First Time to York - Recap: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

@MainLine Steam posted:

This is follow-up to the post I made asking for suggestions.  The replies were very Helpful and saved me from making the "fatal mistake".

The Good/Wonderful, almost everything!  The Bad, didn't make it to Quaker Steak and Lube.  The Ugly, nothing!

I ended-up doing the show on JUST Thursday.  I arrived at the Fairgrounds at 12:30, the drive with stops took 5+ hours (not 4.5 I was hoping for).  NEEDED a few breaks. Through registration at 12:50.  Trying to figure out how to do Silver Hall since that is where I was, it was pretty busy.  I decided the row dead ahead (C?) looked as good as any.  I literally walked 10 feet and on the left side sitting on the table was the item at the very top of my hit list.  I decided at that point I must have entered an alternate universe.  My luck is usually 180 degrees from this.  The price was also slightly lower than I anticipated (my reference is Ebay).  My gut feel was to walk the show some more and see if I could get it at a better price.  I am CHEAP and often procrastinate (may explain my "luck", LOL).  Anyhow remembered what many of you suggested.  Asked for a better price, seller said NO.  Said I was the 4th guy to inquire about it, he hesitated and then said he would honor the price, but if I didn't buy it was going to change the tag and raise it $75.  Call me naive, but I was a car salesman for 3.5 years, I believed him.  Asked if he took plastic, he said no.  Told him I need to go to the car to get more cash and would give him $25 to hold it, said not necessary.  Took 2 trips to the car, one to get money, one to put it in the trunk.

I then did rest of Silver, Blue, White and Red halls by a little after 4PM.  Spent 20 minutes in Purple Hall Looking at and talking to guys about modular layouts.

Hit Orange at 4:30.  Almost immediately noticed a seller had some K-Lines Passenger Cars.  Asked about a set I was looking for.  Said he might have it, and started digging through piles under the tables.  His kids were under there, but no sleeping adults!  Didn't find it, but found a 15" set I also like, and asked him the price, it was reasonable, but told him I really wanted the 18" version.  He said well the 18" version would be more expensive, I said I know it would be about $x, he turned around walked over and pulled that right out from under another table and quoted $25 more.  I said need to think about it.  He said he would do my price.  I said needed to walk the rest of the building to think, but I would be back.  I knew I was being "played by him" but really did need to check my options.

I sought out the owners of 2 of the Forum Sponsors, to let then know some suggestions I had.  Both were cordial, one said he really liked my suggestion and would see what he could do to implement and thanked me.  The other liked it, but had to talk to the co-owners and product development.  I suggested if they decided to make it I should get it for free, or at least at Dealer Cost.

Returned and bought the K-Line Set mentioned above at price previously discussed at the closing bell (6:20).

Went to car, collected my thoughts.  Checked Google Maps, should be home by 10:45, knew I needed to add an hour.  I decided should skip Quaker and head home, arrived just past Midnight.

Summary - All information about the size of show and needing 2 or 3 days was CORRECT.  So why leave after One?  Well I spent most the cash I brought.  Sleeping in the car could have worked, I brought gear, but a motel would be better.  I know I did NOT see everything I might have wanted to buy, but accomplished more than I thought I would.

One reason I could get through the show so quickly, is that I am into roughly 20 Year Old High End 3R Items.  The show is Focused on Lionel Collectors which I knew, so If I saw a table full of that type of items I just kept moving.  Also due to the posts, knew what to expect size-wise, so paced myself to keep moving.  Did not spend a lot of time "visiting".  I learned a lot and had a WONDERFUL time.

Actually the items I were looking for were not all that plentiful.  I did not see another of either of the items I bought.

My ONLY regret is NOT going to either the Breakfast or Quaker Steak.  There is always next year!

I may do a couple of post.  One showing what I bought.  One about the Product Suggestion I made, to judge interest.

If you guys have any questions about the show, I will try to answer, but as stated I didn't spend a lot of excess time checking things out.

Great post.  Glad to hear that you enjoyed yourself.  Good for you for honoring rule #1 - if you want it and see it at a reasonable price, buy it!

Re the K-Line passenger cars, that was Vince's booth - I know because of the kids under the table.  Based on past dealings with him, I don't think you were being played.  Although this was his first time back after several years, he tends to have good stuff that is fairly priced - he knows what he has and what it will bring, and K-Line passenger cars, especially the longer ones, tend to move quickly.

A few of my observations...  At around 9:30 or 9:45 on Friday morning, the registration desk had a line out the door - haven't seen that in a long time.  In recent years, I've noticed that the parking lot tends to start thinning out around 1:30 on Friday; today, it was still pretty full at 3pm.  These are positive signs.  There were fewer sellers, but I attribute this to the aging demographic - time marches on.

Yes, Vince was back with his wife and 12 year old son now and I guess an adopted son now. Vince has not been at York for 10 years and glad to see them back. He had Chuck’s picture hanging up on his booth. Nice tribute to a great guy who left us now.
Jim, you did good by listening to the York experts here. Now, you need to stay for 2 days.
Comfortable walking shoes, cash and a lot of cash, hotel reservations in advance…

Yes, it was Vince.  I am new to the form so was not sure if specific businesses can be mentioned.  He is a great guy, if my remark was disparaging, I didn't mean it that way.  The, get the customer to give you a price, and then quote a slightly higher one, and then meet their price is a "classic" sales technique.  As mentioned I sold cars (successfully) for 3.5 years.  The price was fair or would not have bought, especially since this item wasn't even on my list.

Actually I also only give my money to people I like.  I almost bought another item at the show.  Price was right, but the guy was such a jerk (in my opinion) that I just walked away.  The item was $25, and when I went and picked it up, to look at it better, he told me not to touch it unless I was going to buy it.  His comments from there only got worse.

I forget what year it was for the October show, maybe 2018. One of the members in the member halls(forget which hall), had a sign posted on an item square in the middle of his table, "FREE". I don't remember who it was on the forum, but they saw it, asked the guy, and the guy had told him, "I've been waiting for someone to ask, you're the first, so it's yours." I think the person purchased something else from the man with his freebie. Pays to notice things, ask, and get lucky.

@MainLine Steam posted:

This is follow-up to the post I made asking for suggestions.  The replies were very Helpful and saved me from making the "fatal mistake".

The Good/Wonderful, almost everything!  The Bad, didn't make it to Quaker Steak and Lube.  The Ugly, nothing!

I ended-up doing the show on JUST Thursday.  I arrived at the Fairgrounds at 12:30, the drive with stops took 5+ hours (not 4.5 I was hoping for).  NEEDED a few breaks. Through registration at 12:50.  Trying to figure out how to do Silver Hall since that is where I was, it was pretty busy.  I decided the row dead ahead (C?) looked as good as any.  I literally walked 10 feet and on the left side sitting on the table was the item at the very top of my hit list.  I decided at that point I must have entered an alternate universe.  My luck is usually 180 degrees from this.  The price was also slightly lower than I anticipated (my reference is Ebay).  My gut feel was to walk the show some more and see if I could get it at a better price.  I am CHEAP and often procrastinate (may explain my "luck", LOL).  Anyhow remembered what many of you suggested.  Asked for a better price, seller said NO.  Said I was the 4th guy to inquire about it, he hesitated and then said he would honor the price, but if I didn't buy it was going to change the tag and raise it $75.  Call me naive, but I was a car salesman for 3.5 years, I believed him.  Asked if he took plastic, he said no.  Told him I need to go to the car to get more cash and would give him $25 to hold it, said not necessary.  Took 2 trips to the car, one to get money, one to put it in the trunk.

I then did rest of Silver, Blue, White and Red halls by a little after 4PM.  Spent 20 minutes in Purple Hall Looking at and talking to guys about modular layouts.

Hit Orange at 4:30.  Almost immediately noticed a seller had some K-Lines Passenger Cars.  Asked about a set I was looking for.  Said he might have it, and started digging through piles under the tables.  His kids were under there, but no sleeping adults!  Didn't find it, but found a 15" set I also like, and asked him the price, it was reasonable, but told him I really wanted the 18" version.  He said well the 18" version would be more expensive, I said I know it would be about $x, he turned around walked over and pulled that right out from under another table and quoted $25 more.  I said need to think about it.  He said he would do my price.  I said needed to walk the rest of the building to think, but I would be back.  I knew I was being "played by him" but really did need to check my options.

I sought out the owners of 2 of the Forum Sponsors, to let then know some suggestions I had.  Both were cordial, one said he really liked my suggestion and would see what he could do to implement and thanked me.  The other liked it, but had to talk to the co-owners and product development.  I suggested if they decided to make it I should get it for free, or at least at Dealer Cost.

Returned and bought the K-Line Set mentioned above at price previously discussed at the closing bell (6:20).

Went to car, collected my thoughts.  Checked Google Maps, should be home by 10:45, knew I needed to add an hour.  I decided should skip Quaker and head home, arrived just past Midnight.

Summary - All information about the size of show and needing 2 or 3 days was CORRECT.  So why leave after One?  Well I spent most the cash I brought.  Sleeping in the car could have worked, I brought gear, but a motel would be better.  I know I did NOT see everything I might have wanted to buy, but accomplished more than I thought I would.

One reason I could get through the show so quickly, is that I am into roughly 20 Year Old High End 3R Items.  The show is Focused on Lionel Collectors which I knew, so If I saw a table full of that type of items I just kept moving.  Also due to the posts, knew what to expect size-wise, so paced myself to keep moving.  Did not spend a lot of time "visiting".  I learned a lot and had a WONDERFUL time.

Actually the items I were looking for were not all that plentiful.  I did not see another of either of the items I bought.

My ONLY regret is NOT going to either the Breakfast or Quaker Steak.  There is always next year!

I may do a couple of post.  One showing what I bought.  One about the Product Suggestion I made, to judge interest.

If you guys have any questions about the show, I will try to answer, but as stated I didn't spend a lot of excess time checking things out.

Brilliant to leave when you did! Cut your mental losses while you can otherwise you may go broke [or take a very long time to pay it off] Like Don Heanly sings it, next time bring more money,...cause all she wants to do is dance!

https://youtu.be/u5gUjl0wHI8

@rattler21 posted:

What is the total you spent for the items you purchased?  John

I purposely left out the amounts.

I know there are some on the form that probably have every GGD/3rd rail item produced in their collection.  There are others that have a small collection of MPC era cars.  I fall somewhere in between with the items I purchase and quantity.  The reason I didn't get into O Scale previously, was the lack of funds.  I had been in HO pretty much my whole life "with time gaps".  I had/have mostly Athearn Blue Box.

In relating the story of my experience at York I want to help others that haven't been, understand it better.  Also again want to thank those more experienced, that helped guide me.  It was not to brag about what I got (and now can afford).  Also it is not to have others "judge" my transactions.

My theory is the important thing is to buy what you like, and can afford.  The joy isn't in the price, it is how you feel about your purchase.

BTW never thought I would buy any pre WW2 Lionel items, but there are a few that "caught my eye".  Next step is, I need to build a layout.  I understand one "more" of the attractions of 3R Scale, if I want, can purchase one of those items, and then just operate it.

A side benefit of going to York was seeing those Early Die Cast and Tinplate.  They are "Wayyy Kool"!  This 3R hobby is amazingly addictive.  Much worse than HO ever was to me.  LOL

I may have too eat my words above about "can now afford".

At least I didn't sell my car, I did however check out the UPS Store on premises shipping.  Decided box for me to fit in was quite expensive (this won't make sense unless you followed my Pre-York thread).

@MainLine Steam posted:

I purposely left out the amounts.

At least I didn't sell my car, I did however check out the UPS Store on premises shipping.  Decided box for me to fit in was quite expensive (this won't make sense unless you followed my Pre-York thread).

Just as well. that box might be hard to commute to work in!

Glad you had a nice experience!

Sad to say, I did not. I guess I know how to pick 'em, because virtually every dealer whose table I stopped at (I was there and in the registration line Friday at 10:00) acted like I was either interupting their time, was downright rude, or started off with a comment like "Are you buying something or not?" One guy was chatting with some other guy for about 8 minutes (about nothing) with me standing there like a dummy with a box in one hand and cash in the other. Waited patiently, didn't want to interupt his very important conversation, then I finally put the item down and walked away. He called after me "I guess you really didn't want it, huh?"

Finally wound up in the Orange hall where I found a couple of nice items and some nice people.

Went through the whole place, granted at a quick pace, even looked in on the layouts, and was on my way home by 1:00.

Have to think about whether I'll be going back.

@Rich in NOVA posted:

Glad you had a nice experience!

Sad to say, I did not. I guess I know how to pick 'em, because virtually every dealer whose table I stopped at (I was there and in the registration line Friday at 10:00) acted like I was either interrupting their time, was downright rude, or started off with a comment like "Are you buying something or not?" One guy was chatting with some other guy for about 8 minutes (about nothing) with me standing there like a dummy with a box in one hand and cash in the other. Waited patiently, didn't want to interrupt his very important conversation, then I finally put the item down and walked away. He called after me "I guess you really didn't want it, huh?"

I am very sorry to hear that!  Sounds like "Jerkitis" might have spread through the show quickly from the guy I mentioned in my earlier post.

Seriously, I don't have other York experiences to judge this against but I have been to MANY other Train Shows over the years.  From what I saw on Friday items weren't exactly "flying off the tables".  There was good attendance, but not a lot of guys walking around with or taking items out to their cars (that I saw).  I did witness one purchase, and after the guy walked away the seller said to the seller next to him "So far I have sold (2) $15 items" the response was "You are doing better than me".  This was probably around 3:15.

On the other hand this does not justify poor treatment of potential customers.  This is a very bad spiral to get into.  The worse you treat customers, the less you will sell.

When I worked at the car Dealership, I saw a fellow Salesman having a slow month get into this cycle.  One of the Cardinal Rules of Car Sales if you DO NOT talk to other Sales Peoples Customer's.  After a couple of Customers walked out on him, I took him aside and mentioned that they were "ready to buy" but he had "blown it".  We got along well, and I wanted to help him.  He said he knew, but just was depressed about his current "work situation".  I wished him well.  A month and a half later he was "let go".  He just wasn't selling cars anymore.  Sad, but true.

My point is PLEASE don't take anything that happened to you at the Show Personally.  Remember that the guys that aren't in the Orange Hall may just be "week-end warriors at best".  You learn a lot, if you are trying to make a living, on Straight Commision Sales.

Absolutely agree. Just leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

@Rich in NOVA posted:

Glad you had a nice experience! Sad to say, I did not. I guess I know how to pick 'em, because virtually every dealer whose table I stopped at (I was there and in the registration line Friday at 10:00) acted like I was either interupting their time, was downright rude, or started off with a comment like "Are you buying something or not?"

…

Finally wound up in the Orange hall where I found a couple of nice items and some nice people.

Aren’t all the dealers in the Orange Hall?

@Rich in NOVA posted:

Sad to say, I did not. I guess I know how to pick 'em, because virtually every dealer whose table I stopped at (I was there and in the registration line Friday at 10:00) acted like I was either interupting their time, was downright rude, or started off with a comment like "Are you buying something or not?" One guy was chatting with some other guy for about 8 minutes (about nothing) with me standing there like a dummy with a box in one hand and cash in the other. Waited patiently, didn't want to interupt his very important conversation, then I finally put the item down and walked away. He called after me "I guess you really didn't want it, huh?"

Finally wound up in the Orange hall where I found a couple of nice items and some nice people.

There are member tables where the members really come to just gas with their buddies and don't really expect to sell much.  I've found some of those guys are a bit uppidy at times. Of course, I've found most model train folks to be a lot more friendly as a bunch than many other groups.

Over in the dealer halls we love to sell!   Most of the folks there understand being a jerk will not only lose you that sale, but will establish a reputation for your shop as that person tells others about their experience.  Hence, you won't often find a seller that's a true jerk, but it does happen there as well, just not nearly as often.