FINALLY going to order some track. Questions!

Had you seen the posts on a new line of turnouts, both kit and 'ready-to-lay', in this forum back on August 8-9 ?    However [ unless his plans changed ] the Code 125 ones won't be available to mid-2013.

SZ

Jon,

depending on how you lay code 125 rail, RTR or hand laid, you may have trouble with some brands of wheel flanges hitting rail spike heads. I've had this problem with some Atlas wheelsets on hand laid code 125 track at the club.

though for simplicity and a rail profile closer to what is on the NY&LB, you really can't beat Atlas code 148 flextrack. if you are concerned about the discrepancies of Atlas turnouts compared to prototype ones, then either modify or hand build turnouts that are close to the viewer for more realistic detail.

Hi Jonathan

A time saving compromise that looks good is a mix of commercial flex track and Right-O-Way hand laid turnouts.  I lay the main with code 148 flex track and secondary track code 125.  I'd not use AtlasO turnouts again.  They are expensive and don't  look like the prototype due to frog and guard  rail attributes, and I've experienced operational issues.  On the few I've used in hidden areas I've had to rework them with supplemental feeder leads, cut and fill shorted insulated gaps, file down high frogs frog castings, and fabricate a replacement throw bar.      I recommend trying a couple of hand laid turnouts (to get past the learning curve) before making a final decision on AtlasO vs. hand laid.  

Ed Rappe

Jonathan,

I have to agree with Chris and Ed about the track. Atlas flex is getting expensive and harder to come by, but after ballasing and some weathering, looks pretty good. We have used it almost exclusively at the CV club. Micro Engineering is also acceptable, but tough to bend for curves. We use it for straight track only.

Atlas switches....Well....we have used them almost exclusively also, but they are a constant source of tweaking. Cleaning points and closure rails, filling frogs to eliminate wheel drop, checking guage & guard rail clearances, etc, etc. While we have had no major problems with them, they are a constant source of concern, plus the price is through the roof for what you're getting. We are seriously looking at the newer offerings just announced recently, and even hand-laying some ourselves. Weathering and superficial details can camoflage the Atlas shortcommings to them being more acceptable, but still not great for the price you pay.

Have fun.

Buzz  

Thanks to all for your input.  I had not considered the flange issue.  My older Walthers cars, which make up over half of my two rail car fleet have deeper flanges on the cars where the wheel sets had not been replaced.  I aslso didn't realize Atlas has issues with code 125 track either.

Jonathan

I haven't had any issues with AtlasO (or old Atlas/Roco O) wheel flanges hitting code 125 rail spike heads.  

Chris - have you checked the spikes and wheel sets on the club layout with an NMRA gauge to define the cause.

Ed Rappe

Ed,

The section of track in question is in midst of having a crossover installed, my first stab at scratchbuilding turnouts. At this point, since the scavenged turnouts are code 148 rail, the offending sections of code 125 rail will most likely be replaced.

I will re-check the issue of flange bumping on my next visit and report.

Admittedly, if it's not the spike heads, It may be misplaced ballast nuggets masquerading as spike heads.

Jonathan,

I have had a great deal of success sliding code 125 rail into old Atlas (Roco) tie strips. No problem with any wheel sets hitting the clamps. I then make turnouts using Lou Cross castings for frogs, points and guard rails. As Ed says, try it and you might like it. Kappler or Clover House ties match the Atlas in height. I found you cannot slide 125 rail into the new Atlas ties strips as they will not keep it upright. You can't get Old Pullman code 125 anymore and it was too wide in gauge anyway. Agree with Chris about the Micro Scale - I also use some for straights. I do buy their rail as they are the only source I am aware of for Code 125 rail and it matches Lou's castings very well. Check out my blog and if you look at older postings you will see the process I am using. Code 125 in the yard and on the branch. Code 140 on the main, using new Atlas and Lou's turnout parts. When you see black ties, those are old Atlas with the code 125 in place.

Jim Taverna

Jim I must say you have a spectacular layout.  Great construction and layout.

Jim,

Your doing the PRR justice from what I see in your pictures. A real treat for me since all I can manage is a Pennsy branchline.

Bob

Thanks Bob and Chris. It is surely a slow slog getting it done. Just had a work session with Keystone Ed tonight and talked about some more construction issues. I have to get more into wiring soon. That and trying to build those I1'sa's.

Chris - that is a super blog. I am really impressed. I wish I was as artistic in developing mine. You can tell I am an engineer - very straightforward.

Jim

Wow!! Is there a page with the track plan? Love the pics. Is that a loop up at the ceiling? Was that the layout Ed posted awhile back? Man it's really something!!

Thank you Jim I appreciate it.  I must say the more I look at your blog the more and more I see your fine attention to detail and quality of work....that double slip is a work of art....and yes....I am jealous.... 

Jim Taverna and I were members of the Capitol area Friday night O scale group and approaching retirement built homes in Williamsburg with O scale basements.  Jim models the PRR Northern Central line through Northumberland along with the fantastic Mt. Carmel branch.  My railroad tries to capture the feel of PRR Middle and Pittsburg Division operations between Huntingdon, PA, through Altoona and on up around the Horseshoe Curve to Gallitzen.  The railroad has elements of the Tyrone and Clearfield branch  serving coal mines in a valley just north of Altoona.  Both railroads feature suspended staging loops.  In the same Williamsburg community noted O scale C&O modeler John Roberts is building a Newport News waterfront theme railroad.  A lot of active O scale modeling for a small college town!

Ed Rappe

Joe,

I am trying to come up with a way to put the trackplan on the blog as I have had multiple requests for it. I will try to get that done in the next couple of months.

 As Ed says, we both have overhead loops but laid out differently. We work together on each other's layouts on Monday nights, a continuation of the tradition we had of meetings on Friday nights up in DC when we worked for a living.

 We are in the middle of trying to develop info on how much ballast we will need for our respective layouts. As you can tell by the size of my yard, I am going to need a lot of cinders! I am thinking I might put a base of sand down, glue it in place, paint the track and then put a thin layer of cinders on top to cut costs. Last Monday night, we talked about doing a small section as an experiment to see if that will work. If anyone has any other ideas, I would welcome them.

Jim

Jim,

By using sand as a base and then putting cinders on top of them, you are ballasting twice.  I believe that the cost in extra time far outweighs the cost of extra cinders.  At my age, I consider time vs cost in almost every decision.

Hope this helps.

Ed

Jim,

At our club, Buzz Burnley came up with a pretty good method for replicating an area that had a cinder base look. Perhaps he'll expand on this brief desciption:

Took cereal box chipboard (cardboard) and covered the areas between the tracks, wet the cardboard and worked it to an undulating surface. The tracks were mounted on 3/8" homasote and the cardboard came up to about mid to top of the track's ties.

He laid down a layer of fine sand all over the cardboard, adding some ballast remnants and painted it all various shades of black and charcoal. The area has the look of ties nearly buried in cinders. It'll take a while before I have a chance to take a post a photo of the results. (unless one of the guys can do so before me).

I think I turned out very well.

Ed/Chris,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the thought and also the idea about the cardboard filler - that saves a lot of time and material. I hope you can send a picture as I am interested in trying that. All the prototype pictures of yards that I have seen have a lot of very fine cinders covering most of the track and that is the look I want to get.

Ed - I understand about the time as everything seems to take too long.

Jim

Jim and all,

As Chris mentioned, I use cereal box cardboard to fill the space between the tracks. We have most all our track mounted on homosote roadbed. The cardstock fills between the beveled edges of the roadbed and I wet it to give it an undulating, uneven, "natural" appearance. Then I use the "secret" ingredient....beach sand. Here in South Jersey (not to be confused with north jersey) the beach sand is extremely fine, and free. Perfect for well used, weathered areas on the railroad. I sprinkle the sand where I want it, use a small brush to move it if necessary, then add commercial cinders very sparingly where needed. Mist this very lightly with wet water and gently and carefully flow on diluted Elmers white glue. Mist it gently again, make any adjustments, then go away for a couple of days. When everything is perfectly dry, I airbrush the area with various thinned latex, or Floquil colors to get the weathered, natural effect I want.

This really works great, is cheap, and if you screw-up just wet it again, remove the mistake, and start over. Hopefully Chris can provide some photo's and if there are any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

Buzz     

Buzz,

Thanks for the input. I am going to go to Ocean City, NJ in a couple of weeks. Is that the area that you get the sand from? Is there any problem with residual salt in the beach sand? I am doing a yard area that has muliple tracks so I assume that you would just put card stock between the tracks, resting it on the tie ends? Would you be concerned about sagging?

Thanks,

Jim

Jim,

Ocean City is right near where I live and has the sand I use. I alwas get sand nearer the street rather than by the water. It is dry and relativly free of salt because it has been out of the water for a long time and has been rained on many times to rinse the salt away. I have never had a problem with this.

I put the card stock to the bottom of the ties, not to the top. This way you have a relatively small area to fill and you can vary the thickness here and there. I have had no problems with sagging, and even if it does you can add more sand to fill in the low spots.

I'll try to get some pictures for you. It's a lot easier to do than to decsribe how to do it.

Buzz

Thanks, Buzz. I will try to gather some. I know I will look a bit odd to passersby but it will be worth it.

Jim

Jonathan,

Whatever Ed Rappe says goes!  He invited me over to see his layout back around the first of the year and all I can can say is WOW!  It looked and ran great.  He has more track in his Horseshoe Curve than what my entire layout has

Isn't MTH coming out with some 2-rail track soon?  I keep wanting to build a 2-rail turnout to see how it's done, but other projects keep getting in my way.