Fastrack Switches - Need Help - Thank You

Let me guess... a CW-80 transformer?

 

Get the date code from the bottom and report back.  I can get your switches to work.

Nope. A ZW-C. Also tried a BW-80. Nothing with either.

There is no GND terminal or red post on a ZW-C.

 

If you have left and right switches, it is very easy to switch the GND & AUX connections on the switches, as they are mirror imaged.  Recheck this again too.

 

If you are using a common ground wiring scheme on your layout, the connection to the "GND" terminal at the switch is superfluous.  Eliminating this can simplify your wiring quite a bit.

Yes, I now. Black wire is on a U terminal, red on the B post. The BW-80 has red and black terminals like a CW-80.

Confirm voltage output at B-U?

Yes. I have the optional volt/ammeter on the ZW and it shows 18 volts output. Also, that is why I tried the BW-80 to confirm that it was not a transformer issue.

 

I have three loops on the layout. Each has it's own ground and power connections. This loop has three drops.

All three switches are RH.

Well it usually has to be the things you did last...connected the aux power, or connected the controller.

Measure the switch power at the switch.

Are the loops connected?  Do you have a track diagram to share?  Are all loops controlled from the ZW-C?

 

If you are using the ZW meter accessory, you don't have an easily identifiable common ground scheme by default due to a major oversight in the implementation of the design.

The three loops are independant and not connected. The outer loop and inner loop are controlled by the ZW, A-U and D-U. The elevated loop is controlled by the BW-80. The outside loop and elevated loop have no switches. I have seperate grounds for each loop. Only the inner loop has switches.

 

Yes, I understand that it is probably something I did. I'm having problems figuring out what that is, since I followed Lionel's instructions. I'm not sure, but I would assume that if the switches were getting power, the light on the switch should light. I think the yellow terminal/wire on the switch only powers the controller light. Is this correct?

Which jacks are your bricks plugged into, and does the meter show any voltage on the B-U circuit?

Mike, sounds like you have things hooked up right.  I would go to the first switch you have wired to the transformer.  Flip it over and and measure the AC voltage across the screws AUX GND and AUX IN.  You may have a connection issue right there.  I have experienced trouble under one of those screws before.  

 

 

How do the trains run on this loop?  If your wiring is connected as you say, the ammeters on your ZW should show equal outputs for the D-U and B-U circuits with trains running.

I am totally frustrated. Thinking of replacing the switches with manual ones. In my past life, I have converted 027 switches to constant voltage, wired up 027, 022, and Atlas switches, and never had any problems.

 

This morning, I flipped over the first switch, disconnected and carefully reconnected all wires including the controller wires, and still nothing. I then flipped it back over,disconnected the constant voltage wires, reinstalled the track power jumper, and still nothing. Trains runs fine on this loop. I'm baffled.

When you run trains on this loop, what do the D-U and B-U ammeters read?

 

This is important, because if they do not match, there is a clear disconnect between the B/U terminals and the AUX IN / AUX GND terminals of the first switch. 

 

As I stated earlier, the AUX GND connection is not necessary for your layout as there is a common ground across all 4 "U" terminals of the ZW, and the extra wires add to the complexity. 

 

This leaves you with just a one wire connection to each switch - from the "B" post, to each AUX IN terminal of the three switches.  They don't have to be home-run, daisy chained is fine with the low current of the FasTrack switches.

 

If you eliminate the AUX GND feed, the B-U meter will read voltage only, no amperage.  The amperage drawn by the switches(not much) will be added to the D-U meter.

Hi Mike, Don't change the switches yet. Yes the yellow controller wire is for the controller lamp. The switch will still light its lamp & nonderail works with controllers unhooked. Overall these are trouble free. It's unlikly all 3 switches are faulty.

  You say trains run fine on both inner & outer loops. That means you have power & ground to the rails, but you can still have some odd issues.

   Do an experiment for me. Take a jumper wire & hook it to the outside rails of both loops, which makes 100% sure the grounds are common. The switch is internally grounded so there is no need for a ground wire AUX GND. Take the track jumpers off & install your fixed volts wire to AUX IN. This means terminals AUX GND & TRACK JUMPER will be left vacant. Double check your controller wires: Yellow to RCS LIGHTS, red to OUT, black to GND, green to THRU. Do this on all 3 switches.

   Now, again run trains & make sure both loops can run trains properly.

    Now, take your AUX IN wire(S) & hold it to center rail of the outside loop with the throttle on 50% or so. You should see the laterns light & the switches should work. If so you know you infact actually have a common ground & the switches work. You know for sure you have power at the outside loop center rail because you just ran a train on it.

   Now, hook the AUX IN wires to the transformer. If no work you are not getting output from that transformer terminal.

    I'm going to touch on voltmeters. They can trick you on simple circuits sometimes, because you can measure voltage, but you actually have no current flow. One tool that is very old school is a test lamp, as they require current flow to light the bulb. For track & switch power issues they are hard to beat. With just a little practice you can get a good idea of track volts by the brightness of the bulb, just as you can from incandesant loco headlamps. Do not use test lamps for electronic circuit board diag as the bulb can draw too much current in this case. But in the diag you are doing they are hard to beat.

  Try this test & get back to us.

   Very best, Don Johnson

   

  

   

Thanks,Don. I'll try this.

Thank you to everyone for their help. All three switches are working fine now. I ended up disconnecting both the GND and In wires on all three switches. Doing some of the suggested checks, I found there was an issue of power to the switches. I made a new power drop for each switch connected to the Aux IN. Before dropping the the new wire through the table, I held it to the ceter rail with about 10 volts set on the transformer. Each switch and it's controller lit up. I then ran a new feed wire from the transformer to the new drops, checking each switch as I connected it. They all are working now. I removed the old drops and feeder lines from under the layout and threw them away. I was not able to determine what was wrong with the original wiring, but there you have it.

Hi Mike, That's fantastic! Glad you got them going. Sometimes it takes a bit of struggle, but you got it.

     Now, humor me for a moment. Let us see what you did... You verified your controllers were wired correctly. Then you powered the switch AUX IN with a known good power source- the center rail. Since the track ran trains we knew it was a good power & ground. So you determined the fault was in the wire(s) from transformer to switch aux power. Either it had a bad connector on it or it had a broken conductor inside the insulation. Replacing the wire was a good correction & should last a long time.

    Don't think this was simply trial & error. It was actually basic electrical trouble shooting using a few jumper wires & known good power/ground. As you found, you can trouble shoot these type circuits with no testers.

    That is really cool & I'm glad for your success.

       Very best, Don Johnson

   

I posted this on the "electrical forum" site and it may just confuse things more, but I think you should be aware of it...

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Not so fast!

 

I picked up a couple of O-36 remote control switches from my local distributer last week.  I tested each on a test track to verify that they light up and work.  I then flipped them over to re-wire them for constant voltage.  When I went to remove the factory installed track jumper, I noticed that the jumper was installed in the wrong position.  It was in the AUX GND to AUX in slots, not the TRACK JUMPER to AUX IN slots.  Oh well, I proceeded to wire them for constant voltage, installed them on my layout, and got immediate high current overload from my transformer and no operation from the switch (see the first post in this thread).

 

After a great deal of fumbling around, it was apparent that the switch was not assembled correctly and/or the AUX power slots were mislabeled.  Finally, I hooked up the my wiring as ACCESSORY POWER to AUX IN, and ACCESSORY GROUND to TRACK JUMPER.  Everything worked!

 

Would you believe BOTH switches were this way??

 

Even though I use a common ground, I chose to wire both AUX IN and AUX GND.  Had I used only the AUX IN connection and the track for ground, I don't think this problem would have surfaced.

So AUX GND and TRACK JUMPER were reversed internally...and when you hooked them up as labeled, you apparently connected ACC GND (connected to the black wire from your transformer) to the center rail (which is TRACK JUMPER and generally the red wire from the transformer) and shorted out the transformer.

I'm curious, were these the new wireless TMCC remote switches or just the remote switches that you can switch with the controller?

Also was the position of the labels from left to right TRACK JUMPER-AUX IN-AUX GND? Or was the labeling wrong...(different from earlier remote switches that I have)?

Chuck,

 

Yes I believe that they were reversed internally.

 

The switches are remote switches with controller, not wireless.  Part number for the right-hand switch is 6-12046.

 

The switches have been wired/screwed into my platform but here is what I know for sure:

 

When the switch arrived, it worked on my test track using track power and ground.

After this, I noticed that the track jumper was NOT in the position marked for it, but spanned the AUX IN to AUX GND labeled positions. (see previous post for more).  The labeling on the switch agreed with the labeling in the owner's manual.

 

Hard to believe - but if you get a switch with the track jumper in the wrong slots, you may have a problem.

Ok. Thanks for the reply. Lionel keeps us on our toes

Great to know! Thanks!

Tony,
Thanks for posting that file.