Fastrack switches connected to insulated block sections

You need to include the switch in one of the blocks. The lead roller is probably on the insulated frog when the trailing roller leaves the block, or the engine isn't long enough to span the switch.If you are insulating with 1 3/8" sections, just put the wire back in one of the three.

Thanks John.  I knew it had to be a simple solution.

I assumed you meant all four switches need to be included in a block, so I connected the middle wire of the insulated track on one end of each switch.  All I got out of that was bleed thru among the blocks, such as block 4 is powered when only block 1 is turned on.  Each pair of switches are connected to each other with a track section.  Thinking that might be the source of the power problem, I used my Dremel tool to cut a slot in the middle rail of each section to isolate the switches from each other.  That made no difference.  I am now at a complete loss as to what to do next.   But I am very close to not using the layout this Christmas.  I never had a block problem with Gargraves track and Ross Switches.  I changed to Lionel because my tin plate engines would frequently derail on Ross O31 switches.  Apparently, the problem is associated with switches and blocks, but where to go from here I have no clue.

Perhaps a simple diagram of your layout indicating where you have insulated the center rails and where your power drops are?

I think I have an RRtrack diagram.  Will try to post it.

Shown is the RRTrack diagram.  The terminal block sections, four,  are shown (located mid-way between the loops.  The "Xs" represent the insulated block tracks; there are 8.  I was never able to get this program to fully represent the actual layout.  For instance, there are two half curves separating the two left hand switches.  On the program those would not fit.  I am using a ZW transformer with the left hand control powering blocks 1 & 2; the right hand control for blocks 3 & 4.  Block one is the left outside loop; block 2, right outside loop.  Block 3 is left inside loop and Block 4 right inside loop.

If I am interpreting your diagram correctly, it looks like you have no track power between the "X"'s on your switches.

if each X is where you have isolated the center rail, I don't see how track power gets to the rails through the switches.  Maybe I am just reading it incorrectly, but in order to get power to the rails through your switches, you need to connect the center rails at one X only per set of switches, which is what John H mentioned above.  Not all 4 per set of switches, just one of the four.

I am not sure what effect the dremel tool cut has, because I do not know where that cut was done.

It looks like you have too many blocks breaks.  You will not get power.  I have attached a markup of your image.  Remove two blocks on the ends as shown with the highlighter.  Then add one between the switches.  This will make each switch part of one of the blocks.  This will power the switch.  I would simplify it further by just putting one break in-between the switches and make just two independent blocks. 

I agree with MRMOE50. The switch crossover sets have no track power.

Are you trying to isolate the two loops from one another and prevent transformer bridging when crossing over?

For conventional operation of two trains you only need a 6-12073 or a 6-12060 with the center wire pulled between the switches in the diverging crossover area. Then, try to match the voltage of the two transformers of the two loops when you crossover.

Using the AUX connection does not provide track power for the FasTrack switches. That is expected on the rail connections.

That's going to mess up the track fitment on the inner loop.

try this. RRT attached. I think the inventory is close.

Miken posted:  I would simplify it further by just putting one break in-between the switches and make just two independent blocks. 

By having 4 blocks I can park a train in block 3 and run another in and out on blocks 1, 2, & 4.

MrMoe50 posted:

I am not sure what effect the dremel tool cut has, because I do not know where that cut was done.

I cut the center rail in the track section between each pair of switches, which simply isolates the switches electrically from each other.

Miken posted:

It looks like you have too many blocks breaks.  You will not get power.  I have attached a markup of your image.  Remove two blocks on the ends as shown with the highlighter.  Then add one between the switches.  This will make each switch part of one of the blocks.  This will power the switch.  I would simplify it further by just putting one break in-between the switches and make just two independent blocks. 

I have already done that (see my reply to another poster).  I want 4 blocks so I can park one train in block 3 and run another one on blocks 1,2&4; thus operating in and out of the loops.  I am not using Legacy to control the trains, so conventional all the way except I am using Legacy to control the switches to cut down on the amount of wiring on a portable layout.  If I can't get the four blocks to work, I will be just running one train on the inner loop and one on the outside, which means no need for the switches.  I could do the two block suggestion and run one train in and out, but I have hopes of two trains - one passenger and one freight.

Moonman posted:

I agree with MRMOE50. The switch crossover sets have no track power.

Are you trying to isolate the two loops from one another and prevent transformer bridging when crossing over?

For conventional operation of two trains you only need a 6-12073 or a 6-12060 with the center wire pulled between the switches in the diverging crossover area. Then, try to match the voltage of the two transformers of the two loops when you crossover.

Using the AUX connection does not provide track power for the FasTrack switches. That is expected on the rail connections.

That's going to mess up the track fitment on the inner loop.

try this. RRT attached. I think the inventory is close.

I am using one transformer, a ZW.  The outside left control powers blocks 1&2; outside right powers 3&4; inside left control powers the switches; and inside right powers village lights.

You need 6 block track sections and you need to position them so that both switches are in block 4.  You will then be able to turn off power to block 3 and run around 1,2and 4. This requires a SPST switch on the line from the transformer to block 3.  If you put another SPST switch on block 2, you could run 1,3and 4 and park an engine on 2. You could also run an engine on 1 and 2 and another on 3 and 4.

Also, on a layout on this size and based on the configuration of the switches, you will always have power to Block 1 and Block 4 (both contain your switches)and the fastrack switches don't require much power.  Therefore, you would not need to power them separately. 

With fastrack switches, there is usually a short transition track as part of the switch. Under this transition track, you can remove a connecting wire on the center rail, that replaces the need to cut the track section. You will see that this short track section already has a cut in the center rail. If you are using 036 switches, this additional short track section may not be there, and you would need to cut the center rail (my memory is unclear on this).

what type of switches are you using?

Regardless, as mentioned above, each switch must be part of one of your 4 blocks. It is normal to separate the blocks at the crossover track between the loops as mentioned, then simply create two other center rail cuts to convert each of the outer and inner loops into two separate blocks.

Hope this helps. Please reply if you need more clarification. There are many places you can cut the center rail (or remove the wire under the short switch track section) to achieve your desired results. 

On my layout, I have over 40 fastrack switches and have only needed to make 1 center rail cut to isolate my track sections. The rest of the isolation requirements were accomplished by removing the center rail joiner wire under the switch short connection sections.

good luck: JK

The O36 switch does not have the extension piece.  He will have to buy either the block section or one of the small fitter pieces that come from the factory with a cut center rail and jumper wire. He also could make his own cut center rail block from any piece of fastrack.

Miken posted:

It looks like you have too many blocks breaks.  You will not get power.  I have attached a markup of your image.  Remove two blocks on the ends as shown with the highlighter.  Then add one between the switches.  This will make each switch part of one of the blocks.  This will power the switch.  I would simplify it further by just putting one break in-between the switches and make just two independent blocks. 

I have configured the layout as you suggested.  The engine now runs through three of the switches.   But it does not run thru the curve section on switch 4 (top of layout).  About the time the engine is half way thru it, sparks fly and the engine stops.  Not a derailment.  Looks like I am closer than before in getting this layout ready for the holidays, but I don't have a clue on that one switch.  It obviously looks o.k. to me.

Miken posted:

The O36 switch does not have the extension piece.  He will have to buy either the block section or one of the small fitter pieces that come from the factory with a cut center rail and jumper wire. He also could make his own cut center rail block from any piece of fastrack.

 

 

My switches are O31.  I cut the center rail on separate track sections connecting the switches.  At $100+ per switch I was not in a frame of mind to cut them, especially while they are under warranty.  

I had some problems with one Fastrack CC O72 switch that required me to open it up and solder a power feed the was loose.  Here are some other threads that might help with your switch.  The one problem child may need to be gone over to make sure there are no issues.

Sparks

Lionel Recommended fix for some older Switches

Screw Hitting power tab

Bill,

The sparks are probably from bridging. Make sure the handles are at the same voltage when you cross over. You can fry the bulbs in the passenger cars. Good to test with just an engine.

may want to just double check the switch power connections on the AUX terminal. You really don't need the common since you are using the same transformer.

On a side note, the actual length of the O31 switches is 11 3/8". They are 10" per early marketing material. RRT and SCARM have not been updated. If you add one the thru side end of the switch the track fitment will work out better.

The second link in my post is for using aux power on lionel 031 switches.  Some of them came from the factory wired incorrectly and you have to modify it to not spark with aux power.  I offer these as in his original comment once he go them running was that only one of the four switches was sparking. 

MikeN,

Nice job. He's almost there. I'll let you see it through.

Good luck, Bill!

Moonman posted:

Bill,

The sparks are probably from bridging. Make sure the handles are at the same voltage when you cross over. You can fry the bulbs in the passenger cars. Good to test with just an engine.

may want to just double check the switch power connections on the AUX terminal. You really don't need the common since you are using the same transformer.

On a side note, the actual length of the O31 switches is 11 3/8". They are 10" per early marketing material. RRT and SCARM have not been updated. If you add one the thru side end of the switch the track fitment will work out better.

Carl, please pardon my ignorance - what is RRT and SCARM?  I will check the AUX terminal.  Also, I need to run the engine in the same direction thru the other pair.  The engine I am using for testing is a 1989-1990 Lionel Pen. 0-3-0 switcher.  Forgotten the catalog # but it was Lionel's first Railsounds engine.  I will check owner's manual to verify min. curve radius.  Up till now it has only been run on my permanent layout on O72 & 042 curves.

Bill,

RR-Track and SCARM railroad modeling software. The early marketing literature used for updating the libraries had the O31 switch with a 10" length for the straight.

When you drop in the switch, you have to add a 1 3/8" manually in the software to equal the correct length.

measure one of your switches. I think that you'll find that it is 11 3/8" along the straight.

I didn't realize that you were using O31 switches. The track configurations that I offered had O36.

On the electrical issue, troubleshoot that switch with MikeN's suggestions. It could be a switch issue giving you trouble.

The thought on only pulling the hot wire came from ADCX Rob. Using the ZW like you are, all of the commons are tied together. The switch gets it's common from the outside rails. So, it saves a wire that you don't have to pull.

You may want to test with a conventional only engine to prevent cooking the railsounds board.

Moonman posted:

Bill,

RR-Track and SCARM railroad modeling software. The early marketing literature used for updating the libraries had the O31 switch with a 10" length for the straight.

When you drop in the switch, you have to add a 1 3/8" manually in the software to equal the correct length.

measure one of your switches. I think that you'll find that it is 11 3/8" along the straight.

I didn't realize that you were using O31 switches. The track configurations that I offered had O36.

On the electrical issue, troubleshoot that switch with MikeN's suggestions. It could be a switch issue giving you trouble.

The thought on only pulling the hot wire came from ADCX Rob. Using the ZW like you are, all of the commons are tied together. The switch gets it's common from the outside rails. So, it saves a wire that you don't have to pull.

You may want to test with a conventional only engine to prevent cooking the railsounds board.

Now I understand why my program layout does not match the actual one.

BILL HUDSON posted:

Moonman posted:

Bill,

RR-Track and SCARM railroad modeling software. The early marketing literature used for updating the libraries had the O31 switch with a 10" length for the straight.

When you drop in the switch, you have to add a 1 3/8" manually in the software to equal the correct length.

measure one of your switches. I think that you'll find that it is 11 3/8" along the straight.

I didn't realize that you were using O31 switches. The track configurations that I offered had O36.

On the electrical issue, troubleshoot that switch with MikeN's suggestions. It could be a switch issue giving you trouble.

The thought on only pulling the hot wire came from ADCX Rob. Using the ZW like you are, all of the commons are tied together. The switch gets it's common from the outside rails. So, it saves a wire that you don't have to pull.

You may want to test with a conventional only engine to prevent cooking the railsounds board.

Now I understand why my program layout does not match the actual one.

Yes, someone discovered the discrepancy last month and then the author of SCARM confirmed it with Lionel. I, also emailed Lionel and received the same response.

I ran a post-war Berkshire thru the same switch with no arching but the engine also stopped.  Pushing it by hand I could feel a restriction about in the middle of the switch, so I don't think it is an electrical issue.  But I do not see anything that looks suspicious.  Engine ran fine thru the other pair in the same curve orientation.  Any clues as to what to look for?

I have no idea on this problem.  All the other switches work, and this one does not. Did you try the switch off of the layout with a few pieces of track to see if it works on its own?  it might be out of gauge and binding the wheels

is it a pain to bench test it? Just try some continuity tests.

See if it works normally out the mix with some jumpers. If no take the back off. If yes, then there's no rail power off of the main.

There is a small resistor in the board power wire that acts likes a fusible link. There's around 15 or so small #0 screws to take out to remove the cover. The first spark may have smoked it. 

You can also check the wiring connections in general. There's a power wire that runs from the center rail. Check that it has continuity.

Also, with the switch out make sure there is power at one of the adjoining center rails  on the thru ends on the main.

I'll try to find the threads or photos. Can't find them now.

It's fairly intuitive. AUX power to the terminal and then to board. Wire from under center rail to terminal.

Think I’ll try this on my layout