Fastrack switch issue "FIGURED IT OUT AND FIXED"

If it happens every time, I'd have to suspect they're factory mis-wired.

As John said, we have seen a few people on the form with this problem.

If these switches are new, return them for replacements, explaining the the non-derail feature is wired backwards.  If the are too old to return, you will need to remove the back of the switch.

Attached is the Lionel wiring diagram for Fastrack switches.  I marked the two wires that control the non-derail.  The wire attached to the straight route should be blue and should go to pin 3 on the plug.  The curved route is green, attached to pin 4.  If this is not correct, pry up the rail tabs and swap the wires.

Let us know how you make out.

Thanks for the info and the file, I will look into them tomorrow.  I did just purchase these from local Hobby shop. It does happen every time.  Thanks again Dan and John. 

I'd take them back and ask to test the next set.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd take them back and ask to test the next set.

I think I will,  just odd 2 out of 5 switches are doing this, my old layout about 10 years ago the fastrack switches were bullet proof.  

Danr posted:

As John said, we have seen a few people on the form with this problem.

If these switches are new, return them for replacements, explaining the the non-derail feature is wired backwards.  If the are too old to return, you will need to remove the back of the switch.

Attached is the Lionel wiring diagram for Fastrack switches.  I marked the two wires that control the non-derail.  The wire attached to the straight route should be blue and should go to pin 3 on the plug.  The curved route is green, attached to pin 4.  If this is not correct, pry up the rail tabs and swap the wires.

Let us know how you make out.

It's more involved than just the blue and green wires being switched. If you notice in the video, the indicator lights on the remote controller are backwards as well. IIRC the two motor wires are reversed and the molex plugs for the microswitches are as well.

At least that is what I did to reverse the indicator lights so green was diverging and red was straight through.

I had purchased 7 048 Fastrack turnouts and everyone was wired wrong and every one was wired wrong differently. I even had one that the metal cover was touching the motherboard. After insulating the metal cover at the motherboard that turnout worked correctly. And thanks to the great people on this forum that had helped me correct my problems.

UPDATE TO WHAT WAS DISCOVERED. The O48 turnout had one wire that was loose. I took the O60 switch back to the store I purchased from.  For that switch we took the plate on the bottom off and after 45 minutes of tracing wires discovered two sets of wires backwards from the gear area to the motherboard.  We swapped them, that fixed the red/green light on the hand throw but the non detailer was still not working properly,  so the switch is going back to Lionel and I should receive a new one In a few weeks,  I hope. 

Case closed on these issues,  thanks for everyone's advice.  Nick T. 

Well I discovered another O60 switch with the same issues.  Since I am waiting for a replacement on the 1st switch I took matters in my own hands.  1st i swapped out the 2 center plugs on the mother board with each other.  That fixed the lantern light and the hand switch.  Green in the right direction as was the red. However then the switch motor would not work.  Could only switch manually.  Here is the photos of the plugs that I swapped on the motherboard.  

So to fix the switch motor I figured the yellow wire and the red wire connected to the motor had to be backwards.  So I unsodered the two wires and swapped them out. Reassemble the motor and cover plate, hooked the switch back into the layout and wallah.  It works as it should.  Here is a pic of the wires to the motor before being swapped.  

So if you have any switch issues like I had it was not overly a difficult fix, I did improve my solder skills.  If you have any questions contact me and I will try my best to help.  Nick. 

The last pic is Lola's surprise look after I shouted gratitude for a correct operating switch.  

I can't believe how much @%$& is stuffed inside a FT switch. WOW!

Nice detective work and Lola approved too!

Buffy is always a big help with projects here:

{That electric heater was indeed turned on.}

I reverse the yellow and red motor wires in the molex plug instead of re-soldering at the motor:

geysergazer posted:

Buffy is always a big help with projects here:

       

{That electric heater was indeed turned on.}

I reverse the yellow and red motor wires in the molex plug instead of re-soldering at the motor:

        

I never thought or new that I could reverse the wiring molex plug. Good point. Buffy looks like she is enjoying the heater.

We get a lot of problems, but very few “figured it out and FIXED”.

Good for you.

jerry 

Lew, how do you remove and then insert the wires in the molex plug; special tools, etc????

I just use a pointed knife-tip to lift the plastic locking tab while pulling on the wire. The nylon is flexible enough to permit that without damage.

RickM46 posted:

Lew, how do you remove and then insert the wires in the molex plug; special tools, etc????

I use a small jewelers screwdriver inserted in the shell of the plug to release the little clip holding the pin in place. Takes a little finagling (technical term) but they usually can be released.  I did it on a WbB engine recently to change it to series wired motors.

Notice the little clip on the back side of the yellow wire? That's what you are trying to release.

This isn't the molex plug for the motor but it'll do:

Inserting the blade under the white tab and lifting releases the metal terminal from the housing and the wire can be pulled to the left sliding the terminal out.

Thanks gentlemen!!

Looking for help. I have a 45" straight Track module with two 072 inch Left Hand Remote/Command Switches, connecting two track loops the inner one is 36" and the outer loop 48". I am using a GW-180 as my power source for both loops at present. Switches were installed an on this new 45" straight module ( I have 2, 45" straight and 4 30" small corner units which have already been to shows) they were tested and worked fine for three days. I then started to modify the remote controller units that came with the switches. the mode was to cut the cable the goes between the switch and the controller then add some Anderson PowerPole connectors so that the controller unit could be placed on a command table yet to be built. First unit mod went fine, second unit I now have problems. I did the same cut and add of the connectors, when I went to test the second controller did not light and did not activate switch. took the second controller and plugged it into the first switches connectors and it worked fine. Then I took the first switches known good controller plugged it to the second switch and got the same failure. That made me believe that my problem was in the second switch.  Opened up the second switch after downloading the posted wiring diagram. Found that the yellow wire attachment point for the cable coming into the switch was intermittent took wire tinned it and reattached it and screwed back down an then retested it. Now had lights in the remote controller unit. However now had a different problem. If switch is in the turn/red position and I throw the remote to move to the straight/green position everything works fine. If I now throw the lever down on the remote to ask it to go back to turn/red nothing happens. Same result with other controller. With the switch opened up again I checked to see if the plastic triangle activates the micro switch, it does, however with either remote controller is connected same result, Can not get it to activate from green to red. Does show if I do it manually but not when requested by remote controller.

I am a software person who only knows electronics to get myself in trouble, need help!! this could be a case of infant mortality switch only had at most 4 hours on them. The switches and track are getting a measured 17 volt .002amps 

Thanks to all who try and help me.

Try shorting (jumpering) between an outside rail (ground) and the short "non-derail" activating rail on the curved end of the switch. If it then throws to "curve" (red) then the problem is an open solder joint or broken wire in the red path.

ON EDIT: From the rail the screwdriver is pointing to, to GROUND (outside rail), NOT to the center (power) rail.

Thank you Geysergazer for the quick response:

I tried what you asked and the switch did activate and throw from green to red. Since the remote controller work with the other switch , that says to me the problem is inside the switch machine. I need to flip it upside down again and open it up. because of the heat I have been working on this in the mornings. I had been working on the problem and taken a meter and check continuity from the powerpole connectors to the screw where the controller cable is screwed down. I also checked the copper item on the inner side of the red wire screw. 

I think I am going about this the right way? Will continue tomorrow.

Thanks again JimHa

The switches are awesome looking. However, i quickly learned the are NOT non-derailing like advertised. I had the Polar Express fall off 2nd level while going thru a wye switch. Broke both the bell and whistle. Ordered replacements from Lionel and replaced.

Joe Gozzo

It could be the wire between your quick-disconnect and the terminal block on the track switch. It could be a bad solder joint on the "red" terminal. If neither of those then it is possible that a circuit on the electronics board has failed. Input from the remote control does enter the board separately from "non-derailing" input .

@geysergazer posted:

It's more involved than just the blue and green wires being switched. If you notice in the video, the indicator lights on the remote controller are backwards as well. IIRC the two motor wires are reversed and the molex plugs for the microswitches are as well.

At least that is what I did to reverse the indicator lights so green was diverging and red was straight through.

Either the sentence or the turnout needs some rewiring it seems

Green is supposed to be straight, red for diverging.

This thread does have some good wide angle shots putting it all in great perspective. I've seen tons of close ups, that's old (still nice tight focus on those too. I wish mine was better at micro subjects).

I usually use hat pins to get at plug tabs. They tend to do less critical damage even if it's a spastic oops moment and a boody finger vs plug. Thick enough to be tack hammered though melted plugs, etc. ...and even when it does some damage to plug shape, etc, it usually leaves enough plug intact to function again. It's damage ability to the terminal is limited by it's own size too.

Most plugs use a tool specific to the plug style. Some tools are more generic, some more proprietary.  Mostly it's a round or square telescoping tube that slides beteen plug and terminal and presses the tabs down, then as you keep pushing past the tools spring pressure, a slug slides into the tube and pushes the terminal out of the plug.

 Just like an apple coring tool or peeler, it seems unnecessary until you know how great they can actually be to use to bake even one pie. Then suddenly it's recalled how worth it they can be  .. 

Wire gauge tools and wire welding tip cleaners work well too sometimes as do small nails inserted into the sm slots/holes next to the terminal.

Very few terminal releases happen from the wire side of terminal/plugs.

"Green is supposed to be straight, red for diverging."

WRT the remote controller and associated wiring, yes of course. BUT the two wires between the "non-derail" rails and the circuit board are, indeed, green and blue. Lionel engineering might explain but I can't. I just deal with what is there. 

Thank You: to all who have helped to give me an education on the internals of the Lionel Remote/Command Switches. 

I did do some debugging this morning and I did find my problems. The folk who did the original assembly did what I would call a poor job. I found 3 thing that I changed and the switch and the remote controller are now working fine. Including with the PowerPole connectors. on both switches on that module. Item 1 was actually found yesterday and was reconnecting the Yellow wire to grey connection blocks inside the switch. what I found was the wire had not been stripped enough and fed properly under the clamping copper under the nut and tightening screw. Item 2 found the same problem with the Red wire as well. Looks like the assembler stripped the wire end and shoved into place but was not making sure it went in and under before tightening it down. The wire mostly bunched up into a ball and made an intermittent connection. Red just fell off when I touched it. Once I had inserted correctly and tightened down, I was able to verify continuity to both sides of the grey attachment block. Then I check the Black and Green and made sure they were correct. The third item was the red wire itself from the attachment block to the PowerPole connection. It failed the continuity check, this was problem 3, so I cut it out and replaced it with a new red wire. Recheck everything with power before buttoning it up for the fourth time. Then re-positioned all of the track for that module and tested everything again. It Works !!! 

Again Thanks everyone.

My (admittedly limited) experience with FASTRACK switches with O48 curvatures was 100% perfect out of the box and onto the layout. Never had a problem in operation. 

However, this recent thread shows that the manufacturer in China may be "asleep at the switch" during assembly and wiring.  A very helpful suggestion to check the action of FASTRACK switches at the dealership before taking them home and installing them in place. 

Kudos to the operators who could "boldly go where no one has gone before" and achieve a positive result. 

Mike Mottler   LCCA 12394

Swapping the blue and green wires fixed my O60 switch de-railer issues.  Quick, easy and no trip to Charles RO.  Thank you.