First proper O scale layout - Build Thread

A name can come later but right now it sure looks like the two of you are having great fun building it together and that is what counts the most. The two of you are doing a good job of building it. It's going to look great when finished...............Paul

You are establishing great memories between the two of you!!!

          VERY COOL 

Congrats! A milestone day!

Looks great!  Keep having fun!!

A week passes  - and I think I'm making a major change..

I am just not very happy with fastrack - the sound level, and the expense are a major detractor.. plus its not very forgiving and I'm having lots of slowdowns in sertain areas, even with multiple feeds and making a DIY cleaning car and running it for about an hour.

After looking at options and agonizing for several nights - I think I'm going to pull this up and go with standard tubular track and O22 switches.. I really want to run a dual mainline with reversing and sidings - and at $100 for a switch, fastrack is killing me.

I also think I'm going to compress the depth in the center a bit so I have better reach.  Possibly remove a foot or two of bench to make a large U.. 

So - I'm going to do some rail modelling tonight and get a rough idea of what I want in tubular track and I'll start ordering.  Watch this space for big changes to come!

I think you'll be happy you ditched the Fastrack.

ESCHER I can assure you it isn't the Fastack giving you problems with slowdowns.  I run a 17x11 around the room with no power drops at this time due to an expansion.  Not a single problem ....  

Jim

Screwing any track, especially Fastrack, to the wood structure of a layout increases noise levels. You do have nice thick foam, but do the screws go all the way to the layout structure? Fastrack is probably the noisiest track around, to add to the issue.

May I recommend GarGraves and/or Ross track? It is a nice steel track, like the tubular, easily and durably joined, wooden ties, on the quiet side, looks much better than Fastrack or traditional tubular, less fussy than Atlas or MTH, and is available in pre-curved sections as well as flex-track (I don't bend curves any longer; pre-curved is worth the money). It does need painting (they ALL do), but spray paint before you lay it does that in a hurry.

Actually - after a bit of research here on the forums - I'm planning to use Menards O42 and O31 radius curves and straights as well as used O22 switches...  Seems to give good results at drastically lower prices.  My hobby budget is not very much (actually you could call it nil as I'll be selling other items to fund this) - so price is a HUGE factor. 

The other nice thing about the standard tubular track is that I've always had a fondness for it and have wanted to use it.  I jumped into fastrack, thinking it was not as espensive as it is and not realizing the noise level...  typical noobie learning curve stuff - now I know better.

As to using more prototypical track - I had looked at the other brands (incuding the ones mentioned) - and the price factor is still there.  I do like the gargraves a lot...

To answer the question about screwing into the layout - upper level is straight into OSB, lower level is only into the foam..  Both are very loud.

Regarding the slowdowns - not sure what to say other than - I'm glad you don't have issues!  I've swapped track and tried a few things... but in the end, I really want to just solder the connections - and I'm afraid that with fastrack, I'll end up melting the plastic.  Not an issue with the tubular stuff from what I've read.. I guess I'm just a "get a bigger hammer" guy.. lol!

I suppose the final thing I should point out - we plan to move in 2-5 years... so this is *truly* a learning layout for us.. When we move, one of the criteria will be a more open floorplan basement (hopefully a full size ranch with finished basement) - so I can run track around three walls..  When I do *that* layout - I'll likely go with the higher end track - unless I completely fall in love with the traditional tubular stuff in this learning phase.

Id try to figure out the problem.   You've got enough power there to run a whole fleet of trains with about any track!  Are all your straights 30 inch or 10 inch pieces?  Lionel says to run a feeder at every 3 to 5 pieces of track regardless of length.  You can connect batches of Fastrack with .110 female spade connectors the slide directly to the track and make jumpers.  And you can use an adapter track to add to what you have and just add tubular.    Id hate to see you not use all the track you have.  Especially if it only has to last a couple of years.   

Jim

Edit: With that being said if you are going to be upgrading it 5 years.   And still plan to replace what you have.   Why not buy the Gargraves and Ross switches now and then you will have them when you build the next layout?

Ohhh you guys know how to make a guy think... haha!

As to feeders - on the lower level I have one on the front side and one on the back side, and also one on the switched loop.

On the top I only have one feeder...

I had forgotten about the adapter track...

To further the discussion, may I suggest buying used track? You will save a lot of money and still maintain a little more realism. I agree with the others, there is something else going on with your layout. No matter what you do I would figure it out if for no other reason than you will learn from it.

I personally find O22 switches a little bumpy for some locos.  The cost of quality switches is a major deterrent- there's no getting around it.  But I agree with D500- I would use Ross track, most or all of your problems will be solved. 

I've been bugging the heck out of Steve to offer his mainstream switches in O36.  That would make them a drop-in replacement for your Fasttrack.

Check out the Tinman, Forum sponsor for reconditioned tubular track and switches.

https://www.tinman3rail.com

Joe - yep - his ebay stuff was what got my thinking originally.  and it seems like a lot of folks like 022 switches.  Plus - I am only  running 50+ year old postwar engines which were designed for the stuff..

Ok - for sake of argument.... let assume I'm starting from scratch... (which I likley will as the currently layout is frustrating me for a multitude of reasons).

First here are my dislikes of my current setup:

1) Reach - I can barely reach the back of the layout due to the depth - the second level - while cool, exacerbates this issue greatly.

2) I want a dual mainline - minimum 2 trains able to run at once - better would be 3 (I know - probably a pipe dream with my space issues)

3) I also would like to build a small 2-3 foot extension for a couple of sidings where I can park trains or build up trains wihtout stopping the layout.

4) As mentioned before - sound level... I love the layouts I hear online built with Tubular track - fastrack is much more high pitched and "white noise" like..

5) my upper level closed off a lot of the lower level - basically I only see the trains down there for

1/3 of the layout space.. 

Lets look at this as a blank sheet of paper..

So - I have a 4x12 foot space..

- I want 2 mainlines and the ability to have a siding/small yard that I will add on to one side of the layout (say another 1-2 feet x 4 foot extension on the side)

- Future sidings inside the loops to give the trains a place to "go".

- If possible - I'd *love* to cut a foot of depth out of the middle to improve reach - forcing sort of a dogbone shape

- From the pics above you can see I only have access on 2.5 sides (front, left and partial access on the far right (about a foot to the wall)..

- I'm not opposed to a second level, but as I found out with the current setup - I closed off so much of the lower level that you barely see the trains down there.  I'm not interested in doing a grade up to a second level at this time...  Second level - if used, would be a completely different mainline / town.

So - I'll open it up to the group - what would you recommend?  Has anyone see a layout that hits some of these points?

I found this layout along the way as I was searching - and it hits a lot of my desired points, if I change the crossover to some sidings and add a extension for a yard on one side.. (Apologies if

this is one of yours - I can't remember where I found it, it could have been this forum even..)

@Ken-Oscale recently made a similar design but was able to sneak some more features into it.

Thread is here: https://ogrforum.com/...4-5-outside-diameter

Very nice..  I started with this type of layout and started playing with how much I could fit.. 

Yes I went a bit crazy.  Playing with Rail Modeller.. and came up with this if I only use O31 curves and Switches:

This would use 10XO22 switches, 24XO31curves, and 54X10" straights...

I would probably start without the sidings (4 less switches) and add those down the road..

I think this is what I'm going to go with...  Changed to 042 outer loop.

I can park 2 trains and have 2 doing loops...  now to research how to wire up the blocks...I understand in theory - but not sure the best implementation.

Buy 1 0-22 and see how your engine(s) like it.

Enlarging and flipping the dogbone indention to the control side would open the center into a "valley" of sorts. Careful or you might leave yourself railing stock in curves. 

If you are over 3.5' deep to the wall you should consider a hatch. It can even have track on it.

More drops and a big fat bus. The 5 red points are the least I'd do with any track  brand. Yellow and green, better or just an alternate. I like power in the curves where it's needed most. The rest is avoiding  passing power thru switches & crossings, (self powered switches or not). There are really 4 more unmarked points at the switch to switch joints too, but they are kinda hard to connect to.

More wood frame runner on the underside help stop a lot. So does a heavy skirt, hopefully trapping what comes from down low.

As you fill the layout it will absorb more sound presently reflecting up and out pretty easily. 

I think roadbed of some kind is the next step towards being quieter. 

Since your looking at tube track, I have an idea to use the felt leg tip / floor protection sheets from the hardware isle and cutting and stacking them so the tie would fit over and rest on them. Glued to the foam they are dense enough to stay put. 

"Enlarging and flipping the dogbone indention to the control side would open the center into a "valley" of sorts. Careful or you might leave yourself railing stock in curves. 

If you are over 3.5' deep to the wall you should consider a hatch. It can even have track on it."

Just a suggestion as far as the track plan, I crudely used photoshop to try to maximize the siding length which will allow for longer trains to pass and for more accessories/scenery.

I know what you mean with the second level blocking much of the lower level.  If you do add a second level, consider adding a separate second level like this, only flipped so the long straightaway is in the back:

Here is another nice thread about a layout in a similar space: https://ogrforum.com/...hat-can-i-do-in-5x12.  ACE created most of these plans I believe.  A lot of options for you.  

1 level, flat:

Adding connected second level

Just a suggestion as far as the track plan, I crudely used photoshop to try to maximize the siding length which will allow for longer trains to pass and for more accessories/scenery.

Great idea!  I'll update the plan in my software..

I also like the reversing loops in some of those plans - something I'd like to incorporate if possible..  I'll be doing a lot of experimenting.

If sound is a big thing then slow the speed down.  My 3 rail and 2 rail is integrated on the same layout.  Ii run my 3rail at a typical two rail speed and it is very comfortable to the ears.  Try running trains on the fast track at 1/2 throttle.  Also at a much slower pace your layout will seem much larger. 

Consider moving the speed control slower to produce a desirable sound level.

Tear out day!!

Wow!  I need two helpers like yours to do the heavy lifting!  

Tested all the Menards track and had zero continuity issues.. still waiting on switches so we set up some loops for testing.. 

I'm very much a fan of the tubular track - no more slow downs and only one feeder per loop in this testing phase.  Its also sooooo much quieter.

Sounds ok for just engines on the lines - hollow cars and lighted cars with collectors make most of the noise - some Midwest cork roadbed would help cut a few more db s off of the levels

The boy is quite the engineer - I love how he deftly controls the throttles with a constant eye on trains 

You might consider a dark green light weight carpet or outdoor carpet under the track. I use this on the home layout with the Atlas track laid on top, it holds its place well without the need to screw down the track. On 4 portable 4x8 foam sheets I have the green outdoor carpet glued to the foam and then both the really old Lionel O-27 track screwed down through the carpet to the foam and on some sheets I have used the MTH Realtrack. Key is to get a screw that is wide enough to bite into the metal in the screw holes through your track and make sure the whole length of the screw is threaded. While the foam does not hold it vertically it grabs the carpet and this holds the screws from coming out. The noise level of all my different tracks on the various carpet home and show layouts is very quiet, run lots of long trains and fast trains and the wheel noise is very low on all of these. I had tried the Fastrack on carpet and other sound deadening efforts and just do not like the noise level of the design of this track. I think you will be happy with your switch to the cheaper track. Looks good; your overall layout and designs, have fun. Great when the kids can be involved. 

Looks like you are moving right along! As Carl said, your son is doing a great job running the engines.  I too do not like the noise inherent to Fastrack.  But that is because I run sound equipped engines and want to hear the sounds coming from them.  I do use Fastrack for Christmas layout because it is easy to put down and change for a short season of running.  Other folks like the sound of the track whether it is Fastrack or tubular.  The thing is to find out what works best for you and what you and your kids like best.  Do whatever it takes to keep your kids interested if they are so inclined.  Neither of my daughters were interested in trains, so the trains kind of took a back seat until our daughters were grown, marrying, and left the house.

Looking at these pics - I'm going to have to address the old concrete leaks sooner rater than later - I had forgotten how bad that looks.  Hasn't leaked in years, just I never got around to re-painting.

Switches should be in from Tinman3rail by the end of the week - so then we will start working on a final design.

I'm probably going to go the green outdoor carpet route for a while until we finalize things.. 

He does love running the trains!  "Papa - Lets race!!"  He is definitely in go faster mode..  Learning to slow down in curves, but we still have some derailments due to excitement levels being so high!

I noticed the wall too, but it wasn’t my purpose to comment on it.  You know your house and future goals.  The green carpet is a good choice.  So these are your grandchildren?  

Hehe... nope.. my kids.  We started late and had them in our mid 30’s.  

My wife’s family has the tradition of calling her father “Papa”..  we carried that forward with ours..  but it does cause folks to think they are my grandkids... I’m 46 and have quite a bit of grey starting.

Ah, then I am not the only one who has been confused.    I like it though!  I was mid 30s before we had kids too.  So far at 62, we do not have any grandchildren.  I have no idea why I don't have more grey other than I would have a nearly white beard if I didn't shave it off!  

 The old paint is an advantage. Now you have an excuse paint it sky blue for an instant backdrop. But I'd do before I'd laid out ground cover.  Since you are not shopping for home&garden styling, talk to someone in your local paint dept. about bad custom color matches not bought and/retinting it slightly if needed. These cast offs can be quite cheap as once tinted with a mix of color, another exact future color match becomes much harder, maybe impossible. From that point "it is what it is" & future paint must match it, not visa versa. But that can be done easily.  (Their problem is they can't remove pigment, only add it)

  Bravo for handing them tools. I don't think enough people teach thier kids such self reliance skills anymore.

  I'm grinning hard at the boy trying to keep enough pressure on the screw to keep the driver seated.  I was small so would apply pressure of my whole weight, then move my whole body in a 3 Stooges"Curly shuffle" to actually turn it, and only 1/8-1/2 turn at a time.  Permission to use a drill & driver bit was a godsend   I got my first hand drill, saw, & hammer in second grade; and had a powerdrill and table jig saw and scroll saw by fourth.  It's hard for me to grasp how some adults never learn to handle anything like that. 

I agree wholeheartedly with Adriatic!!  Now is the time to paint the walls.  Castoffs is a great idea.  The local Lowes and Home Depot are side by side, so I often check out both before deciding on what I am going to buy.

Our girls learned how to use a host of hand tools and later some power tools by doing with me.  Now as married adults, neither is afraid of tearing into a project.

Adriatic, you would look great doing the Curley Shuffle with the screw driver.  My dad did not have any power tools at all when I was growing up.  I didn't buy a drill or circular saw until I was married and had our own house.  We used the hand twist drill, turning the crank like Mum did using the egg beater.  I could never hold the hand saw straight.  Even as a teenager, Dad would constantly tell me to straighten that saw.  However, I built my 4x8 layout using those tools and corrupted techniques.  A junky Tyco HO train set ran all through high school and 2-year college on that layout.   Also, when a tree fell down, Dad and I used the two man cross cut saw to cut it into short logs we could roll down the long hill and into the weeds.  Oh, he also taught me to use a scythe.  We still have both scythes.  Good Grim Reaper props nowdays!  

I love the spirit of this thread.  Here we see the future of our beloved hobby!

Good luck on your build.

You gent's have discovered my evil plans!

I had always planned on using the railroad as a means to teach them shop skills.  Its great when they run downstairs becuase they hear me working and yell "Ohhh show me how to do that!!".

Started (very very slowly) teaching my son soldering skills... tinning wire and then how to hold the iron.  Of course I was steadying his hand the entire time.

These kiddos will be changing the oil themselves on my jeep in a couple more years..