http://fox13now.com/2017/01/24...es-into-fedex-truck/
Put another win in for the trains. Luckily, no one was seriously injured.
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Might be a win for the trains, but what is really messed up is no signal was active. This time, not the truck drivers fault.
Tony_V posted:Might be a win for the trains, but what is really messed up is no signal was active. This time, not the truck drivers fault.
Bizarre!!! The signals are activated AFTER the crash. What's up with that????
Major FRA investigation and subsequent litigation after THAT!!!!!
Hopefully the driver is okay other than shook up. It looks like he did okay. But now I would say Amtrak is in a bunch of trouble with that dash cam pic.
What concerns me is all of the boxes that flew out of the trailer that said "Atlas O F7 Diesel Locomotive"
Seriously, I hope everyone on the train and in the truck are okay.
Tom
rtraincollector posted:Hopefully the driver is okay other than shook up. It looks like he did okay. But now I would say Amtrak is in a bunch of trouble with that dash cam pic.
Amtrak had/has NOTHING to do with this! It is a commuter train in Utah. Were you not paying attention?
Hard to believe that no orders were issued in a safe and timely manner to notify all crews of a defective signal at this particular road crossing, a very lucky truck driver and train crew to avoid injury.
School buses stop a crossings and the driver hopefully looks both ways. Ever since that Amtrak train hit that gas tanker in Fort Lauderdale burning all those people alive in the middle 90's. I slow down and look both ways.
should big trucks do the same as school buses? Never assume the crossing gates are working.
Trucks carrying regulated materials do have to stop at crossings before proceeding. The accident happens quickly but, after watching the video a couple of times I'm not seeing any placards on the FedEx trailers. Accordingly, he would not have been required to stop. Note the FedEx truck directly in front of the police car carried no placards so he wasn't required to stop either.
Curt
No flashers and no gates. The snow could have done this.
Someone is going to get sued on this one.
superwarp1 posted:should big trucks do the same as school buses? Never assume the crossing gates are working.
This. In fact, never assume anything about a crossing. Approach with paranoia. If you are not paying attention, this is the kind of thing that will happen.
Pingman posted:Tony_V posted:Might be a win for the trains, but what is really messed up is no signal was active. This time, not the truck drivers fault.
Bizarre!!! The signals are activated AFTER the crash. What's up with that????
In a standard signal setup, there are three sections, a starting approach section, an island section encompassing the roadway, and going away approach section.
The approaches are made long enough to start signals at least 20 seconds or more before the train reaches the road crossing island at the highest anticipated train speed. Typically the approaches are about same length each side from the road crossing island. There are many ways to sense a train from classic wheels shunting rails to audio overlay etc. So when train hits the starting approach, either relays or now computer control starts the lights and gates. Train passes over the island and when last car leaves island section, the relays or computer turn off lights and raises gates. The going away approach is ignored, otherwise lights and gates would remain on until last car cleared the going away approach.
Will have await the UTA investigation, but would be surprised if it wasn't maintainer error, such as lifting wires or bypassing something and forgetting to reconnect etc. Approach circuitry is pretty reliable and would be unusual to think train couldn't break through ice to make rail to rail contact or that audio overlay wouldn't sense metal. Approaches have timers to allow for loss of shunt so even a short contact should have started the action, I believe.
I am sure there are signal maintainers here who will jump in with corrections to my missive, or tell me I am full......
Re-read the story. Whats strange is that it said if power failure that gates are programmed to go down. Unless things have changed, you have battery backup to keep things going until power restored, so gates and lights should have stayed off unless there was a train. And second, if things are working correctly, the lights and gates should have started almost immediately after the last car cleared the island, thinking there is train coming the other way now on same track. Of course if computer controlled as most new ones are, the computer may have timeouts built in to prevent false activations, never anticipating this scenario.
from the article:
""In the event of a power outage or lack of signal, crossing gates are programmed to default to the “down and active” position as a safety precaution. Preliminary information indicates the gates were affected by the severe ice and snow conditions at the time and were in the default “down and active” position, as they are programmed. After an employee responded to the location, the gates moved to the up position."
EscapeRocks posted:from the article:
""In the event of a power outage or lack of signal, crossing gates are programmed to default to the “down and active” position as a safety precaution. Preliminary information indicates the gates were affected by the severe ice and snow conditions at the time and were in the default “down and active” position, as they are programmed. After an employee responded to the location, the gates moved to the up position."
When a RR knows crossing gates are malfunctioning, do they notify their train crews using the route?
Do they notify the local police for crossing safety assistance? (Motorists stuck at these grade crossings with malfunctioning gates always want them up in a hurry) Or do they raise them themselves? In that case who controls traffic?
wtjohn posted:Hard to believe that no orders were issued in a safe and timely manner to notify all crews of a defective signal at this particular road crossing, a very lucky truck driver and train crew to avoid injury.
It's easy to believe if this was the first occurrence of the signal failing.
Watch the video over and over a few times. Note that there is apparently a Signal Maintainer's white truck parked at the roadside at the silver control house, on the railroad right-of-way. At about the 47 to 50 seconds mark in the video, the metal door opens on the silver control house, and an individual walks out of that silver house!
1) Was someone working on the crossing protection equipment in that silver house?
2) Did that someone who just exited the silver house after the crash, have something to do with why the flashing lights & gates did NOT work?
Something sure looks awfully fishy there!
You have a good eye HW. Unfortunately or fortunately you may be on to something..
I just wanted to add I've never seen a crossing flashers or gates fail on the main line(without notice) or for that matter wrong dangerous CTC signals.... Scary stuff.
That truck driver needs to seriously count his blessings. I'll bet that driver is having night mares. Wow!
Hot Water posted:Watch the video over and over a few times. Note that there is apparently a Signal Maintainer's white truck parked at the roadside at the silver control house, on the railroad right-of-way. At about the 47 to 50 seconds mark in the video, the metal door opens on the silver control house, and an individual walks out of that silver house!
1) Was someone working on the crossing protection equipment in that silver house?
2) Did that someone who just exited the silver house after the crash, have something to do with why the flashing lights & gates did NOT work?
Something sure looks awfully fishy there!
Well it would have to be a maintainer as I think they would be the only ones who would have keys to get into the bunalow.
Needless to say, he or they will be looking for a new line of work. Obviously they lost their "situational awareness" of train traffic movements.
I was taught that ANY highway-rail crossing was to be taken at BEST as a YIELD1 Plus be ready to stop if a see a train, or if it has gated which are dropping or down. I thought all commercial trucks had to stop at highway-rail crossings nationwide.
Hazardous Material Only has to stop at all RR crossings, except if that crossing is posted exempt.
Who owns the tracks here?
clem k posted:Hazardous Material Only has to stop at all RR crossings, except if that crossing is posted exempt.
What about buses with passengers?
Hot Water posted:Watch the video over and over a few times. Note that there is apparently a Signal Maintainer's white truck parked at the roadside at the silver control house, on the railroad right-of-way. At about the 47 to 50 seconds mark in the video, the metal door opens on the silver control house, and an individual walks out of that silver house!
1) Was someone working on the crossing protection equipment in that silver house?
2) Did that someone who just exited the silver house after the crash, have something to do with why the flashing lights & gates did NOT work?
Something sure looks awfully fishy there!
Hot Water, your right. I do notice what you mean. Signal and Crossing Gate Maintainers always have a scanner / radio with them to know where the trains are. So I find it weird how the Box is closed and then open. Also I think it's weird how the truck driver couldn't see any light of a train coming. Hope the engineer is ok. I see the passengers got whiplash, but no injuries? Isn't whiplash still an injury?
Dominic Mazoch posted:clem k posted:Hazardous Material Only has to stop at all RR crossings, except if that crossing is posted exempt.
What about buses with passengers?
Yes, commercial vehicles with passengers have to stop at the designated markings, then proceed with caution.
Matt Kirsch posted:wtjohn posted:Hard to believe that no orders were issued in a safe and timely manner to notify all crews of a defective signal at this particular road crossing, a very lucky truck driver and train crew to avoid injury.
It's easy to believe if this was the first occurrence of the signal failing.
If I were a crew member on this particular lead unit, I would always expect the signal and dispatcher personnel covering this territory to promptly notify my train as per the rules of any potential or real hazard. First occurrence or not, you rarely get a second chance on a high speed mainline, always safety first. No doubt, I would be stomping on a supervisor's desk, being very politically incorrect.
All drivers with a CDL should come to a full stop before crossing active tracks. The truck does not have to be carrying hazardous material. This is in 46.25.100 8 (a) (i). The regulations mandate suspension of a CDL if there is an accident involving a collision with a train. There is a mandate for all CDL drivers to look and insure they can clear tracks before crossing.
Tommy posted:All drivers with a CDL must come to a full stop before crossing active tracks. The truck does not have to be carrying hazardous material.
In what state is that?
I have a CDL A with passenger and hazmat endorsements , so I can pretty much drive anything except tankers and trucks with more than one trailer. If my truck is not carrying or required to be placarded for hazmat per the fed hazmat schedule, I don't have to stop. If I am HAZMAT, I have to stop at the mark or if not marked, the 50/15 foot rule.
If I am driving a bus or another passenger vehicle designed for 16 or more passengers I do have to stop. The same mark and 50/15 foot rule, hazard/flashing stop lights activated and open the door. Once I'm sure there's no train, I have to close the door, and proceed. After clear of tracks, I turn of my flashers, and go about my trip.
So far these rules apply everywhere I have operated as a CDL licensee.
Now then, with all that being said, I still use caution even if I don't have to stop
Tommy wrote:
All drivers with a CDL should come to a full stop before crossing active tracks. The truck does not have to be carrying hazardous material.
I have been a commercial driver for more than 28 years, this is news to me as well.
Doug
I live in Michigan and have had my CDL for over 20 years. Don't have to stop unless a bus or carrying hazardous material.
BobbyD posted:When a RR knows crossing gates are malfunctioning, do they notify their train crews using the route?
Do they notify the local police for crossing safety assistance? (Motorists stuck at these grade crossings with malfunctioning gates always want them up in a hurry) Or do they raise them themselves? In that case who controls traffic?
Yes, if they did know the warnings were malfunctioning, the dispatcher always notified us and gave instructions to stop and flag the crossing. The dispatcher will call a signal maintainer to come attend to and raise the gates when safe. If the maintainer arrives in time to take control of the gates and notifies the dispatcher of such, then the train would be allowed through at track speed.
Big Jim posted:BobbyD posted:When a RR knows crossing gates are malfunctioning, do they notify their train crews using the route?
Do they notify the local police for crossing safety assistance? (Motorists stuck at these grade crossings with malfunctioning gates always want them up in a hurry) Or do they raise them themselves? In that case who controls traffic?
Yes, if they did know the warnings were malfunctioning, the dispatcher always notified us and gave instructions to stop and flag the crossing. The dispatcher will call a signal maintainer to come attend to and raise the gates when safe. If the maintainer arrives in time to take control of the gates and notifies the dispatcher of such, then the train would be allowed through at track speed.
Thank you. It mentions the gates had come down in fail safe mode so someone raised them? At this point we do not know if it was a RR employee. Have been thru grade crossings where working gates failed while flashing or they failed down and police officers were there holding them up with RR employees while other staff was working on the control box. In many locations these are roads directly to hospitals.
Would be surprised if the RR did not need to notify the train crew the crossing signals and gates had failed. After the crash the lights suddenly come on? Very lucky no one was killed and hopefully no severe injuries.
BobbyD posted:Big Jim posted:BobbyD posted:When a RR knows crossing gates are malfunctioning, do they notify their train crews using the route?
Do they notify the local police for crossing safety assistance? (Motorists stuck at these grade crossings with malfunctioning gates always want them up in a hurry) Or do they raise them themselves? In that case who controls traffic?
Yes, if they did know the warnings were malfunctioning, the dispatcher always notified us and gave instructions to stop and flag the crossing. The dispatcher will call a signal maintainer to come attend to and raise the gates when safe. If the maintainer arrives in time to take control of the gates and notifies the dispatcher of such, then the train would be allowed through at track speed.
Thank you. It mentions the gates had come down in fail safe mode so someone raised them? At this point we do not know if it was a RR employee.
From the news story it sure seems as if it was the RR employee.
"After an employee responded to the location, the gates moved to the up position."
Forgetting the hows and whys:
The really scary thing is imagine if that truck wasn't there to take the hit with it's benign trailer. (meaning no hazmat, etc.)
From the video you can see the line of people in regular automobiles behind the truck, on a busy roadway, going about their days. This had the very real possibility of being a total disaster.
Back in the 60's I was asked to check on crossing rules. In New Jersey, busses and hazmat vehicles must come to a complete stop before the crossing. The driver must look both ways, then proceed across in lowest gear and not shift gears until clear of the crossing.
as quickly as the trailer was struck, the train was clearly in site, and CLOSE...so what was the truck driving looking at, and surely the train's horn was blowing?
Latest results of preliminary investigation: HUMAN ERROR!!!!
The Maintainer was called out to that location due to the gates and flashing warning lights being activated, with no trains. The Maintainer subsequently "turned off" the system so that the lights would stop and the gates would raise, however he did NOT follow proper protocols and safety procedures, thus when the commuter train came, the gates & lights were "disabled" by the Maintainer. Also, the train had been notified, and had reduced speed, but was unable top stop prior to the street crossing.
Steamer posted:as quickly as the trailer was struck, the train was clearly in site, and CLOSE...so what was the truck driving looking at, and surely the train's horn was blowing?
Based on my observations when driving over the last several years, he was looking at the vehicle in front of him and nothing else. He also likely had music blaring too loud to hear anything outside the vehicle, or was wearing earbuds or phones.
Too may people drive today and NEVER look beyond a car length or two in front of them. Makes for some interesting scenes when traffic stops and they don't see it coming until the guy in front of them hits the brakes. Or the interstate merge to one lane drill and they don't know anything about it until they get about 5 car lengths from the big flashing arrow sign. Evidently they didn't see any of the bright orange MERGE signs along the road for the last two miles. 
Might be the same thing in play here.
