I'm looking for some fast acting breakers for my MRC Pure Power Dual transformer. The breakers on mine take about 7 seconds to pop and that's too long for modern (TMCC/Legacy, DCS) equipment in my opinion. Forgive my mistake in the video.
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These are great. Lightning fast. Need one for each output. Not cheap but even can save a meltdown inside an engine.
cjack posted:These are great. Lightning fast. Need one for each output. Not cheap but even can save a meltdown inside an engine.
Sweet. Thanks! Are these similar to the breakers in the 180 powerhouses?
Trainlover9943 posted:cjack posted:Sweet. Thanks! Are these similar to the breakers in the 180 powerhouses?
The PSX might be a bit faster because it trips before my PH180's CB. However, it is a lot more than a CB if you use all of its functions. Here is a picture from the manual.
Here is how I wired it (all the info here I received from others, like Chuck above).
If you get a short, the PSX will reset as soon as the short is cleared. I prefer to reset it when I'm ready.
Wired as in the diagram, if a short happens the switch lights up, the alarm turns on, and the Track Power On LED goes off. After I fixed the problem, I reset the PSX by pressing the switch.
Since I use Power Masters that need to be turned on, the Power In LED reminds me to do it.
CAPPilot posted:Trainlover9943 posted:cjack posted:Sweet. Thanks! Are these similar to the breakers in the 180 powerhouses?
The PSX might be a bit faster because it trips before my PH180's CB. However, it is a lot more than a CB if you use all of its functions. Here is a picture from the manual.
Here is how I wired it (all the info here I received from others, like Chuck above).
If you get a short, the PSX will reset as soon as the short is cleared. I prefer to reset it when I'm ready.
Wired as in the diagram, if a short happens the switch lights up, the alarm turns on, and the Track Power On LED goes off. After I fixed the problem, I reset the PSX by pressing the switch.
Since I use Power Masters that need to be turned on, the Power In LED reminds me to do it.
Cool! Quite the unit for sure.
I am with the others on going with the PSX-ACs. I have then PSX-ACs and use PH-180s for power. As CapPilot says above, the PSX trips before the PH-180s on my layout. I am also a firm believer in manual reset so I use that feature on my PSXs. And I am addicted to 'gadgets and gizmos' so I also have all the other options in service as well.
If you go to Tony's Train Exchange, they not only have the PSX-ACs, but they have a kit with screw terminals for them. It's been 5-6 years since I got mine there so the kit may include other stuff too, I forget? They didn't have the Son-Alert though, got that from Digi-key. Ro is a forum sponsor and probably a bit less than Tony's, but the staff at Tony's is very knowledgeable about these products if you should ever need help.
Actually its cheaper at Tony's. Unless this is something different. https://tonystrains.com/produc...ent-circuit-breaker/
I like Tony’s and Charles Ro both. Sometimes it depends on what else I need to order and combine shipping.
It's been a few years since I looked at any pricing on them, so that's a new one on me. I don't think Charles Ro had them back when I got mine from Tony's? Only a couple of places had them back then. Sometime after that someone posted a link to them at Ro's and they were somewhat less, but that's been a few years ago.
Yes. The differences are small though. Other considerations can drown them out.
IMO, the operation of the PH180 breakers are ideal. I do NOT want power being turned back on after a short until I decide it's time! The PH180 breaker may not be quite as fast as the PSX-AC, but it trips before I can think about it. 
I use the PSX-AC and they work great. I have them set up as CAPPILOT describes: Manual Reset, Audible Alarm, Status LED on for short. I purchased mine from Tony’s.
Enjoy.
gunrunnerjohn posted:IMO, the operation of the PH180 breakers are idea. I do NOT want power being turned back on after a short until I decide it's time! The PH180 breaker may not be quite as fast as the PSX-AC, but it trips before I can think about it.
I too love the non-sparking breaker control implemented by Lionel, only in my case, it's the humble CW-80 (currently using a pair on the carpet . They are probably nowhere near as fast as the PSX units or even the PH180s, but definitely LIGHT Years ahead of both my "upgraded" ZW breakers. Since I really want to retain conventional control, I will stick with the ZWs and probably buy a pair of the PSX-AC breakers.
Enlightening discussion, I especially liked the video - nothing like a hands-on demo!
As mentioned, the PSX-AC is ONLY for command operation, it doesn't function at low voltages.
I went overboard with the electronic gadgets when I first got back in the hobby in 2011 after a long hiatus. Actually, I am still doing that with gadgets, I'm weak and I admit it! Back then I was overwhelmed by all the new electronics and had heard stories about blown boards and their replacement costs. Wanted to be sure I has the most protection possible to prevent that, but wasn't sure exactly what all that was so I got all I could find. Today, I might just go with the PH-180s alone, but then there's the gadgets...oh my! Sometimes I like the gadgets more than the trains! I definitely would not want auto reset to repower anything until I wanted it powered though.
TVS are good things to add for the modern electronics also. Those are recommended by many folks here for voltage spikes and this forum is also where I learned about them. Breakers taking a few seconds to trip are probably fine if all you ever plan to have are post war trains and no modern electronics. But, I don't have any PW stuff, only the newer electronics only here, and mostly PS3.
Edit: and what GRJ said above while I was typing down here.
gunrunnerjohn posted:As mentioned, the PSX-AC is ONLY for command operation, it doesn't function at low voltages.
Thanks John, I totally missed that 
gunrunnerjohn posted:As mentioned, the PSX-AC is ONLY for command operation, it doesn't function at low voltages.
GRJ,
I'm not an electronics genius by any means, but have been following your comments for a couple of years trying to learn. So, just to clear my head on this subject; am I to understand that I would not be advised or cannot use these units with my ZW or my CW-80 to include my #990 LEGACY Command Set?
BTW, one vet to another, have a great Veterans Day. Thanks for your service!
Vr...
BAMBAM
Check out this vieo for other options: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...4tDONPbBemrojvLx6laY
Marty
The PSX-AC only works from 10-11 volts and up, so if you were going to try to run conventional stuff, it wouldn't work for that. It works fine with a variable transformer, just as long as the voltage is above the PSX-AC's operating threshold.
Thanks for the replies.
I have protected my MRC dual power transformer with the Raychem Polyswitch RXE-065S-1. They will trip at 1.3A and work quite well.
As I've posted many times, the PTC devices are notoriously slow to trip and aren't really any better than thermal circuit breakers.
Trip curves for RXE Breaker types.
PSX-1 Questions,
1) Placement, previous posters placed it between power source and the TIU, so does this act fast enough to protect TIU circuitry ? in this location, and does this minamize TIU signal degradation better ?
2) Overload settings, 8amps or 12amps, using a Z4000 with it's built in 10amp CB, at 8 amps this should trip before the Z4000 trips, at 12 amps after the Z4000 trips. So if you are pushing the track load to the 10amp operating max of the Z4000 I'm thinking the 12amp setting would be better for load and still have the fast acting dead short protection ?
With the Z4000 in remote Z4k operating mode the Volts and Amp meters on the Z4000 do not show readings. I have been looking to find Digital Volt and Amp Meters that I can mount on my control panel, I seem to be having difficulty to find these in the 0 to 30 volt, and 0 to 20 amp ranges, any suggestions ?
Thanks RWDeano
I'd probably use the 12A setting.
Good luck with the digital meters, even if you manage to find them, the accuracy is suspect unless you only have pure sinusoidal waveforms from the transformer. They'll probably do OK with the Z4000, one of the few modern transformers that would provide accurate readings.
It doesn't really matter where you set a PSX , it will still trip way before a Z4000 will in regard to a direct short. I have mine set up for 12amps. The PSX has no problem distinguishing a short from an over amperage situation.
RWDeano posted:PSX-1 Questions,
… and does this minamize TIU signal degradation better ?
I did a casual test on TIU DCS signal strength with a PSX a while ago and found the PSX did interfere with the DCS signal. It actually dropped the signal strength from 9 to 5/6. Gunrunnerjohn provided me some guidance on adding a 34A 22uH choke and I came up with the following diagram that worked to minimize signal strength loss.
Unfortunately, since then there has been discussion on this forum that this setup makes the current TIU Rev L failure mode worse. I don't know why there is an issue since their technical discussions are over my head. I still plan to setup my power as in the diagram, and I'm looking for someone who can do the modification to my three Rev Ls to fix the problem.
I've replaced the TPC 400 with Legacy 360 PowerMasters. Still use the PSX 15.8 amp setting. My long passenger train would trip the PH180 CB when used by itself, so I added more power via the TPC 400. The train never tripped the PSX at the 15.8 amps setting.
In numerous conversations discussing protecting trains with modern electronics with additional Circuit protection for Postwar and modern Transformers, the subjects of PSX-ACs, and Instantaneous Breakers (and TVS diodes) usually come up.
This thread "Fast Acting Circuit Breakers" is so far, the most informative I've found about PSX-ACs. I'm interested in creating a Linked reference in the Topic: Airpax Snapac "Instant" Hydraulic-Magnetic Circuit Breaker Internal Mechanisms that would refer back, either to this thread or another that may be more appropriate, for the benefit of anyone who may want to more easily compare the differences between PSX-AC and Airpax breakers.
Does anyone have comments about whether this Topic would be a good reference to cite or suggestions for a more comprehensive Topic about PSX-ACs?
Thanks in advance for your input, SteveH
How fast are the AirPax Snapac?
Chuck they are available with different delay times depending on the model number. The Instant variety delay "curve" shows 1 millisecond as the trip time (see Topic Airpax Instant Breakers for model number details) .
The full spec sheet can be found at this link
I have 5 amp thermal breakers in line with 10 amp Airpax The Airpax will trip instantly when shorted with a 28 awg wire. The thermal will melt the wire without tripping if used alone. When one of my PS3 engines in an MU misses the watchdog (grrrrr) and overloads the other one, the 5 amp will trip before the 10. But a derailment will always trip the Airpax.
I know this is an old topic , but I think it may be one of the better discussions about PSX-AC.
If you missed my question last night and have an opinion to share on it, please see my reply (4th above this one) and question .
Does anyone have comments about whether this Topic would be a good reference to cite or suggestions for a more comprehensive Topic about PSX-ACs?
I could be mistaken but I believe the circuit breakers on the PH180s are rated to trip in milliseconds where the PSX-ACs trip in nanoseconds. I think somewhere buried in the Forum, someone actually tested this and found it to be accurate, while someone else found that PH180s varied in their response times quite a bit. I used to save these useful threads to refer back to them. But I've gotten lazy and don't have the exact threads to point you to.
Don
Don, the PH180 (at least the older version), has a two-tier approach to overloads. Brief overloads may not trip the breaker, something like a wheels briefly touching the center rail in a switch. However, a direct short will immediately trip the breaker. The trip time is basically the speed of the relay, so it's a few milliseconds.
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