I got to say, I was skeptical, but he did make some legit points. Thoughts?
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Overall a pretty well done production.
However, his assertion that a few small improvements on the NE Corridor would allow 125 mph speeds over the entire route is seriously flawed. All the track improvements in the world cannot straighten curves, and that's where the speed restrictions are. You simply cannot negotiate many of the curves on the corridor at 100+ mph, no matter what kind of equipment is being used.
The video is right on about a lot of things, should've been titled "Why Passenger Train Service Sucks in the U.S." Maglev would solve alot of issues especially in the N.E. corridor, but, it's very cost prohibitive. Local passenger service like the V.R.E. in Virginia is pretty successful, however.
The narrator made a well reasoned and fact-based argument. I agree with the suggested title revision in the above post.
I think every person who posts on the Trainorders Passenger Board should have to watch that video. Too many people that can't separate fantasy and personal desires from facts.
OGR Webmaster posted:Overall a pretty well done production.
However, his assertion that a few small improvements on the NE Corridor would allow 125 mph speeds over the entire route is seriously flawed. All the track improvements in the world cannot straighten curves, and that's where the speed restrictions are. You simply cannot negotiate many of the curves on the corridor at 100+ mph, no matter what kind of equipment is being used.
Rich,
You must have watched a different video than the one above as from what I saw, his take is 180° from what yo just stated. He addresses the expence at buying property and straightening out the line beginning at the 4:45 mark and go through the 5:20 mark.
No, the video implied that if the Acela could just run to its 125MPH potential everywhere, that would be a huge improvement without costing $60,000 per foot like a true high speed line would require. I think Rich is saying that Acela could not run 125 on some portions of the line even with improvements (not replacement) to the existing ROW. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
mikey posted:It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
Right! All at taxpayer expense.
mikey posted:It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
At the $63,000 per foot, (which is likely low) ? NO THANKS. Besides, dropping you in the middle of a European town and a US town are very different things, as the video shows. In a lot of US cities, you can be downtown and be thirty miles from where you need to be.
He clearly made that point in the video.
Hot Water posted:mikey posted:It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
Right! All at taxpayer expense.
Even if such a system were built, regardless of who paid for it, it would be a miserable failure in the US because we are simply too geographically far apart, and too independently minded. We want to go where we want to go when we want to go there. We can't be hindered by such trivialities as a train schedule.
Matt Kirsch posted:Hot Water posted:mikey posted:It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
Right! All at taxpayer expense.
Even if such a system were built, regardless of who paid for it, it would be a miserable failure in the US because we are simply too geographically far apart, and too independently minded. We want to go where we want to go when we want to go there. We can't be hindered by such trivialities as a train schedule.
I wonder if people could afford to drive and even fly if our freeways and airports were privatized, and become tax paying?
Big Jim posted:You must have watched a different video than the one above as from what I saw, his take is 180° from what yo just stated. He addresses the expence at buying property and straightening out the line beginning at the 4:45 mark and go through the 5:20 mark.
We watched the same video.
The producer says that it would be "...unbelievably expensive to raze a bunch of houses and build a new, straighter route..."
He also correctly stated that the entire NE corridor "...is incredibly densely populated. And there truly is no open space between the cities..."
At $151,000,000,000 (that's 151 Billion, with a "B") to straighten out the corridor, (plus the inevitable cost overruns, of course) there is absolutely no chance that it will ever happen.
And the NEC has many types of trains: Commuter, Regional, Acela, Long Haul, and freights. I do not hing any other corridor in the world has such a mix outside of terminal trackage.
Dieselbob posted:mikey posted:It is a shame that the funding for passenger service improvements can't be done here in the US,I ride the trains in Europe and they are fast,on time and clean and drop you in the middle of town.
Mikey
At the $63,000 per foot, (which is likely low) ? NO THANKS. Besides, dropping you in the middle of a European town and a US town are very different things, as the video shows. In a lot of US cities, you can be downtown and be thirty miles from where you need to be.
Good point. I’ve ridden trains in Europe and when you step off a train there, you generally are within a short cab ride (at the longest) to almost everything you’d want to see in said town. And in many cases, there’s a streetcar waiting to take you most other places.
Not so in the US. We all know that most depots are on the outskirts of towns except in big cities. Take where I live; I can take the Amtrak Cascades to Seattle or Portland with ease (the nearest depot is about 10 miles from my front door, with decent parking). But what happens when I get to either place? Most of the tourist things to do in Seattle are nowhere near King Street Station, except if I’m wanting to go watch the Seahawks or Mariners playing or go to the international district. Every other thing you’d do as a tourist is many miles from there.
Portland Union Station? It’s down by the river, downhill from the entire city. Same deal there but at least they have light rail.
In either case, NOTHING like Europe.
People in Europe, generally, have no concept of the scale of the US. Heck, most Americans don’t, either. You can’t grasp the size of the continent unless you drive across it. I’ve crossed the US from one corner to another on three occasions (once in a PCS move for the Army alone, once on a Florida/Washington State sightseeing trip with my wife and a third by Amtrak via the Capitol Limited and Empire Builder) and I full understand how big this nation is. No way could you run trains everywhere in such a vast place.
Germany is roughly the size of Georgia (to a degree), and most Europeans can’t grasp something bigger than Europe and certainly not as one nation.
I'll still take the train over flying.
That video sounds exactly like TRAINS' Magazine passenger columnist, who is young, pro-European, and definitely has a socialist slant to all his columns.
My advice to him and his ilk is "suck it up buttercup" or move to Europe...
Isn't most of europe heavily congested with truck traffic because of lack of rail freight network?
This is where the NEC at present has an advantage. You can go from long haul to Acela, to regional or commuter, and or connect to local transit. Very few places in the US one can do that.
I would rather have that mix than the one size fits all of high speed rail.
With airport security today takes the need for as high a speed for rail away. Sorry Mav and Goose. (TOP GUN)
Great comparison of apples and corvettes.
The progression of developement in Europe is far different than the USA. The size of the cities and layout is much different. I like the summers in Colorado, I just don't want everything else that comes with Colorado so I'm staying where I am.
The grass is always greener in someone else's lawn. I ain't seen any of those Hollywood whiners leave the USA yet. I'll help pay for the move.
The Acela runs from Stamford, Connecticut to Boston in about two hours, I believe. I live one hour from Stamford. I can drive to Boston in 2 hours 45 minutes. Gas plus tolls equal about $27 one way. Do the math. Rich Melvin is eminently correct.
willygee posted:Isn't most of europe heavily congested with truck traffic because of lack of rail freight network?
No. Have you ever been?
Limey posted:willygee posted:Isn't most of europe heavily congested with truck traffic because of lack of rail freight network?
No. Have you ever been?
Well, I have, and even MANY years ago, the main highways were TOTALLY JAMED with trucks!
WHY drive in Europe when you can take their great trains?
Tinplate Art posted:WHY drive in Europe when you can take their great trains?
Because the train doesn't stop in the towns in Germany where my wife's family lives. Goes right through one, but doesn't stop. You have to drive something like 30 miles to actually get on the train.
I thought this was well done. In my case, living in the NE Corridor, I'm happy enough with things as they are. Although we fly a lot, we take the train between Philadelphia and Boston (Rt.128 station) 4 times a year. The trip takes 5 1/2 hours and costs less than $150. per person, round trip. We never take the Acela since the tickets are more than double, and you only save a half hour. The scenery on this trip is great from NYC to Providence, RI (the NYC skyline, HellGate Bridge, boats and beaches on Long Island Sound), but my favorite view is the heavy traffic on the highways that I'm avoiding.
I'm also lucky in that the local train from my house to Philadelphia is only a 7 minute walk to our station. Then it's a 5 minute walk from the local to the Boston train.
BTW, the NE Corridor is the only route making money.
There's been suburbanization in Europe, too. And, the roads have not kept up. Highways are jammed with people driving to work.
Heavy trucks come more into play around port areas, just certainly as it does around Port Newark/Elizabeth in my New Jersey.
Joe Hohmann posted:I thought this was well done. In my case, living in the NE Corridor, I'm happy enough with things as they are. Although we fly a lot, we take the train between Philadelphia and Boston (Rt.128 station) 4 times a year. The trip takes 5 1/2 hours and costs less than $150. per person, round trip. We never take the Acela since the tickets are more than double, and you only save a half hour. The scenery on this trip is great from NYC to Providence, RI (the NYC skyline, HellGate Bridge, boats and beaches on Long Island Sound), but my favorite view is the heavy traffic on the highways that I'm avoiding.
I'm also lucky in that the local train from my house to Philadelphia is only a 7 minute walk to our station. Then it's a 5 minute walk from the local to the Boston train.
BTW, the NE Corridor is the only route making money.
Above the railhead, maybe. If you include the ROW, no.
I drive in Europe quite a bit and the truck traffic is not as bad as here in Ca on I 5,I 880,I 580 or US 101 and the freeway systems in Germany,France and Italy are pretty good.
Mikey
My Thought’s - “Why Train Suck in America” / Video
I do subsribe to this channel, Wendover Productions and left the comment below, about 7 months ago.
Things are getting better with the new Siemens, SC-44 Charger Locomotive, built at Sacramento, California, Top speed of 125 Miles Per Hour and 4400 HP. Amtrak and several other road names and California Department of Transportation are running this locomotive and more are on order from Siemens. Still not as fast a other nations, but Amtrak, has to share the rails with freight trains.
Wendover Production is a profession YT Channel, based in The United Kingdom. He is a YT Full Partner. Any YT channel with over 100K views can become a YT full partners, Also any channel with over 1K can also become a partner, but with less business perks. This video did over 2.5 million views.
YT pays there top channels about $4.50 to $5.50 per 1000 views in U.S. Dollars. This video has 2,421,815 views as of today’s date. At $5.00 per 1000 views this video earned about, $484,362 U.S. Dollars.
In his own words he talks about being a political channel based on world economics. I do see a red flag, he is out to make money or tell the truth.?
I feel that when he plans his story boards for each video, he plans on using objectives that will give him a larger audience. Thus, bending or changing the truth, may happen for getting a larger audience. If you want the truth. “Always follow the money trail”.
Gary: Rail-fan
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Americans always underestimate the cost of driving since they have a car (or two) they tend to forget about purchase price, maintenance, insurance, and say things like "it's only $30 in gas" why does Amtrak charge $55 for same trip? Well the true cost of driving about $180 and Amtrak is a bargain.
We would probably have a modern transportation infrastructure too... if we had been carpet bombed in the 1940's.
Jon 
Farmer_Bill posted:Americans always underestimate the cost of driving since they have a car (or two) they tend to forget about purchase price, maintenance, insurance, and say things like "it's only $30 in gas" why does Amtrak charge $55 for same trip? Well the true cost of driving about $180 and Amtrak is a bargain.
Perhaps, but the automobile does something AMTRAK cannot do , make a door to door trip and on YOUR schedule, not theirs. Also, what about all those times you need to haul more than will fit in a suitcase? What happens if you STILL need a car when you get to your destination? Rent one and spend still more money? Besides, I already have a car, and the payments and the license plates and the insurance go on whether I'm using it or for a trip or it's sitting in my garage.....
Dieselbob posted:Farmer_Bill posted:Americans always underestimate the cost of driving since they have a car (or two) they tend to forget about purchase price, maintenance, insurance, and say things like "it's only $30 in gas" why does Amtrak charge $55 for same trip? Well the true cost of driving about $180 and Amtrak is a bargain.
Perhaps, but the automobile does something AMTRAK cannot do , make a door to door trip and on YOUR schedule, not theirs.
Not to mention the fact that you can stop to eat with your car, at ANY restaurant and be sure that the restaurant has NOT RUN OUT OF FOOD!!!!!
Also, what about all those times you need to haul more than will fit in a suitcase? What happens if you STILL need a car when you get to your destination? Rent one and spend still more money? Besides, I already have a car, and the payments and the license plates and the insurance go on whether I'm using it or for a trip or it's sitting in my garage.....
Dieselbob postedPerhaps, but the automobile does something AMTRAK cannot do , make a door to door trip and on YOUR schedule, not theirs. Also, what about all those times you need to haul more than will fit in a suitcase? What happens if you STILL need a car when you get to your destination? Rent one and spend still more money? Besides, I already have a car, and the payments and the license plates and the insurance go on whether I'm using it or for a trip or it's sitting in my garage.....
True about the door to door, but are you going to drive 800 miles just for the convenience of having your own car? Last trips we took by train and usually don't need a car at the other end. Cab or bus or friends fill in that gap.
IRS mileage allowance is 54c per mile and they're not giving anything away. It really costs more than $864 to drive that 800 miles and back.
Amtrak readily accepts two large suitcases at no charge per passenger, though we don't usually take advantage of that. We pack pretty light except with Christmas presents!
And yes, we pay auto insurance but since we drive less it costs less, so we save money there too.
Hot Water postedWell, I have, and even MANY years ago, the main highways were TOTALLY JAMED with trucks!
Sort of sounds like US Interstates.
Simon
Farmer_Bill posted:Dieselbob postedPerhaps, but the automobile does something AMTRAK cannot do , make a door to door trip and on YOUR schedule, not theirs. Also, what about all those times you need to haul more than will fit in a suitcase? What happens if you STILL need a car when you get to your destination? Rent one and spend still more money? Besides, I already have a car, and the payments and the license plates and the insurance go on whether I'm using it or for a trip or it's sitting in my garage.....
True about the door to door, but are you going to drive 800 miles just for the convenience of having your own car? Last trips we took by train and usually don't need a car at the other end. Cab or bus or friends fill in that gap.
IRS mileage allowance is 54c per mile and they're not giving anything away. It really costs more than $864 to drive that 800 miles and back.
Amtrak readily accepts two large suitcases at no charge per passenger, though we don't usually take advantage of that. We pack pretty light except with Christmas presents!
And yes, we pay auto insurance but since we drive less it costs less, so we save money there too.
Would I drive the 800 miles? Yes, I likely would. We go from Indiana to Dallas every couple of years. We used to fly, but the Metroplex is no place to visit without a car, especially when your BIL lives 30+ miles out in country. Honestly, the drive for me is about as fun as the trip. Three people and a small SUV jammed to the gills for about the cost of ONE plane ticket. I can't think of any other trips we take that DON'T require a car unless we want to sit and do nothing all day, and very few of the places we go have train service anywhere near it anyway. Plus, I can travel when I want to, stop anywhere I want and can pinpoint my arrival time to within a 1-2 hour window on a 1000 mile trip. I own lower priced vehicles and drive them until the wheels fall off, so the 54 cents a mile would be like getting a paycheck for me, and my insurance does not discount for low miles, so no savings there. I just did a rough calculation on both of our vehicles and came up with approximately $.40 a mile cost for the SUV (bought new) and $.30 for my truck, (bought used) the biggest difference being the purchase price.
Good for you! 800 mile drive is no fun for me anymore.
Used to drive A LOT, had an economy car that got great mileage, and still could not break even with IRS rates; used to itemize every dime and got tired of that too. 40c in an SUV? I suspect you are forgetting some hidden costs of car ownership. Maybe you do all your own maintenance and don't charge anything.
OK, enough of that! Everything said, trains don't suck! 
In todays traffic 800 miles on the highway sounds like a town in Michigan called Hell. I drive to York because its the only way to transport myself and packages. and then I leave at midnight to avoid traffic, shame because it should be a pretty drive. I don't normally drive east of my town in south east Michigan because traffic is bad. The train for me is best for long distance, Sure is a big beautiful country we live in, and I always make a new friend or two in route. However Amtrak should be more like VIA Canadian.
Amtrak Yes
Clem
