convert the new MTH. It looks amazing.

You can try Forsyth Rail Services  

mattforsyth.com

Larry

Word of caution I pass on from a seasoned 2 rail friend  (he has 3 Sunset GG1's)  - the bodies are beautiful but the mechanism is not up to Sunset's current standard for smooth operation.  

I am also one of the people that has had engines converted from 3 rail to 2. I did some of the work myself, and on one in particular (MTH Allegheny), sent it out for the main drivers conversion. I'm fairly happy with the engine after years of running. The converted engines, and even some of the early 2 rail models, have all needed work afterwards to keep them running.

 I can't help but feel that these toys require work as I'm always working on them. Maybe it's just my luck? I have a 3 rail loop and it's no better. I read people's posts of wanting models that just run and don't require any attention and I laugh to myself. Every session there's at least one thing that requires something done. Running several big trains finds any weaknesses fairly fast. So I learned to have many engines and equipment ready to be swapped into the trains to keep things running. Maybe running a smaller train with just a few cars would be easier? I feel that it's like a real life RR where there's factors that we can't control. It takes effort to keep things right.

 Converting stuff and working to keep things running has taught me valuable lessons. I have learned how to help the RR run smoothly. I can pick out good runners and any weaknesses that will need attention before they cause issues. It's not all bad. I wish I had been part of a club with experienced members to help me learn faster. This forum has helped. Maybe the worse part is being influenced by someone who makes choices that aren't the best. Some have closed eyes to anything new or different. So I try to always move forward and stay open to what's changing. I saw a video of a toy train that runs on sunlight and wonder how soon we'll see a new type of train on our rails.

Engineer-Joe posted:

 I can't help but feel that these toys require work as I'm always working on them. Maybe it's just my luck? I have a 3 rail loop and it's no better. I read people's posts of wanting models that just run and don't require any attention and I laugh to myself. Every session there's at least one thing that requires something done. Running several big trains finds any weaknesses fairly fast. So I learned to have many engines and equipment ready to be swapped into the trains to keep things running. Maybe running a smaller train with just a few cars would be easier? I feel that it's like a real life RR where there's factors that we can't control. It takes effort to keep things right.

 Converting stuff and working to keep things running has taught me valuable lessons. I have learned how to help the RR run smoothly. I can pick out good runners and any weaknesses that will need attention before they cause issues. It's not all bad. I wish I had been part of a club with experienced members to help me learn faster. This forum has helped. 

These are VERY important points you've made. For me anyway, tinkering with these things is what I enjoy the most... 

Mark in Oregon

The only problem I noted with the Sunset GG1 drive was the idler axle.  You really need all six axles driven.  I think a Delrin chain wiuld fix that.

I can understand the charm of the MTH die cast body.  There are of course ways to make it 2-rail.  It is possible that a few House of Duddy mechanisms are still floating around - you could adapt one of those.  There were two versions - the older version could probably accept the MTH sideframes.  The newer version is fully sprung and extremely accurate.

But that would be a lot of work.  I am currently getting ready to tackle the MTH Bi-polar, and anticipate a hundred hours of effort.

Here is a belly shot of the primitive version.  It originated with Ed Alexander.  Most only have two axles per truck powered.

I own several of the Sunset GG1's and understand the problem with tractive effort. However, one of the issues with this is that the pilot trucks are way too heavily sprung which can cause the outermost drive wheels to not put much weight on the drive train - not nearly as much as the center drivers of each set. The inner drivers are not powered.

A simple fix is to remove the pilot truck springs which will enable the locomotive to place weight emphasis on the outer drivers rather than the pilot trucks which are obviously not powered. Weight can also be added to the body to increase pulling power. 

new for 2 rail! ???

Thanks Larry! I’ll look into them.

Bruce  - If you are seriously thinking about the Sunset GG1 I recommend you contact John Sethian (he has several GG1's).  John devised a drive train mod to eliminate issues with timing belt skipping and is pleased with the result.    

Will do Ed. If you have any leads on where to get one, please let me know. Thanks!

OK Bruce, good advice so far ... if a little easy .  How about some replacement spoked 2-rail wheels and delrin axle gears and chain like Weaver used?  Slater's UK 4'3" tender wheels at 1:43.5 with 3/16" diameter axles are nearly a drop-in replacement for the 57" 1:48 GG1 wheels.  10 or 12 spoke wheels available, OK I know they don't instantly look like GG1 wheels, but who's going to see them?

https://slatersplastikard.com/...mmScale/7mmBogie.php

Jason

Yes, but at $17 per axle before shipping, aren't they a bit steep?

If only MTH would use NMRA standers we could run all are trains on all O scale track.

harley rider posted:

If only MTH would use NMRA standers we could run all are trains on all O scale track.

Whaaat? I am running MTH 2 rail on standard Atlas 2 rail and other brands. I am missing something here.

harley rider posted:

If only MTH would use NMRA standers we could run all are trains on all O scale track.

MTH PS3 locomotives can be operated under the proprietary DCS or the NMRA standard protocol, DCC. 

catnap posted:

harley rider posted:

If only MTH would use NMRA standers we could run all are trains on all O scale track.

MTH PS3 locomotives can be operated under the proprietary DCS or the NMRA standard protocol, DCC. 

Oh, so it's a control problem here?

Engineer-Joe posted:

harley rider posted:

If only MTH would use NMRA standers we could run all are trains on all O scale track.

Whaaat? I am running MTH 2 rail on standard Atlas 2 rail and other brands. I am missing something here.

Because of NMRA standards 2 rail will all work together,DCC ect.

You are evidently enamored with the MTH body. A while back Weaver made the GG1 in both 2 and 3 rail. Maybe you could stick that MTH body on a Weaver 2 rail chassis. Just a thought.

Simon

The Weaver body is a little short of being scale length for the GG1. Although it may appear to be full length it really is a slight bit short - maybe 1/2 inch. Possibly MTH is also. Custom Brass, Sunset, Wolfer, Lionel, and Kohs are the correct length.

Thanks everyone for the great input. I think I'm going to wait on this. It's above my skill set for now. Plenty of other things I can buy and have fun with!