Forum members:
May I have you objective/subjective opinion of this offering from Brasstrains.com
https://brasstrains.com/Classi...-6-6-6-H-8-Allegheny
Is this the finest Allegheny ever produced regardless of scale
Thank you
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
it would have been nice to see the cab detail. there is no doubt that the ability to add detail increases with scale size.
I think so. There are some Allegheny experts out there - if you really plan on buying this thing I can ask.
The price is way above my pay grade. And the description says it has some cosmetic issues. It does look to be a highly detailed model but I would be satisfied with a model by MTH or Lionel.
MELGAR
The Lionel JLC model is no slouch.
Close to 9K, wow that's a big investment in a garden toy. But that said it would be a beautiful thing to watch work.
I missed the stats where they tell you how much the shipping weight is.
I would bet that it has to weigh in at 45 pounds or more. 
Ah, the "bigger is better" syndrome.
daylight posted:
Is this the finest Allegheny ever produced regardless of scale
Maybe on looks, but these FAM trains are not made to run. I would prefer the ASTER version so I could run it: https://www.southernsteamtrains.com/aallegheny.htm
Regards
Fred
Note: I would have assumed the guys from BRASSTRAINS.COM would know something about gauge and scale; calling this 1:32 Gauge 1 item G Scale it totally wrong.
overlandflyer posted:it would have been nice to see the cab detail. there is no doubt that the ability to add detail increases with scale size.
Overlandflyer, here ya go.
bob2 posted:I think so. There are some Allegheny experts out there - if you really plan on buying this thing I can ask.
bob2 posted:I think so. There are some Allegheny experts out there - if you really plan on buying this thing I can ask.
Possible, a huge stretch. Please ask.
Attachments
Images (1)
Thanks to everyone for your opinions; much appreciated
Fred and TinplateArt, glad you responded and wished you would have.
I agree, 'calling this 1:32 Gauge 1 item G Scale it totally wrong."
There is another one on ebay , I think. Claim is "never used" but asking $10,500
What's wrong with classifying it as G Scale as it runs on 45mm track??!!
Accucraft has a live steam version still in stock for $8K.
I don't ever recall seeing a scale C&O locomotive (in 1:1 or model) with white lettering like this one has, instead of yellow.
Is that right?
TRW
Beautiful model, but the lettering should be dulux gold, not white! Unforgivable mistake on a $9K model. And the sound system is horrible.
Ken
Casey Jones2 posted:What's wrong with classifying it as G Scale as it runs on 45mm track??!!
There is a difference between gauge and scale. See http://sncf231e.nl/gauge-and-scale/
Regards
Fred
kanawha posted:Beautiful model, but the lettering should be dulux gold, not white! Unforgivable mistake on a $9K model. And the sound system is horrible.
Ken
I agree about the sound, didn't know about the should be gold lettering. Well then, that is probably the death nail; poor sound ( and no smoke).
Expensive shelf queen
Thank you
Casey Jones2 posted:What's wrong with classifying it as G Scale as it runs on 45mm track??!!
Accucraft has a live steam version still in stock for $8K.
while it isn't technically wrong to call this model G scale, it may be the least useful information that could possibly be presented. in the same breath, outdoor railroaders have no problem calling any of the popular garden scales from 1:32 up to 1:20.3, G scale.
other model scales have adopted standard designations to indicate the same scale on different gauge track as in HOn3 (indicating 1:87 scale on 3' prototype track) or On2 (as 1:48 scale on 2' gauge). outdoor railroaders, all using the same 45mm (1.77") gauge track, accommodate the different gauges by changing the scale. in outdoor railroading, #1 gauge track is used to represent a number of different prototype gauges.
from its recent roots in outdoor garden railroading, these mostly cosmetic-priority modelers were initially presented with the ambiguous LGB scale who loosely based their models on European prototypes running on meter gauge track. scale, or rather scale-to-gauge ratio error seemed as much of a concern to this crowd as it did to 3-rail O gauge equipment operators. when American three foot narrow gauge prototype models joined this gauge, things likely seemed close enough that a general catch-all scale designation of "G" was informally adopted to the narrow gauge use of 45mm track. whether the "G" relates to the LGB heritage or the result of a general term for "Garden" railroading it started to be used interchangeably to reference both the narrow gauge track and the model scale(s).
with the introduction of modern US standard gauge (56.5") models, things got even more confusing. there is a general misconception by most people that gauge and scale are essentially interchangeable, and now it seemed that anything running on 45mm track, now often referred to as G gauge, could be termed G scale.
the NMRA took up this challenge and actually assigned two new designations to the use of #1 gauge (45mm) track...
1:20.3 scale was assigned the letter designation of "F", and with the standard notation for narrow gauge modeling, its use with 45mm track would be designated Fn3. this is the correct designation for US 3' narrow gauge models running on 45mm gauge track.
NMRA then defined a more general "LS" (for Large Scale) which is more of a definition of wheel clearance standards vs any definition of model scale, so in a way, there is still no precise definition for #1 gauge track treated as US standard gauge. the two scales that seem to be most prevalent are 1:32 and 1:29 scale. and while 1:32 is overwhelmingly the more accurate scale for this gauge (less than 0.05% vs over 9% scale to gauge ratio error for 1:29), there is no overlooking the pervasiveness of the noticeably oversize 1:29 models in the hobby.
IMO, MTH perhaps came the closest to an acceptable designation for their 1:32 models as "One Gauge" with the obvious reference to the heritage of #1 gauge track from the 19th century definition, or my personal preference for "#1 scale" or simply "OneScale".
the debate will likely continue.
cheers...gary
i have no facts to present, but companies like this often do extensive research and detail models of locomotives from various periods in time. note, for instance some GG1 prototypes that went through up to 1/2 a dozen or more liveries in their lifetimes. i would not write off the possibility that the prototype of this H8 class model did not display white lettering sometime in its career.
i have seen the Accucraft Allegheny running and while it has some flaws, i'll always take a live steamer over an electric locomotive in #1 gauge.
overlandflyer posted:Casey Jones2 posted:What's wrong with classifying it as G Scale as it runs on 45mm track??!!
Accucraft has a live steam version still in stock for $8K.
while it isn't technically wrong to call this model G scale, it may be the least useful information that could possibly be presented. in the same breath, outdoor railroaders have no problem calling any of the popular garden scales from 1:32 up to 1:20.3, G scale.
other model scales have adopted standard designations to indicate the same scale on different gauge track as in HOn3 (indicating 1:87 scale on 3' prototype track) or On2 (as 1:48 scale on 2' gauge). outdoor railroaders, all using the same 45mm (1.77") gauge track, accommodate the different gauges by changing the scale. in outdoor railroading, #1 gauge track is used to represent a number of different prototype gauges.
from its recent roots in outdoor garden railroading, these mostly cosmetic-priority modelers were initially presented with the ambiguous LGB scale who loosely based their models on European prototypes running on meter gauge track. scale, or rather scale-to-gauge ratio error seemed as much of a concern to this crowd as it did to 3-rail O gauge equipment operators. when American three foot narrow gauge prototype models joined this gauge, things likely seemed close enough that a general catch-all scale designation of "G" was informally adopted to the narrow gauge use of 45mm track. whether the "G" relates to the LGB heritage or the result of a general term for "Garden" railroading it started to be used interchangeably to reference both the narrow gauge track and the model scale(s).
with the introduction of modern US standard gauge (56.5") models, things got even more confusing. there is a general misconception by most people that gauge and scale are essentially interchangeable, and now it seemed that anything running on 45mm track, now often referred to as G gauge, could be termed G scale.
the NMRA took up this challenge and actually assigned two new designations to the use of #1 gauge (45mm) track...
1:20.3 scale was assigned the letter designation of "F", and with the standard notation for narrow gauge modeling, its use with 45mm track would be designated Fn3. this is the correct designation for US 3' narrow gauge models running on 45mm gauge track.
NMRA then defined a more general "LS" (for Large Scale) which is more of a definition of wheel clearance standards vs any definition of model scale, so in a way, there is still no precise definition for #1 gauge track treated as US standard gauge. the two scales that seem to be most prevalent are 1:32 and 1:29 scale. and while 1:32 is overwhelmingly the more accurate scale for this gauge (less than 0.05% vs over 9% scale to gauge ratio error for 1:29), there is no overlooking the pervasiveness of the noticeably oversize 1:29 models in the hobby.
IMO, MTH perhaps came the closest to an acceptable designation for their 1:32 models as "One Gauge" with the obvious reference to the heritage of #1 gauge track from the 19th century definition, or my personal preference for "#1 scale" or simply "OneScale".
the debate will likely continue.
cheers...gary
Excellent article, thank you
overlandflyer posted:i have no facts to present, but companies like this often do extensive research and detail models of locomotives from various periods in time. note, for instance some GG1 prototypes that went through up to 1/2 a dozen or more liveries in their lifetimes. i would not write off the possibility that the prototype of this H8 class model did not display white lettering sometime in its career.
i have seen the Accucraft Allegheny running and while it has some flaws, i'll always take a live steamer over an electric locomotive in #1 gauge.
Overlandflyer, do you recall the flaws. I must be naïve but flaws in an $8,000. locomotive
daylight posted:overlandflyer posted:i have no facts to present, but companies like this often do extensive research and detail models of locomotives from various periods in time. note, for instance some GG1 prototypes that went through up to 1/2 a dozen or more liveries in their lifetimes. i would not write off the possibility that the prototype of this H8 class model did not display white lettering sometime in its career.
i have seen the Accucraft Allegheny running and while it has some flaws, i'll always take a live steamer over an electric locomotive in #1 gauge.
Overlandflyer, do you recall the flaws. I must be naïve but flaws in an $8,000. locomotive
with a live steam model some concessions made are either structurally essential or cost prohibitive. unlike the Aster models, Accucraft does not use the articulated joints to feed steam to the forward engines, but in their defense, it is done rather well. cosmetically, the Accucraft model looks fine. believe me, when one of these locomotives is operating, very few people watching seem to care about the rivet count.
if you saw that BRASSTRAINS ad and considered the white gloves that were included an essential adjunct to your modeling, live steam probably isn't for you.
I checked with a guy I consider to be the foremost expert on the Allegheny. He stated flatly that the Kohs Allegheny was the best in any scale.
The Fine Arts Allegheny was done by George Kohs' brother, so one might expect that George had a few things fixed.
Apparently a few C&O steamers had white lettering. There is no proof that the H-8 was not one of them.
I have permission to post a few photos, but the title of this thread would not attract Allegheny aficionados, so probably no point in posting.
DAYLIGHT: If I had to choose between this engine and that beautiful Marklin Gauge One 1:32 French Orient Express loco, I would go with the Marklin. I am going to further state that I am NOT, and NEVER will be, a fan of the Allegheny loco! Too unaesthetic (ugly) for my taste!
bob2 posted:Apparently a few C&O steamers had white lettering. There is no proof that the H-8 was not one of them.
Color pictures of C&O steam in actual service are hard to come by, however, every color photograph I've seen of various classes of C&O engines, the lettering is a brownish yellow including the Allegheny. That's not to say there might not be an exception, but without actual photographic evidence of engines with white lettering, I find it very unlikely. I would hazard a guess that whoever did the painting research for this model, looked at a black and white picture and assumed the lettering was white.
A number of tenders were downgraded to maintenance of way service and these were lettered in white.
Ken
Tinplate Art posted:DAYLIGHT: If I had to choose between this engine and that beautiful Marklin Gauge One 1:32 French Orient Express loco, I would go with the Marklin. I am going to further state that I am NOT, and NEVER will be, a fan of the Allegheny loco! Too unaesthetic (ugly) for my taste!
Pretty-pretty?. No,not to me either. Pretty powerful?; yes. If I had room I'd have one out of respect for the machine it was. Same as a Big Boy, Garret, Kroc, ..etc. etc.. I like small or "classy" best, but in person the mechanicals would sure keep my mellon-gears churning I have to admit.
This one is also impressive modeling as a whole; that's pretty too. 😘
TRUE - NO doubt about the impressive tractive effort of the beast, and my objection is purely aesthetic! ☺
Way, way, way above my pay grade. I often wonder about these fine scale models as far as running them in a garden railway setting. I've been a garden railroader for thirty years. In those thirty years, I have experimented, learned, sometimes forgotten what I learned, and generally have gained alot of knowledge on the subject.
My experiences with large scale track, in a garden setting is that for most locos and rolling stock, made by the well known manufacturers, LGB, Aristocraft, USA Trains and sometimes Bachmann, is that they can handle track that is not perfectly level. In fact, My LGB stuff, handles some track work that would embarrass a top notch track crew.
So models such as the one that is the subject of this thread would need near perfect track to operate successfully. With almost constant maintenance, a ground level railway would work. Otherwise a raised railway on rigid sub base would be the way to go.
All of this is simply my opinion, and as mentioned, gained knowledge from over a quarter century of garden railroading.
Dan Padova posted:I often wonder about these fine scale models as far as running them in a garden railway setting.
I have bought one (Broadway Limited) 1 gauge postal car from the same manufacturer of this Allegheny (FAM) and tried running it on my garden railway which has a radius of 3 meter (diameter 6 meter). It would not run (derailed at various places on my track) so I asked the manufacturer (G. Kohs) and he said his models were not made to run and certainly not on a small radius of 3 meter! I have no running problems with other fine scale gauge 1 items (like ASTER, KISS, Fulgurex, KM1) including the largest (BigBoy) on my track. The FAM caboose does run, but I will never buy another FAM item, although their looks are great.
Regards
Fred
Good comments from everyone. I will stick with the French beauty.
The Allegheny really looks to be a work of art but the lack of a current sound system and no smoke leave a lot to be desire IMHO.
much better buy at $5,000.00
AmeenTrainGuy posted:sncf231e posted:Dan Padova posted:I often wonder about these fine scale models as far as running them in a garden railway setting.
I have bought one (Broadway Limited) 1 gauge postal car from the same manufacturer of this Allegheny (FAM) and tried running it on my garden railway which has a radius of 3 meter (diameter 6 meter). It would not run (derailed at various places on my track) so I asked the manufacturer (G. Kohs) and he said his models were not made to run and certainly not on a small radius of 3 meter! I have no running problems with other fine scale gauge 1 items (like ASTER, KISS, Fulgurex, KM1) including the largest (BigBoy) on my track. The FAM caboose does run, but I will never buy another FAM item, although their looks are great.
Regards
Fred
One thing about Brass and other fine-scale models is that they are usually not built to operate. Although there are a few exceptions to this, for example, some brass train importers actually take the time to make sure that the model both runs and looks great. Ultimately, the reason most importers don't fret about how well it runs is that most of their customers are collectors who seldom open the packaging just to keep it "mint."
My experience, as described, is that not-running of fine scale models is the exception, so please enlighten with your experience.
Regards
Fred
