Why does FL seem to have more abandoned mainlines that other states? Even NS abandoned their only line into the middle of the state. SCL was not kind to SAL routes as well.
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Before Cuba became a dictatorship there were hundreds of carloads of freight that were delivered to ferries to go to Cuba and return with produce. These shipments are now non-existent. That is one reason.
Tommy wrote:
Before Cuba became a dictatorship there were hundreds of carloads of freight that were delivered to ferries to go to Cuba and return with produce. These shipments are now non-existent. That is one reason.
Very interesting thought.
Peter
Why? Because the four or more railroads that once connected Florida to the rest of the US have been merged down to just two.
Other than the ports and some oranges, there is not much for railroads to do in Florida.
The railroads haul coal south into florida, and haul oranges and carribian rum north, out of Florida 
The FEC is probably the most important RR in Florida. CSX is its only competitor. NS serves Jacksonville and its ports. CSX serves Jacksonville and Tampa.
FEC handles the three major ports in south Florida. A lot of freight gets transferred from the FEC to NS and CSX.
Several short-lines have bought up the old abandoned lines and are still operating.
Former mainline to Cuba?? Or, to Key West?
Ace,
Almost. Ended in Key West, car ferry to Cuba.
Guys,
Fresh oranges are no longer shipped north in reefers, they travel as concentrate or on the Juice Train. I can remember long lines of reefers on sidings prior to the star start of fresh pack shipping.
Further industry losses: several paper mills that took in train loads of pulp wood and shipped train loads of paper for paper bags and cardboard have closed.
ChipR
With the improvements to CSX's Baldwin to Tampa main and the shift of traffic away from the Orlando line...will CSX still run manifest and intermodal through Orlando and then west to Tampa or will any of these lines be downgraded?
The SunRail commuter project will be operating on CSX trackage through Orlando.
CSX will still be using it, but mostly on nights and weekends.
The Orlando line runs near my house. Most of what I see are coal trains heading to Palatka and Orlando. Maybe only 3 or 4 Intermodal trains per week.
I think CSX is phasing out its small intermodal operation in Orlando. They recently completed a large intermodal facility in Winter Haven. This was the topic of debate among communities along the Ocala-Baldwin line, fearing that increased RR traffic would cause traffic problems at grade crossings.
Wish I had some insight from someone on the inside as to how operations at Taft have/will change due to the Sunrail schedule. My grandfather worked there through the SCL/Chessie years. I'm already missing the big intermodals and freights passing through Orlando/Winter Park/Maitland throughout the day.
As a side note, I highly recommend anyone in Florida pick up the SPV Comprehensive Railroad Atlas of North America (Southeast). It's a must-have, especially if you'd like to explore old lines.
Flagler's railroad the FEC ran from Jacksonville FL to Miami FL and later to Key West FL, never any rail service south of Key West. The seven mile bridge that Henry Flagler built for the railroad was still being used into the 1970's for car traffic to Key West, and most of highway U.S. 1 was built on the original track bed that Flagler laid. Only one exception and that is Bahia Honda park area, and that old railroad bridge is still standing, except you can't get to it. The old railroad station is still in Key West but it is a an antique shop or something like that.
Flagler's railroad to Key West was destroyed in 1935 by a hurricane and three years later was used for car traffic to Key West.
FEC currently runs freight from around St. Augustine to about central Miami FL and has a side line over to the mining area in Broward county for sand or rock for the cement plants it supplies. Also another side line near Ft. Pierce FL for cement plant servicing. There used to be a siding in Hobe Sound FL for the rich to park their private passenger cars on so they could go to Jupiter Island. So far NO passenger service on FEC, maybe in 2016? The only thing needing to be done is to lay track between Orlando FL and Cocoa Beach FL and hook-up to the FEC main line at Cocoa, might be half way completed. West Palm Beach has a small rail yard for FEC.
The last regular passenger train ran in 1964 on FEC before the passenger rail workers strike, and then FEC laid off all passenger workers and stopped passenger service that year.
Norfolk Southern uses the FEC line to Miami FL.
CSX runs from Jacksonville to Orlando then south to Okeechobee and then west through Indiantown to West Palm Beach FL. Tri-rail shares the CSX line in southeast Florida. Also Amtrak uses the CSX line to go through Florida on.
On the west coast was Seaboard RR, I don't know their history or who bought up the line if anybody.
At Fort Meyers FL there is a dinner mystery train called Seminal Gulf RR. Try it if you go to Ft. Meyers area, it runs in the late afternoon.
Lee Fritz
I wonder which states do have the most miles of abandoned railroads?....I would not
think Florida to have as many as some others, including Pa., with coal branches once
all over the place, and some larger states with more real estate to cross. Colorado
has plenty, with many miles of narrow gauge abandonments. I even wonder if that
is accurately recorded, for so many obscure shortlines came and went.
Who owned the trackage from Jacksonville, across the panhandle through Pensacola, and on to New Orleans before it was CSX?
Flash,
The simple answer for the section from Jacksonville to River Junction(Chattahoochee FL) is Seaboard Airline RR (SAL) followed by Seaboard Coast Line (SCL). The total answer is vary complicated because there were so many shortlines. A few are Florida Central and Peninsular, Florida Central and Western, Tallahassee RR, Pensacola and Georgia, Florida, Atlantic and Gulf Central and the Jacksonville, Pensacola and Mobile.
The section from Chattahoochee to Pensacola and Mobile was L&N followed by SCL.
For a history of some of the shortlines that ran for many years, google taplines.net.
Beebe and Clegg covered many of the same lines in their great book, "Mixed Train Daily".
ChipR
Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:
I wonder which states do have the most miles of abandoned railroads?....I would not
think Florida to have as many as some others, including Pa., with coal branches once
all over the place, and some larger states with more real estate to cross. Colorado
has plenty, with many miles of narrow gauge abandonments. I even wonder if that
is accurately recorded, for so many obscure shortlines came and went.
There's a lot in California. The big cause of closure of rail lines is loss of customers/loss of profitability. A lot of losses came from trucking being capable of carrying larger loads for longer distances.
Large chunks of SP were abandoned even before the UP takeover in 1996, largely remnants of the Pacific Electric. A good reference site is http://www.abandonedrails.com
I think its silly when areas complain about increased rail traffic and the effect on grade crossings. The railroad was there first...would they rather have increased truck traffic in front of and behind their cars rather than at the occasional crossing? The railroads constantly push to remove grade crossings and they often get their wish anytime a road project is undertaken.
On average...how many daily trains does FEC run? They do have a beautiful infrastructure for a short line.
Originally Posted by ChipR:
Flash,
The simple answer for the section from Jacksonville to River Junction(Chattahoochee FL) is Seaboard Airline RR (SAL) followed by Seaboard Coast Line (SCL). The total answer is vary complicated because there were so many shortlines. A few are Florida Central and Peninsular, Florida Central and Western, Tallahassee RR, Pensacola and Georgia, Florida, Atlantic and Gulf Central and the Jacksonville, Pensacola and Mobile.
The section from Chattahoochee to Pensacola and Mobile was L&N followed by SCL.
For a history of some of the shortlines that ran for many years, google taplines.net.
Beebe and Clegg covered many of the same lines in their great book, "Mixed Train Daily".
ChipR
For some reason I thought, at one time, the Southern Pacific ran a coast-to-coast passenger train from Jacksonville to Los Angeles. But maybe they only ran it part of the way.
quote:
Only Amtrak ran the sunset limited from coast to coast, and only from 1993-2005. At first it ran all the way to Miami, and was later cut back to Orlando.
The FEC runs about 8 trains a day. Two of them are hotshot intermodals from jacksonville to Miami and back. The rock trains run when needed, usually every other day or so. There are also several "short" hauls that service trackside industries both south of jax and other cities . The FEC is also NASA's rail connection-- when the Shuttles were flying the solid rocket booster sections were delivered by the FEC.
FEC also moves Tropicana reefers northbound out of Ft Pierce area.
Originally Posted by Mike W.:
I think its silly when areas complain about increased rail traffic and the effect on grade crossings. The railroad was there first...would they rather have increased truck traffic in front of and behind their cars rather than at the occasional crossing? The railroads constantly push to remove grade crossings and they often get their wish anytime a road project is undertaken.
What possible difference could that make? Weren't the Indians here first?
Kind of like people who buy a house near the airport and complain about
the noise.
The railroad atlas I mentioned earlier confirms all the information that ChipR provided. I double-checked it because I didn't think L&N ever had a presence in FL--I was wrong!
The amount of abandoned track in the panhandle is unbelievable--at a glance, at least 50% of what was there is gone.
The amount of abandoned track in the panhandle is unbelievable--at a glance, at least 50% of what was there is gone.
Its just that all we here about is environmental sustainability and rail is by far the most environmentally friendly way to move freight...yet the nimbys blow up anytime they want to build a new intermodal terminal or anything.
Originally Posted by Grampstrains:
Originally Posted by Mike W.:
I think its silly when areas complain about increased rail traffic and the effect on grade crossings. The railroad was there first...would they rather have increased truck traffic in front of and behind their cars rather than at the occasional crossing? The railroads constantly push to remove grade crossings and they often get their wish anytime a road project is undertaken.
What possible difference could that make? Weren't the Indians here first?
Kind of like people who buy a house near the airport and complain about
the noise.
In order for Sunrail to work they should have straightened out the curvy route through Orlanda and removed some of those huge grade crossings...all over the place.
As far as loss of customers resulting in line closures...sometimes you have to work hard to attract new business to your line...rather than defer maintenance to the point where customers switch to trucks.
I think trucks often have an unfair advantage...not to mention use of a public infrastructure...yes they pay taxes but hardly enough to cover the damage they cause. Yet they are allowed retreads that come apart in front of traffic...I leave work at night and travel the interstate for 20 miles...speed limit is 60...hard pressed to find a truck doing less than 70...often 75 or so...and if they are behind you they run right up on you. But they are rarely pulled over. Yet if a train blasts through a small town at 70 its the end of the world.
8 each way? They have such a nice track..single with long sidings, CTC, concrete ties. That line could easily handle 40 trains per day.
Originally Posted by Fec fan:
The FEC runs about 8 trains a day. Two of them are hotshot intermodals from jacksonville to Miami and back. The rock trains run when needed, usually every other day or so. There are also several "short" hauls that service trackside industries both south of jax and other cities . The FEC is also NASA's rail connection-- when the Shuttles were flying the solid rocket booster sections were delivered by the FEC.
Anyone know if the circus still runs their train through Sarasota to their winter headquarters? I lived right next to that line some twenty years ago, but never saw anything on it.
I think that FEC is more then a short line railroad. It has over 300 miles of track to include sidings to a couple areas for freight movement, like the rock quarries near Ft. Lauderdale FL.
On another note the circus train uses CSX motive power and tracks through Orlando FL.
Lee Fritz
Mike, I said 8 each day-- that's an average. If the traffic warrants it, they run more. It's a very effciently run RR. And when they get the All Aboard Florida trains running, there will be 4 or 6 passenger trains per day, too. Most of the trains operate at hours that don't inconvienence the car/truck traffic-- Down here in South Florida there are lots of crossings--- up above west palm beach there aren't as many--
"In order for Sunrail to work they should have straightened out the curvy route through Orlanda and removed some of those huge grade crossings...all over the place."
more damaging to potential SunRail success is that they are running short trains every 30 min. they will not move enough people to make an impact on I4 traffic. they don't run at night or on weekends, either.
more problematic than the "curvy" route through orlando is the fact that north of Winter Park through to Longwood there is only a single track. makes volume two way traffic impossible.
Originally Posted by Forrest Jerome:
"In order for Sunrail to work they should have straightened out the curvy route through Orlanda and removed some of those huge grade crossings...all over the place."
more damaging to potential SunRail success is that they are running short trains every 30 min. they will not move enough people to make an impact on I4 traffic. they don't run at night or on weekends, either.
more problematic than the "curvy" route through orlando is the fact that north of Winter Park through to Longwood there is only a single track. makes volume two way traffic impossible.
Jerome, I think that you are referring to the CSX tracks in Orlando and not FEC as each company has, or will have, their own set of tracks through Orlando FL.
Currently FEC should be working on the tracks from Orlando to Cocoa Beach FL and the junction point at Cocoa Beach.
Lee Fritz
I had off between 9:00 am and 1:30 pm when I drove school bus for Martin County FL (Stuart and Indiantown)and I used to try to watch the FEC train in Stuart FL deliver the 100 ton sand hoppers to the cement plants, the hoppers would be parked on either side of the crossing but the road would be open for traffic. The road was closed only when the freight cars were going across the railroad crossing, otherwise the brakeman would turn off the signal lights at the crossing. It ran between 9:30 am and 2:00 pm.
A Norfolk Southern train would run south later in the day around 6 or 7 pm, sometimes they had four GP-60's lashed together for power.
There is a set of FEC tracks west of Indiantown FL on highway 710, called Marcy Grade, and I found out they go to the sugar cane area in Palm Beach county.
I get to see Tri-rail sometimes and sometimes an Amtrak train in the morning, now that I live in West Palm Beach FL. If we go too far on the bus I get to see an FEC train sometimes in the morning.
Lee Fritz
Cuba had a succession of dictatorships before Castro, but the cut off of trade was probably a factor.
When I was in Ft. Lauderdale last month I saw long freight consists a few times a day. The coastal lines seem to be doing well.
Originally Posted by Tommy:
Before Cuba became a dictatorship there were hundreds of carloads of freight that were delivered to ferries to go to Cuba and return with produce. These shipments are now non-existent. That is one reason.
"Jerome, I think that you are referring to the CSX tracks in Orlando and not FEC as each company has, or will have, their own set of tracks through Orlando FL."
SunRail runs on the CSX tracks.
All Aboard Florida, the proposed Orlando-Miami rail service will run on FEC tracks and the portion from Cocoa to Orlando along the Beach Line (SR528) has to be built. this project is still in the formative stages.
Flash,
"For some reason I thought, at one time, the Southern Pacific ran a coast-to-coast passenger train from Jacksonville to Los Angeles. But maybe they only ran it part of the way".
Starting in 1928, the SAL/L&N/SP ran a 12-1 sleeper from Jacksonville FL to Los Angeles CA. Not sure how long it lasted. In later years, SRR and SP ran a Washington DC to LA sleeper.
ChipR
