Fastrack Switch Wiring - track jumper works but aux connection doesn't?

FYI - this is my layout page -

http://www.thesousas.com/trains/

Hi Greg. Did you ever figure your issues out? I am having all kinds of electrical issues with my 072 fastrack switches.

There is a history of Lionel Fastrack remote track-switches sometimes having their terminal blocks assembled incorrectly at the factory. Any time there is an issue it is best to start with checking this out. Take the bottom cover off the offending switch and check that the wire yellow wire from the "AUX GND" terminal goes to an outer rail jumper-bar. "AUX IN" should go to the circuit board (this red wire has a fuse in it hidden under a bit of shrink-tubing) and "TRACK JUMPER" to the center-rail jumper-bar.

The terminal block is actually three single terminals assembled together:

If found in an incorrect order the terminal block can be easily assembled correctly.

Thank you, Lew. That is very helpful!

Lew,

I am having problems trying to use fixed voltage aux power for my O-36 Remote Fastrack switches.  I have 4 switches and after removing the jumpers I wired each one with the Aux In connected to the B terminal on my ZW transformer.  The A terminal on the ZW is track power.  But when I test it, both the B terminal and A terminal controls do the exact same thing- they each run the train.

Per your comments above I took the back off one of the switches and took these photos of the wiring:

Is it possible to tell if there is a problem with the wiring from these pictures?

Any suggestions for what the problem may be?

Thanks, BZ

Take a look at this Lionel document and see if your switches are mis-wired.

Corrections for Fastrack Remote Switches that short out when using auxiliary power

@BZ posted:

Lew,

I am having problems trying to use fixed voltage aux power for my O-36 Remote Fastrack switches.  I have 4 switches and after removing the jumpers I wired each one with the Aux In connected to the B terminal on my ZW transformer.  The A terminal on the ZW is track power.  But when I test it, both the B terminal and A terminal controls do the exact same thing- they each run the train.

Per your comments above I took the back off one of the switches and took these photos of the wiring:

Is it possible to tell if there is a problem with the wiring from these pictures?

Any suggestions for what the problem may be?

Thanks, BZ

EDIT [Going by these pictures, this switch appears to be wired correctly (factory and user).  If any one of the others is wired incorrectly from the factory (see John's post for correct wiring) that could be the cause.   If all switches are wired internally like the one in your pictures, then]:

There could be an internal short in one of the switches between the Aux Power and Track power wires or terminals.

My suggestion would be:

1) detach each switch individually from all other switch wiring (except for the remote) and physically from adjacent track connections

2) using a power source (ZW) with all other connections removed,

3) attach U post to O36 switch's either Aux Ground or with alligator leads to outer rail pin

4) A or B post connected to Aux Power In

5) With Multi-meter or working incandescent light bulb check for AC voltage between center and outer (non-isolated) Switch rails.

If no voltage is found here and switch operates, then it's good.  Check all 4 switches until you find one that is shorting power from Aux in to the Center Rail.

If you do find a switch with a short we can talk more about that.

Gunrunnerjohn, Appreciate the document.  The picture of incorrect wiring in that document is easy to see but when I looked at my switch with the cover removed there are so many wires its hard for me to see where the connections for the 3 position terminal block go.

SteveH, Thanks for the diagnostic steps.  I plan to do those but not sure when I will get them completed.

@BZ posted:

Gunrunnerjohn, Appreciate the document.  The picture of incorrect wiring in that document is easy to see but when I looked at my switch with the cover removed there are so many wires its hard for me to see where the connections for the 3 position terminal block go.

BZ, rather than visually checking where wires go, if you know where they're supposed to go it's usually much faster to use a continuity checker as can be found on a multi-meter.  It has the added benefit of informing you if that connection is  actually good.  If you don't have one, it's a great $10 investment in this hobby.

I’ve run into the same problem with some 072 switches I just bought. The wires to the “Track power” and “Aux in” terminals are reversed in all 4 switches.  When I tried to hook up  external power as stated in the instructions no joy, so I did some continuity checks and found the wiring error. When I fed power to the “Track Power” terminal the switches came to life. I’m a ‘tronics guy  so rewiring the switches isn’t a problem for me, but I’m also lazy, so for now I’ve just wired them as they are and they work fine.

@John SW posted:

I’ve run into the same problem with some 072 switches I just bought. The wires to the “Track power” and “Aux in” terminals are reversed in all 4 switches.  When I tried to hook up  external power as stated in the instructions no joy, so I did some continuity checks and found the wiring error. When I fed power to the “Track Power” terminal the switches came to life. I’m a ‘tronics guy  so rewiring the switches isn’t a problem for me, but I’m also lazy, so for now I’ve just wired them as they are and they work fine.

I found the same issue on a bunch of O31 and 36 FT switches.  Funny thing, the stamped labels on the bottom are wrong, but the instruction manual had the actual as wired configuration listed correctly.  When I opened them up to re-orient the terminals (like Lew did) I discovered that the track power wire was soldered to the center rail buss such that the wire was too short to reach to the terminal position as stamped on the bottom of the switch.  Rather than open-up and re-solder a bunch of them, I just re-labeled the as-wired at the factory positions on the bottom.

@SteveH posted:

BZ, rather than visually checking where wires go, if you know where they're supposed to go it's usually much faster to use a continuity checker as can be found on a multi-meter.  It has the added benefit of informing you if that connection is  actually good.  If you don't have one, it's a great $10 investment in this hobby.

Great suggestion, thank you.  Yes, I have an old analog Multi-Meter.

From JohnSW "I’ve run into the same problem with some 072 switches I just bought. The wires to the “Track power” and “Aux in” terminals are reversed in all 4 switches.  When I tried to hook up  external power as stated in the instructions no joy, so I did some continuity checks and found the wiring error. When I fed power to the “Track Power” terminal the switches came to life. I’m a ‘tronics guy  so rewiring the switches isn’t a problem for me, but I’m also lazy, so for now I’ve just wired them as they are and they work fine."

From SteveH "I found the same issue on a bunch of O31 and 36 FT switches.  Funny thing, the stamped labels on the bottom are wrong, but the instruction manual had the actual as wired configuration listed correctly.  When I opened them up to re-orient the terminals (like Lew did) I discovered that the track power wire was soldered to the center rail buss such that the wire was too short to reach to the terminal position as stamped on the bottom of the switch.  Rather than open-up and re-solder a bunch of them, I just re-labeled the as-wired at the factory positions on the bottom."

I hope my problems can be fixed by something this simple.  Makes me wonder where is Lionel Quality Control?

@SteveH posted:

EDIT [Going by these pictures, this switch appears to be wired correctly (factory and user).  If any one of the others is wired incorrectly from the factory (see John's post for correct wiring) that could be the cause.   If all switches are wired internally like the one in your pictures, then]:

There could be an internal short in one of the switches between the Aux Power and Track power wires or terminals.

My suggestion would be:

1) detach each switch individually from all other switch wiring (except for the remote) and physically from adjacent track connections

2) using a power source (ZW) with all other connections removed,

3) attach U post to O36 switch's either Aux Ground or with alligator leads to outer rail pin

4) A or B post connected to Aux Power In

5) With Multi-meter or working incandescent light bulb check for AC voltage between center and outer (non-isolated) Switch rails.

If no voltage is found here and switch operates, then it's good.  Check all 4 switches until you find one that is shorting power from Aux in to the Center Rail.

If you do find a switch with a short we can talk more about that.

I finally tested all 4 switches using your methodology.  Two of the four are good and two are bad- there is voltage between center rail and outside rail.

Both of the bad switches were purchased on-line at the same time from the same dealer.

What do you recommend?

Thanks  BZ

@SteveH posted:

@BZ  .....  Are you saying that when you checked the 2 bad turnouts were they disconnected from all other track and you supplied power to their alleged "Aux Power" terminal and  measured voltage between the center and outer rails? .....  YES, this is exactly what I did.

Did did you also check to see if the switch operated with the remote?  NO, I did not do that.  Will go back and check this.

Thank you for all the help.

Why is Lionel walking away from this acknowledged factory default?  That  instruction sheet is similar to the recall instructions car dealer mechanics  get for factory based problems.

There are many  modelers in their client demographic who have challenges with vision and manual dexterity.

These turnouts should be recalled.

Lionel might step up their QC once FedEx delivers 300 or 3000 defective switches to their door.

This is not just Lionel.  I am dealing with a similar problem in a totally unrelated field and manufacture reps think they can just step away from responsibility and leave the problem in the customer's lap.

In my situation I returned bad product and am simply changing vendors.

SteveH,

I just retested all 4 switches.  For the 2 questionable switches which showed a voltage between the center rail and outside rail, the remote controls are not working and the switch is not switching.  This is with power provided via the Aux In terminal, ground wire attached to an outside rail, and the switches physically disconnected from the other track.

For the other 2 switches, with power provided via the Aux In terminal, ground wire attached to an outside rail, and the switches physically disconnected from the other track:  1)- There is no voltage between the center rail and outside rail.  2)- The switches do light up, the remote controls work, and the switches switch.

The reason I want to use Aux power is 1 of the 4 switches was operating intermittently using track power while the other 3 operated okay.  I am running a post war train with conventional transformer control so I assumed using fixed voltage power would make that one switch operate properly.  It did operate properly when I tested it just now but I had to supply a higher voltage (approx 13 vs 10 volts) than to the other correctly wired switch- hopefully a normal variation.

@BZ Good write-up of your testing and results. Looks like you've verified that 2 switches are good to go.

The next thing to check on the 2 questionable switches is what is actually connected to what inside them.  Start by disconnecting these 2 turnouts from everything including any wired connections. Stick a piece of masking or painters tape on the bottom plate next to the 3 power terminals with room to write on it with a marker.  Set your meter to check for continuity.

1) With one meter probe on an outside rail of the converged end of the turnout, find which of the 3 power terminals is connected.  Label this one ground.

2) With one meter probe on the center rail, find the power terminal that has continuity.  Label this Track Power.

3) Label the remaining terminal as Aux Power

4) Check to see is there is continuity between Aux and Track, there shouldn't be.  If there is, then there's an internal short. If not, then you can make your aux connections to the Turnout as you've labelled it and you should now be able to run your Locos with variable voltage on the tracks with separate Aux power to the switches.

As far as Aux voltage level to the switches, I've found 16 volts works well and provides reliable operation.

I just bought 2 comamd 072 swithces off ebay to see if I would like to stick possibly with my fastrack. this way I can use the lcs app for my switch pannels. hope these are not from the bad batch. does any body know if brand new  lionel switches have all the issuse worked out.

btw are these switches reliable over time? once installed on a layout they would be a PITA to remove thats for sure.

sanjam in one of his videos also had a small issue with the throw bar. it had a plastic nub that needed to be cut off.

these issues are why I bought these used switches. they looked bearly used and they were $50 a switch. so if I found I did not want to build my layout with them after all. I was not out much money.

since I would like to use the lcs app and already use fastrack on my current layout adding on to my current layout using all 080 and 072 stuff might be the way I go. I also priced the lcs asc2 box and other switch brands combined. the cost per switch was higher than a CC 072 or 060 switch by itself. this would add up quickly with the layout I am planning.

I still am on the fence about my next big track decision and this thead has given me some more to think about when it comes to going fastrack.

@Lionelzwl2012 Whether "brand new" switches are actually that, depends on how long they've been in the distributor's and dealer's inventory.  The issues described in this post, in my experience have been with O31 and O36 "Remote/Command Switch" variations.

@Lionelzwl2012 posted:

I just bought 2 comamd 072 swithces off ebay to see if I would like to stick possibly with my fastrack. this way I can use the lcs app for my switch pannels. hope these are not from the bad batch. does any body know if brand new  lionel switches have all the issuse worked out.

btw are these switches reliable over time? once installed on a layout they would be a PITA to remove thats for sure.

sanjam in one of his videos also had a small issue with the throw bar. it had a plastic nub that needed to be cut off.

these issues are why I bought these used switches. they looked bearly used and they were $50 a switch. so if I found I did not want to build my layout with them after all. I was not out much money.

since I would like to use the lcs app and already use fastrack on my current layout adding on to my current layout using all 080 and 072 stuff might be the way I go. I also priced the lcs asc2 box and other switch brands combined. the cost per switch was higher than a CC 072 or 060 switch by itself. this would add up quickly with the layout I am planning.

I still am on the fence about my next big track decision and this thead has given me some more to think about when it comes to going fastrack.

Are they reliable over time?

Who knows anymore.
Most of us like modifying new things to our taste but constantly having to fix factory errors is wrong, period.

SteveH, Finally fixed!

With one meter probe on an outside rail of the converged end of the turnout, find which of the 3 power terminals is connected.  Label this one ground.  Terminal that Lionel marked Ground is Ground

With one meter probe on the center rail, find the power terminal that has continuity.  Label this Track Power.  Terminal that Lionel marked Aux Power is actually Track Power.

Label the remaining terminal as Aux Power.  Terminal Lionel marked Track Power is actually Aux Power.

Check to see is there is continuity between Aux and Track, there shouldn't be.  There is no continuity between Aux and Track.

If there is, then there's an internal short. If not, then you can make your aux connections to the Turnout as you've labelled it and you should now be able to run your Locos with variable voltage on the tracks with separate Aux power to the switches.  Yes, my Aux Power wire is connected to what Lionel labeled Track Power and everything is working correctly.  Thank you very much for the help.

As far as Aux voltage level to the switches, I've found 16 volts works well and provides reliable operation.  All 4 of my switches work well with 16 volts.

@BZ posted:

SteveH, Finally fixed! .. All 4 of my switches work well with 16 volts.

BZ, I'm glad you got them working.  Thanks for letting us know.

Just adding info: I have new switches purchased within the last 12 months and there are still QC issues I found my two red wires on 6 switches crossed. The bulletin that was shared was 7 years ago. Disappointing that Lionel would not have put quality control in place many years later.

So the link that was shared with the bulletin is still very relevant! You folks are very kind and helpful to newbs

Hello.  I just bought some FasTrack O72 switches from Charles RO on Oct 15 2021 and I had this exact problem.  Thank you all for contributing  and helping me solve this issue.  I used Lew's method of swapping terminal block positions to solve the issue versus the re-soldering suggested by the Lionel service bulletin.   Thanks again.