First Time to York - Suggestions Please

First timer huh... You will have fun. I'm flying in from California (about my 9th time). I arrive Tuesday night, then Wed morning eat breakfast at Lyndon Dinner (about 6 miles away from York)then go to bandit meet at Windham Hotel across the street. After bandit meet, I drive to TCA Museum (45 min drive), then down the road to Railroad Museum of PA (Huge!), then across the street to Strasburg train depot (real passenger steamer and home of NW 611). Then about 4 pm head on to Red Lion Train club. Then after drive back to hotel area for dinner.

For the York meet, I go to opening Thursday at noon, then about 10am Friday/Saturday. If you wanted to meet at Lyndon's dinner for breakfast on any of those days, I would be open to that. I go every morning, so any day would work. It's a 50's style dinner and good eats, plus most of the waitresses wear their train shirts. You can use Google to search the sites below to get a sense of direction/distance for locations, ideas below. What ever you choose, it will be fun!

Address's

Wyndham Garden Hotel: (bandit meet before York meet)             (Hotel and Lyndon dinner across the street)

2000 Loucks Rd, York, PA 17408

Lyndon Dinner:

1353 Kenneth Rd, York, PA 17404

Red Lion Train Station: (3-rail layout and small museum)

73 N Main St, Red Lion, PA 17356

TCA National Toy Train Museum: (great scenery of Amish community/farmland)

300 Paradise Ln, Ronks, PA 17572

Jim, Richard.....you are welcome to join us here Thursday AM......just a 10-12 minute drive (west on Rte 30) from the Wyndham/Lyndon Diner area.....a great place to meet fellow "York goers" before the show......

Peter

https://ogrforum.com/...fast-october-20-2022

Check out the various threads on the York meet section of the forum. 

For one day, Friday is best.  Bring lots of cash.  Read Clem's Primer (several folks have already posted the link).

I have to agree with @Mallard4468 on doing Friday if it’ll be your only day. I found it hard to cover everything in 2 days actually but I was also doing several trips back to the car since I was buying several large buildings. It’s a bit overwhelming at first, but you’ll slide right into the groove. Have a great first York and report back with how it went!

We all look forward to meeting you. Make sure to wear comfortable walking shoes.

@Putnam Division posted:

Jim, Richard.....you are welcome to join us here Thursday AM......just a 10-12 minute drive (west on Rte 30) from the Wyndham/Lyndon Diner area.....a great place to meet fellow "York goers" before the show......

Peter

https://ogrforum.com/...fast-october-20-2022

Thank you Peter, sounds like a plan!

My first 2-3 times at York were day trips (also about 4.5 hours drive each way for me).  I went Fridays as Fridays are the longest days (9am-6:30pm), but if you anticipate arriving around noon, then Thursday is just as good, although I would try to get there before noon so that you don't spend valuable show-is-open time waiting in line at the registration desk.  Thursday is also the informal OGR gathering after the meet at Quaker Steak & Lube (1411 Kenneth Road, York, PA 17408); we take up the back area and the back half of the dining room and probably a good chunk of the rest of the restaurant as well.   The food trucks/carts on the fairgrounds are good for a quick lunch (and better than fast food, at least).

Anyway, here are my tips:

• Print and take with you a copy of the fairgrounds map from the meet notice.  It makes it easier to navigate.  I made the mistake of not taking it on my 2nd trip and I almost forgot to visit White Hall where I would have missed out on several treasures I brought home that trip.
• If you want to find and visit specific dealers in Orange Hall, print the PDF's under the "Dealer Hall Charts" section of this page, and make notes if you can't read the printing on the printed charts themselves.  The web site says "April", but the charts appear to be for this meet.  You can get good copies of the charts for all the halls at the meet, so you can get away with just the "Company Names" list for Orange hall.
• When registering in Silver Hall, invest in one of the badge holders they sell there ($3 I think) if you don't have a suitable one already.  You have to display your badge to enter the halls, and the holder also has places to store business cards, pens, and other small items.
• Cash is king at the meet.  Most dealers in Orange take plastic, but you will get better deals with cash.  There are ATM's on the fairgrounds, but they sometimes run out, meaning a trip outside of the fairgrounds to find one.
• Wear comfortable shoes and remember to stay hydrated -- you will be doing a lot of walking (my record is 10 miles on a Thursday, according to my pedometer).
• Dress for the weather, and assume that the forecast will be wrong.   Weather at York can range from warm and sunny to cold and rainy (sometimes at the same meet and even in the same day), so having appropriate jackets or coats in your car is a must, even if you don't use them.
• If you see something you really like, do not hesitate to buy it or make an offer because it will likely not be there when you circle back around to take a second look.
• Remember that member halls close before the dealer and layout halls.  There is a wide variety of stuff in the member halls from antique to modern, so don't assume that you won't be able to find goodies there.
• Bring change and small bills to tip the restroom attendants.
• For future reference, if you are comfortable camping in a tent, or trailer/RV, or can comfortably sleep in your vehicle, camping on the fairgrounds is the most inexpensive way to stay in York, and the coin-op showers in Orange Hall are pretty nice.  Details for this option can be found in the meet notice.
• Check out Clem's Primer for even more information.
• Talk to people.  I have met so many interesting people there, had many interesting conversations, learned so many things, and made many amazing friendships there.  This is one of the best things about the York Meet that is rarely found at other train shows and meets.
• And above all, have fun!

My first trip to York was overwhelming, but in a good way.  It wasn't long before I was going for two days, and then for three days, becoming a table-holder (in Blue Hall section K), and then four days (going out a day early to hit the Bandit Meets), and now five days -- leisurely drive out Tuesday afternoon and staying overnight in Gettysburg (cheaper hotel than York) so that we can hit the Bandit Meets without having to get up at too-early-o'clock.

Andy

I only do it overnight (I drive there Thursday in time for the noon open, spend the night, then go friday and then usually go home by early afternoon). If you are going to do a day trip, Friday is likely the best day since it has the longest hours. It is possible on thursday to start at noon and hit all the halls, but it is cutting it close, and you likely might miss good things because you don't have time to look as much. Thursday has the benefit of Quaker Steak and lube dinner, you get to meet people there and is highly worth it. Friday if you can get there by 9am gives you more time in the halls, which especially if you are looking for anything specific would give you more time to do so. If I was going to do a day trip I might do  Thursday just to do Quaker Steak and lube, but I generally also am going there in part to meet people.

In terms of food, there is the typical food in the Orange Hall (typical convention center food.....nuff said) but there are food trucks and some of it isn't bad.

Even as a day trip it is worth it, if I couldn't get the time off to do both days or the hotel cost was out of my budget, I would go as a day trip and prob do thursday (I don't really drink, so driving home after the Quaker State and Lube wouldn't be a problem).

Good shoes, maybe a nice backpack.   You should be prepared to walk at least 5 miles during the day.  There is usually medical help available at this complex. ??? I believe there was handicap assistance mobility available ( I could be wrong)??? , Plenty of food/drinks available.   Eating area has a lot of sit down/rest chairs.  Have fun, Mike CT. 

If you're in town Thursday we begin gathering for dinner around 5:15/5:30 at Quaker Steak and Lube.  Pretty much take over the entire back half of the restaurant.

-Greg

Andy, that's a GREAT summary of what to do and how to do it.

Gerry

The Fairgrounds venue is an old funky place, with a bunch of big old buildings. When you enter the grounds in your car, you will suddenly realize that you have reached Train Nirvana. Park anywhere you are directed; there are few rules.  The buildings are assigned color names by the sponsor of the event, the Eastern Division of the TCA.

The Red, White, Blue, Black and a few other halls have hundreds of tables where you can shop for old, antique, used, and new items from individual members. Some members specialize in a certain make, or age, or scale. others sell specialized accessory products, like scenery, buildings, construction parts, etc.

Commercial sellers / dealers are generally assigned tables (hundreds of them) in the Orange Hall.

As the other guys have stressed, comfy shoes, foul-weather gear, lots of small bills, shopping bags for small stuff, a list of stuff you want, and a note pad to write down the table numbers of things you want to go back and buy (if they're still available).

Prepare to be overwhelmed (in a good way.)

I am once again OVERWHELMED by the helpfulness of the Forum Members.  Joining the forum was the best thing I have done since getting involved with O Scale!  Kudos to all that have responded and others to previous questions I have asked!  Lots of great info and suggestions.  Going to "memorize and take notes" from this thread and Clem's Primer!

I now thinking about coming Thursday and going to Quaker Steak and Lube after the show.  I can then judge if I am ready to drive back home or sleep in the car.  If the car is too full to recline the seat probably time to head home, if not "Watch out Friday".

I have a tendency to like to meet new people that like Model Trains, so may take me all 3 days to get through the halls.  When I go to local shows often "open and close" them after taking to everyone at the show (that are train guys).  I don't bother the families with kids looking for Thomas the Tank Engine, other than letting the parents know they are getting the kids "on the right track" (pun intended)!  Most laugh, some tell their spouse and kids to avoid eye contact.  LOL

Look forward to meeting one and all.  Thanks Again!

Jim, doing York in one day is difficult. You "can" do it by walking fast by all the tables in all the buildings. And only stopping occasionally to check out a train or two. If you like to stop, look and wonder if you like what your looking at and talk to the seller a bit, then it will take two days at least. Then there is the orange hall where all the dealers and manufactures are. I understand you will be pressed for time and have a long drive, Just do the best you can. Maybe take a tent and pay the $40.00 (I think that is the price) and sleeping bags and sleep right on the fairgrounds. There are lots of RV's there and yes, people tent there too. They have restrooms and showers. It will be worth it!

@MainLine Steam posted:

...I now thinking about coming Thursday and going to Quaker Steak and Lube after the show.  I can then judge if I am ready to drive back home or sleep in the car.  If the car is too full to recline the seat probably time to head home, if not "Watch out Friday".

I have a tendency to like to meet new people that like Model Trains, so may take me all 3 days to get through the halls.  ...

Save yourself the stress and just get a room now - you WILL want to stay.

And if you like to talk with people, there's no way that you can do it all in one day. 

Embrace the madness.

I concur...

Lots of great advice.  Mine is go here: http://www.warehousegourmet.net/

Great chow should be in the plan. Stay a night and go back the next day  

I gotta tip my cap to you if you can drive 4.5 hrs, walk around the meet all-day and then drive 4.5 hrs home - even more so if you hang out a couple of hours at dinner.   My days of doing stuff like that ended in my early 30s.  Heck, nowadays a 5 hr round trip to my son's college and back is about my limit. 

-Greg

@MainLine Steam posted:

I now thinking about coming Thursday and going to Quaker Steak and Lube after the show.  I can then judge if I am ready to drive back home or sleep in the car.  If the car is too full to recline the seat probably time to head home, if not "Watch out Friday".

If you think you might want to stay in your car overnight on the fairgrounds, you have to pay the fee for camping listed in the meet notice.  If you make the decision during the meet, you can probably go to the registration desk in Silver Hall and ask them to help you arrange it (I don't think it is an option after the meet closes for the evening).  The bathrooms and coin-op showers in Orange Hall are accessible from the outside all night during the meet, as are some of the other facilities around the camping area.  The shower room in Orange Hall has lockers, but you have to bring your own padlock.

Another route would be to check hotel availability outside of York (good rooms will be scarce in York itself at this late date, and expensive).  When I was going by myself (no roommate to split hotel costs), I used to stay at the Value Inn Harrisburg-York just off I83 in Etters, PA; it is about a half hour from the fairgrounds.  I've also stayed in Hanover, PA (a little longer drive).  A booking site like Hotels.com (the one I use) can help you find something close enough and give you an idea on prices -- be sure to pay attention to ratings and read some of the reviews, especially when looking at the low-price options.

Andy

Consider an AirBnB host for a one-night stay. I have been using AirBnB since 2017 and have had some great stays. The cost is much less than the local hotels and most times the accommodations are nicer. My hosts have included a local chocolatier, a downtown historic home, PA State Police family, pro sports events manager and local tea house owner.

I have to go on the side with trying to stay overnight and an airbnb might work out better than a hotel, my son is a travelling musician in a classical chamber group and they travel all over the country and even overseas, airbnb has worked out well for them where they are doing their own accomodations.

The other factor to keep in mind is the site is spread out over a relatively large area, the halls are pretty big, so you will be doing a lot of walking (me, I tend to park at the head end of the site, which adds to my walking, which I probably need) and if you are anything like me you get tired by the end of the day. The show is probably like the largest show you been to magnified several times (outside of things like trainfest) and it is easy to get overwhelmed.  Others are correct that you won't be able to do a deep dive if you do it as a day trip.

The other thing is most people who go to York are pretty friendly, and one of the fun parts is getting to talk to people, both the people selling at the meet and people attending it. There are some people who are cliquish (like with any group of people), but most people going seem to enjoy chewing the fat as much as I do (metaphorically, you won't catch me eating scrapple in any way, shape or form). Having time to talk for me is huge.

@Andy Hummell posted:

If you think you might want to stay in your car overnight on the fairgrounds, you have to pay the fee for camping listed in the meet notice.  If you make the decision during the meet, you can probably go to the registration desk in Silver Hall and ask them to help you arrange it (I don't think it is an option after the meet closes for the evening).  The bathrooms and coin-op showers in Orange Hall are accessible from the outside all night during the meet, as are some of the other facilities around the camping area.  The shower room in Orange Hall has lockers, but you have to bring your own padlock.

Another route would be to check hotel availability outside of York (good rooms will be scarce in York itself at this late date, and expensive).  When I was going by myself (no roommate to split hotel costs), I used to stay at the Value Inn Harrisburg-York just off I83 in Etters, PA; it is about a half hour from the fairgrounds.  I've also stayed in Hanover, PA (a little longer drive).  A booking site like Hotels.com (the one I use) can help you find something close enough and give you an idea on prices -- be sure to pay attention to ratings and read some of the reviews, especially when looking at the low-price options.

Andy

I know a club member who would occasionally sleep in his car at the fairgrounds.  I don't think he ever bothered to pay the fee - I'm not advocating this, but it's up to the individual.  As I recall, the fee is around $40 - for me, I'd spend the extra money to get a warm bed, hot shower, and breakfast.  Not to mention that you won't smell like you slept in your car.

My preference is to join the program for your preferred hotel chain (I use Wyndham Rewards and Choice).  Might not always be the cheapest, but usually close, and you earn points and have easier recourse if there's a problem.

@Mallard4468 posted:

I know a club member who would occasionally sleep in his car at the fairgrounds.  I don't think he ever bothered to pay the fee - I'm not advocating this, but it's up to the individual.

I'm sure there are others that have done this or currently do this.  As this fee ($50) is to cover insurance liability costs required by the fairgrounds (not the EDTCA), I'm also sure the EDTCA would probably take some kind of action should a person get caught doing this.  Personally, I wouldn't want to risk being banned from York or possibly being charged with trespassing just to save what amounts to the cost of an average freight car.

Andy

There's nothing to stop people from sleeping in their car at the fair grounds. I doesn't cost anything. You can always tell the one's that slept in their car. When you a next to them looking at trains at a table, they smell terrible.

Well I don't make it a habit of sleeping in my car (don't want to give anyone the wrong idea).  Maybe just me, but if homeless would be looking at using my money to put a roof over my head, not buying O Scale trains.  To each their own.  LOL

Anyhow, sounds pretty convincing I should plan on 2 days.

Even though my first York, have done many Trainfest (since it was mentioned).  Up until 4 years ago lived about an 1.25 hours from Milwaukee (WI State) Fairgrounds.  Also until 1.5 years ago was into HO.  When I was on vacation in WI last month I did visit Sommerfeld's.  Can anyone give a size comparison between the two?

BTW I agree food is important part of a plan.  I want to be me, not Hangry me.  Despite what some people think, it doesn't just affect small kids.  When I was dealing with customers, if they were being particularly feisty, I would often "CAREFULLY" ask if they had eaten recently.  Usually the answer was no, I would then go get them a snack.  Believe it or not, an Apple can help sell a $35K car.

Thanks for all the input, it is helping a lot, glad I asked.

@MainLine Steam posted:

...

Anyhow, sounds pretty convincing I should plan on 2 days.

Even though my first York, have done many Trainfest (since it was mentioned).  Up until 4 years ago lived about an 1.25 hours from Milwaukee (WI State) Fairgrounds.  Also until 1.5 years ago was into HO.  When I was on vacation in WI last month I did visit Sommerfeld's.  Can anyone give a size comparison between the two?

...

Glad you're planning on 2 days.

Re Trainfest vs. York comparison - the Orange (dealer) hall at York is almost as large as the main hall at Trainfest, and it's mostly dealer space.  In addition, there are 4 other member halls (sometimes 5) and another hall with layouts.

Trainfest is more layout-centric (hoping it stays that way with the change of ownership) and the dealers are primarily "professionals".  At York, you'll find far more rare and unusual items.

I knew it would not be long before this thread got hijacked and the discussion of sleeping in cars and not showering and smelly people (not you Mainline-Steam-Jim). Since this is your first trip and your not sure what you want to do, me not knowing your financial situation, you can do on the cheap. For RV parking (that would include a tent) it would cost $51.00, I just checked. In the orange hall, their are showers and restrooms of course for RV-ers. For $51.00 + $30.00 for a tent at Walmart, you can spend the night for $81.00, the cost of a new box car. What ever you choose, you will have the time of your life. Seeing thousands of trains, new, old and something different. You will meet many fine people and perhaps make new friends. There is a LOT to see, so two days is a minimum without running through the isles. AS I stated in the first post to your questions, I would still be willing to meet you for breakfast and I will treat. Send me a email if your interested.

By the way, I came from the HO world too and belonged to an HO club many years ago, so I'm a hard core railroader myself..

In answer to your question about the size difference between O and HO:

True O scale is a ratio of 1 to 48.  There are many products that are true 1:48 scale.

True HO, as used in the USA, is a ratio of 1 to 87. HO is "almost" half of O scale, but a tad bigger than half.

Lionel post-war trains, and some newer Lionel and other compatible manufacturers' trains are smaller than 1:48. they can range from 1:48 down to almost S scale, which is 1:64.

When assembling a layout, and if you're a person who is trying to achieve scale fidelity, these differences in scale can be troubling. Automobiles, trucks and busses are more often than not made in the 1:45 scale, because that's an industry standard for those toys.  If you put a post-war 3400-series boxcar, which is built in approximately 1:64 scale, it will be dwarfed by a 1:45 automobile, and the lack of scale correlation will be very obvious. The same remarks refer to those little people who will live on your layout. You can find bags of them on Ebay in 1:64, 1:50 (the best choice for slightly smaller than 1:48 trains) 1:48 and 1:45 scales.

"If it were easy, anybody could do it" is the motto of many of us trying to keep everything and everybody in scale.

Happy to say that I moved and now live within 30 minutes of York.

One BIG tip: If you see something you really like don't sit on the fence and ponder. When you go back it will be gone or, as has happened to me many times, you will not be able to remember exactly where it was located and will not be able to find it again.

ENJOY

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

The Fairgrounds venue is an old funky place, with a bunch of big old buildings. When you enter the grounds in your car, you will suddenly realize that you have reached Train Nirvana. Park anywhere you are directed; there are few rules.  The buildings are assigned color names by the sponsor of the event, the Eastern Division of the TCA.

The Red, White, Blue, Black and a few other halls have hundreds of tables where you can shop for old, antique, used, and new items from individual members. Some members specialize in a certain make, or age, or scale. others sell specialized accessory products, like scenery, buildings, construction parts, etc.

Commercial sellers / dealers are generally assigned tables (hundreds of them) in the Orange Hall.

As the other guys have stressed, comfy shoes, foul-weather gear, lots of small bills, shopping bags for small stuff, a list of stuff you want, and a note pad to write down the table numbers of things you want to go back and buy (if they're still available).

Prepare to be overwhelmed (in a good way.)

Very helpful, thanks Arthur.

@Greg Houser posted:

I gotta tip my cap to you if you can drive 4.5 hrs, walk around the meet all-day and then drive 4.5 hrs home - even more so if you hang out a couple of hours at dinner.   My days of doing stuff like that ended in my early 30s.  Heck, nowadays a 5 hr round trip to my son's college and back is about my limit. 

-Greg

Same here.

Remember Funnel cakes, with all the toppings, go great with Mountain Dew!

And the Around The Clock Diner has the best scrapple!

More seriously, Keep looking at even if you looked before. I was looking for a engine with a Kodachrome paint scheme. I had looked in the Brown hall several times over the weekend.  It wasn't until my last trip to the Brown hall that the vendor had pulled one out that he had beneath the table the entire show.

Looking under a table is a good hint too

Pacing the apartment in anxious anticipation of heading to York.  Hopefully the adrenal surge helps me get there, walk all the halls and keeps me going until I get home and collapse for 3 days!  Seriously I am planning on Going to Quaker Steak and Lube, and staying overnight Thursday.

If anyone is still around to read this, can you suggest the order to go through the halls in?

I want to again thank all that have posted, great stuff here!

@MainLine Steam posted:

If anyone is still around to read this, can you suggest the order to go through the halls in?

I want to again thank all that have posted, great stuff here!

If you are into Modern trains with electronics.......Orange.....then just take your pick of the rest...

If you are into PostWar.....Blue, Silver, 1st; then, Red & White .....AF seems always more prevalent in Red.

If you are into Standard Gauge....Blue and Silver, 1st; then Red; then White

....and this is just opinion, but it's based on nearly 40 years of Yorks.....April 83 was my 1st....and excluding the Covid shutdowns, I have missed only two others......

Have fun! I think you are going to have a blast!!!!!!

Peter

@Putnam Division posted:

If you are into Modern trains with electronics.......Orange.....then just take your pick of the rest...

If you are into PostWar.....Blue, Silver, 1st; then, Red & White .....AF seems always more prevalent in Red.

If you are into Standard Gauge....Blue and Silver, 1st; then Red; then White

....and this is just opinion, but it's based on nearly 40 years of Yorks.....April 83 was my 1st....and excluding the Covid shutdowns, I have missed only two others......

Have fun! I think you are going to have a blast!!!!!!

Peter

Great summary.

And mind the arrows on the floor.  In the good/bad old days, you would get curbstomped for walking against the arrows. 

cbojanower's post brings up another thought:

If you're looking for strange and esoteric stuff and parts, take a look under the tables, especially in the member halls.  You can often find very interesting, and often cheap, things in the boxes that the seller has stored under the tables.

I once found the one missing car (the RPO with intact mailbag hook) that I needed to complete my AMT Santa Fe passenger lineup, hiding in a box of old Marx tinplate. Ya never know!

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

cbojanower's post brings up another thought:

If you're looking for strange and esoteric stuff and parts, take a look under the tables, especially in the member halls.  You can often find very interesting, and often cheap, things in the boxes that the seller has stored under the tables.

I once found the one missing car (the RPO with intact mailbag hook) that I need to complete my AMT Santa Fe passenger lineup, hiding in a box of old Marx tinplate. Ya never know!

I once found someone sleeping...no joke.

-Greg

York TCA Meet Forum

You could also have a look in the York TCA Meet Forum as well beside quite a bit of what has been said here. There are a number of topics that have been posted within a week or more ago(if you haven't already).

That said, one thing that I forgot to mention on one of the other topics is be sure to bring a good variety of breakdown bills. You want to have $10, $5, and $1 in a good abundance. The bathroom attendants at the meet are volunteers, and work really hard to keep the bathrooms clean. Though folks are not obligated to give money, it is a good thing to do. Also, interact with these folks, make them feel like they are invisible. I always seem to say a few things like ask how they are doing, sports talk, or just anything. Makes you feel good.

@Greg Houser posted:

I once found someone sleeping...no joke.

-Greg

Greg, I love your terrific sense of humor. Arnold