LEGACY AND TMCC

There is a cable to connect the TMCC base to the Legacy base. Either TMCC or Legacy systems will run either type of ,locomotive, but running Legacy locomotives with a TMCC remote will not give you access to all Legacy features. Legacy is backwards compatible, and will run TMCC just fine.

 Legacy and TMCC will play nicely with DCS, TMCC/Legacy operate so much differently than DCS, the systems don't even recognize that the other system is even there, neither system will cause any interference with the other.

Doug

Lionel16 posted:

Our club is considering purchasing a new Lionel Legacy system.

 Can we still use the older TMCC remote and base along with Legacy on the same layout?   

Can Legacy and MTH DCS be used on the same layout?

Yes, you can. The TMCC base is connected to the Legacy base with a Y cable included with the #990 Legacy system. The Legacy base can store more route configurations and engines than the TMCC Cab-1 base. Cab-1 users cannot address the routes higher than id 9 or trains higher than id 9.

See page 8 of the Legacy 1.53 manual.

seeing how my last sentence was ignored and several of you crapped on my post ................

our club ditched the cab1's and went to the cab1L much better communications.

I'd go to the CAB1L just to get rid of that ungainly antenna!

Gentlemen,

   As usual Guns gives great advise, go with the Cab1L, better yet go Legacy Cab2!

PCRR/Dave

bigdodgetrain posted:

one thing to keep in mind when running both the cab1 (you called it tmcc but all lionel command system is really tmcc) and the cab2 is the cab1 will be slower to respond because the two bases take time to communicate.  it is just 3 to 5 seconds more but some people get impatient.

our club ditched the cab1's and went to the cab1L much better communications.

I have zero noticeable lag between the Cab1 and locomotive reaction.  The signal between the TMCC base and the Legacy base is traveling faster then you can blink.  In fact the response of my TMCC locomotives is better using the Cab-1 then the Cab-2.

That is great the Cab-1 and Cab-2 can be both used on the same layout.

One more question, if we decide to purchase the Cab1L, what features do we forfeit that are gained with using the Cab-2.

Lionel16 posted:

That is great the Cab-1 and Cab-2 can be both used on the same layout.

 

One more question, if we decide to purchase the Cab1L, what features do we forfeit that are gained with using the Cab-2.

quelling horn.

view screen.

sinclair posted:

bigdodgetrain posted:

one thing to keep in mind when running both the cab1 (you called it tmcc but all lionel command system is really tmcc) and the cab2 is the cab1 will be slower to respond because the two bases take time to communicate.  it is just 3 to 5 seconds more but some people get impatient.

our club ditched the cab1's and went to the cab1L much better communications.

I have zero noticeable lag between the Cab1 and locomotive reaction.  The signal between the TMCC base and the Legacy base is traveling faster then you can blink.  In fact the response of my TMCC locomotives is better using the Cab-1 then the Cab-2.

I have not experienced any "Lag Time" either when using the cab1 remote and base combined with the Legacy system, it works Perfectly for me, and is an inexpensive way to get more remotes for non-legacy locomotives. I will start watching for Cab1L's, now that they are available, but before the Cab1L was introduced the combined Cab1/ Legacy set up worked very well for me.

Doug

bigdodgetrain posted:

one thing to keep in mind when running both the cab1 (you called it tmcc but all lionel command system is really tmcc) and the cab2 is the cab1 will be slower to respond because the two bases take time to communicate.  it is just 3 to 5 seconds more but some people get impatient.

our club ditched the cab1's and went to the cab1L much better communications.

I Have to question if maybe there is something wrong with your legacy base, TMCC1base, or the cable between them here.   There is no reason for any noticeable lag from one to the other.  In the world of computers, yes, the 9600 baud transfer rate is painfully slow with serial data rates of 115,000 bps, or more, being common place today, but when we are talking human interaction with a remote, 9600 is still insanely fast.  for the numbers, a TMCC command is 24 bits long plus, I believe an extra bit is used in the protocol as a stop bit.  Lets be generous and say that every command takes double the data that it should, 50 bits.  Even in that case, the bases could send 192 separate commands every second.  There should be no 'delay' that is perceivable to humans, as we tend not to be able to see changes less than about 1/20 of a second.  In addition, the Cab1 only sends out a new command about 10 times a second, much slower than the data connection can send them between the two bases.  You can actually see this watching the red light blink on your base, as it flashes once with every command sent.  

On the issue of replacing everything with cab1l's  this is a nice upgrade, but really only offers 2 or 3 improvements versus the original Cab1's

First you get rid of the antenna on the remote, which is nice.  Second, you can operate the quelling whistle on legacy locomotives from the Cab1l.  The last I need to confirm, but it has been reported that the throttle responds better on the cab1L, giving better control of the engine's speed.  I think this is because it sends absolute speed commands like Legacy, rather than the relative speed commands that the original remote sends.  

JGL

It also supports 99 Legacy Trains (lash ups).

Lionel16 posted:

One more question, if we decide to purchase the Cab1L, what features do we forfeit that are gained with using the Cab-2.

Well, you lose tons of features if you're considering the LCS system!  The BASE1L has no engine database.  You lose access to special features triggered in the aux lighting menu, and I suspect the new AUX3 key features as well.

IMO, the best combo is a Legacy #990 system and then add CAB1L remotes if you want that functionality, they talk to the Legacy base.

Good post Nick, I see that you got several good responses.

This info will make for good discussion at the next Club Meeting!.....................Brandy!  

Nick,

   I also believe you may loose some of the ultimate slow speed control that I have with the Legacy Cab2, maybe the Constant Speed Control for hills also.  However I am not totally sure of this, I own no Cab1L, however this is what seems to happen when I see people running with them.  

PCRR/Dave

@Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Gentlemen,

   As usual Guns gives great advise, go with the Cab1L, better yet go Legacy Cab2!

PCRR/Dave

Are there any CAB-2 controllers still available from Lionel?

Andrew

Unfortunately, there are not.

They've been sold out for a number of years, well before the Cab 3 App (which replaces it) and Base 3 went into production.

You'll need to look for a used one if you want one.

Mike