It would make sense to use the O-6-O for the short local trips. I was going to take a ride up this morning, but I started cleaning my work shop yesterday, and was going full bore this morning, so I decided to stick with the project at hand. Since I'm only twenty minutes south, I can go any time. There is a live steam show coming in February to the trolley museum, so that may be a good opportunity.
Don
superwarp1 posted:3713 is going to get restored, she's half way done now.
No she isn't! R formal request for quotation was issued by the Park Service, some two or more months ago, the cut-out and completely replace all the "incorrect" firebox work that had previously been performed by outside contractor/contractors. Only two companies have responded to that RFQ, and no responses from the Park Service have been received.
In addition to all the boiler/firebox work required, absolutely NOTHING has been done to 3713's running gear!
Only need money and manpower.
And there in lies the MAJOR problem, i.e. MONEY!!!!!!
My only question about 3713 which has large drivers 70" I think and plans are to restore the booster. Even with a booster which I thought are only used for starting a engine. How would 3713 handle the mountains to Moscow or the like?
Luckily Steamtown is working with another organization who can help raise money to restore 3713. That should help a bit.
Arcticrevive posted:Luckily Steamtown is working with another organization who can help raise money to restore 3713. That should help a bit.
Interesting, as they will surely need a LOT of money for 3713.
The Railroad historical Society in Northeast Pa was counting on funds from the 765 rail excursions that were scheduled for the summer of 2015. They were cancelled due to ownership issues. They have a raffle underway to help raise funds as well. Top prize is a Weaver B&M 3713 locomotive. The raffle will continue until all 1000 tickets are sold.
Don
Hot Water posted:superwarp1 posted:3713 is going to get restored, she's half way done now.
No she isn't! R formal request for quotation was issued by the Park Service, some two or more months ago, the cut-out and completely replace all the "incorrect" firebox work that had previously been performed by outside contractor/contractors. Only two companies have responded to that RFQ, and no responses from the Park Service have been received.
In addition to all the boiler/firebox work required, absolutely NOTHING has been done to 3713's running gear!
Only need money and manpower.
And there in lies the MAJOR problem, i.e. MONEY!!!!!!
My only question about 3713 which has large drivers 70" I think and plans are to restore the booster. Even with a booster which I thought are only used for starting a engine. How would 3713 handle the mountains to Moscow or the like?
I'll get the low down when I talk to the group restoring her in to weeks.
superwarp1 posted:Hot Water posted:superwarp1 posted:3713 is going to get restored, she's half way done now.
No she isn't! R formal request for quotation was issued by the Park Service, some two or more months ago, the cut-out and completely replace all the "incorrect" firebox work that had previously been performed by outside contractor/contractors. Only two companies have responded to that RFQ, and no responses from the Park Service have been received.
In addition to all the boiler/firebox work required, absolutely NOTHING has been done to 3713's running gear!
Only need money and manpower.
And there in lies the MAJOR problem, i.e. MONEY!!!!!!
My only question about 3713 which has large drivers 70" I think and plans are to restore the booster. Even with a booster which I thought are only used for starting a engine. How would 3713 handle the mountains to Moscow or the like?
I'll get the low down when I talk to the group restoring her in to weeks.
I'm not so sure you will get the "low down", especially pertaining to the issued "Request for Quotation". The folks behind the 3713 don't seem to want to discuss THAT, as there essentially is NO MONEY to let any contracts! Nor do they want to "talk about" all the incorrect work done on poor 3713 to date, by outside contractors.
Just my opinion but, nobody at that show will be knowledgable in, nor willing to, discuss specifics.
That's not the impression I get, they go to this show every year to raise money and while I forget there names at least one of them is responsible for all the work that has been done to date. I will ask and go from there.
superwarp1 posted:That's not the impression I get, they go to this show every year to raise money and while I forget there names at least one of them is responsible for all the work that has been done to date. I will ask and go from there.
Well, if he has been "responsible for all the work done to date.", that person is REALLY suspect!
Say, Don (Rail), any leads on where to score a raffle ticket? Sounds like a great opportunity for a chance to own a Weaver brass B&M engine, and to support the cause of restoring # 3713 at the same time! Thanks, David
I'm sure there are more tickets left. I'll try to get over to one of our other schools where one of the aides works. Her son is a member and would be able to get more. They're a bit pricey at $20, but there are several prizes, and it is for a good cause.
Don
Arcticrevive posted:As for BLW #26, she may be ready to run, but her first excursion is scheduled for April. Probably needs time to get recertified for passenger service.
When it comes to locomotives, there is no such thing as being "...recertified for passenger service." If the locomotive is in compliance with FRA rules, it is fit for service....ANY kind of service the railroad wants to assign it to. There is no separation of classifications between freight and passenger service as far as the FRA is concerned.
As I suggested in the other thread where you posted inaccurate information, you might want to do a little research before you make comments like this. Using speculation and Twitter feeds for your sources guarantees that you will be working with incorrect information provided by people who know nothing about what is going on. None of the people who are in the know about what really went on there are wasting their time posting on Twitter.
OGR Webmaster posted:Arcticrevive posted:As for BLW #26, she may be ready to run, but her first excursion is scheduled for April. Probably needs time to get recertified for passenger service.When it comes to locomotives, there is no such thing as being "...recertified for passenger service." If the locomotive is in compliance with FRA rules, it is fit for service....ANY kind of service the railroad wants to assign it to. There is no separation of classifications between freight and passenger service as far as the FRA is concerned.
As I suggested in the other thread where you posted inaccurate information, you might want to do a little research before you make comments like this. Using speculation and Twitter feeds for your sources guarantees that you will be working with incorrect information provided by people who know nothing about what is going on. None of the people who are in the know about what really went on there are wasting their time posting on Twitter.
While at Steamtown a while ago, soon after they had painted 663 and 664 in Lackawanna colors, there was a sign tied to the latter of one of the two which was sitting in the yard while the other was out in use pulling an excursion. That sign clearly stated that it was awaiting to be certified for passenger service. These are diesels, maybe it is different for them? If I recall correctly they were changing the ride height of the locomotive for some reason. Maybe thats why it had to get certified? Maybe not the engine itself but instead a specific part of the engine is what had to be certified and they didn't express that in this sign. But I do know that sign was there and what it said.
I made an assumption that this was also necessary for a steam locomotive after a complete teardown becasue it was necessary for a diesel locomotive after nothing close to that amount of work. Obviously I was wrong.
Sorry for once again posting false information here Mr. Melvin, I will make sure my posts are made up of more accurate information in the future.
Hot Water posted:superwarp1 posted:3713 is going to get restored, she's half way done now.
No she isn't! R formal request for quotation was issued by the Park Service, some two or more months ago, the cut-out and completely replace all the "incorrect" firebox work that had previously been performed by outside contractor/contractors. Only two companies have responded to that RFQ, and no responses from the Park Service have been received.
In addition to all the boiler/firebox work required, absolutely NOTHING has been done to 3713's running gear!
Only need money and manpower.
And there in lies the MAJOR problem, i.e. MONEY!!!!!!
My only question about 3713 which has large drivers 70" I think and plans are to restore the booster. Even with a booster which I thought are only used for starting a engine. How would 3713 handle the mountains to Moscow or the like?
"On the fundraising front, individual donations and grants have helped us meet the first $145,000 of our $750,000 goal."
Link to the article this quote is from on the on Project 3713 Website: http://project3713.com/wp/?p=542
The article is about reviewing the fundraising in 2015. 3713 will get there eventually. Money is indeed a key player in the process!
Money is the ONLY player in the process.
There's quite the collection of varied steam at the AOS. They might be able to make a good trade. It's a shame there isn't any viable Eastern Pennsylvania steam that would fit their criteria. It should be something that ran in the states at the very least.
Jon 
According to CNJ 113 people I spoke with yesterday, rebuild work has started on a Reading T1. I believe he was talking about 2102 in Port Clinton. I will try to get more details. http://www.rbmnrr.com/happenin...to-return-in-service
There has been money spent on several locomotives at Steamtown, part of the 2008 economic stimulus/recovery.
Note the Reading loco. 2010 picture. Noted cosmetic work, remove asbestos, external sheet metal and paint.
Recent money spent at Steamtown was to put the turntable back to decent operating condition. April 2015 pictures.
Dave Zucal posted:According to CNJ 113 people I spoke with yesterday, rebuild work has started on a Reading T1. I believe he was talking about 2012 in Port Clinton. I will try to get more details.
If you mean the #2102, at the Blue Mountain & Reading shops, they have NOT started the "rebuild work". The work being done on her boiler is investigative only, in order to determine what will be required as part of the FRA mandated 15 year inspection, and much more importantly, HOW MUCH MONEY WILL BE REQUIRED.
Nitpick note to Arcticrevive: There is no "and" in Grand Trunk Western.
Perhaps I'm being a simpleton and looking at this the wrong way but raising money seems to be the ultimate challenge for Steam Town.
That said, if you're hurting for cash, wouldn't you be better off restoring or putting back in to service the locomotive that is closest to operating condition AS IT CURRENTLY SITS? Wouldn't that be NKP #759?
Steam Town isn't exactly next door to Fort Wayne, IN. I don't know how much of "detriment" it would be that NKP #765 is already up and running. (I would also wager that the good folks in Fort Wayne have many, many things they could share with or impart on the crew at Steam Town since they operate a sister locomotive....very well.)
Steam Town is also much closer to several major metropolitan areas on the East Coast. I don't see how Steam Town could ever really be "in competition" with Fort Wayne as they serve almost entirely different geographical markets.
Just my two cents as my coffee is getting cold......
My biggest concern with Steamtown is the time required to rebuild equipment. The 0-6-0 took 15+ years. Their NKP GP9 is in pieces and awaiting repairs. The two Canadian steamers are in pieces and awaiting repairs. The B&M Pacific is in pieces awaiting restoration. It would be great to see another operating steam engine at Steamtown, but I honestly doubt they have the budget and time to get it accomplished.
Berkshire President posted:
That said, if you're hurting for cash, wouldn't you be better off restoring or putting back in to service the locomotive that is closest to operating condition AS IT CURRENTLY SITS? Wouldn't that be NKP #759?
Maybe, maybe not.
You can't make assumptions about a locomotives restorability just by looking at it. It's like "This Old House." You don't know what you'll find until you start tearing into things.
Besides, 759 or any other static locomotive also has to be brought up to current standards and regulations.
Rusty
Berkshire President posted:Perhaps I'm being a simpleton and looking at this the wrong way but raising money seems to be the ultimate challenge for Steam Town.
That said, if you're hurting for cash, wouldn't you be better off restoring or putting back in to service the locomotive that is closest to operating condition AS IT CURRENTLY SITS? Wouldn't that be NKP #759?
You are absolutely correct! In spite of all the positive reasons to "restore" NKP 759, the never-ending rhetoric out of many "Steamtown people" concerning all the negative reasons for returning 759 to operation, are simply too funny for words. I've heard negative reasons, such as:
1) The NKP Berks, such as 759 have "too many high tech appliances". Soooooooo, just what in the devil is "high tech about twin cross compound air compressors, the Worthington Type S Feedwater Heating system, the Nathan non lifting injector, and the Standard Stoker?
2) The NKP 759 would be "too big for their operation". No joke!
3) The NKP 759 will not fit on the turntable. How come NKP 765 fit the turntable?
In conclusion, the Steamtown folks seem to be putting all their eggs into the B&M 3713 basket, which will undoubtedly cost a LOT more money to COMPLETELY rebuild, than the 759. As a side note, many of the now departed "B&M Old Timers", stated more than once that the 3713 was the worst locomotive of the group! It in fact even had overheated driver journals just being towed from Vermont to the current Steamtown location.
Steam Town isn't exactly next door to Fort Wayne, IN. I don't know how much of "detriment" it would be that NKP #765 is already up and running. (I would also wager that the good folks in Fort Wayne have many, many things they could share with or impart on the crew at Steam Town since they operate a sister locomotive....very well.)
Steam Town is also much closer to several major metropolitan areas on the East Coast. I don't see how Steam Town could ever really be "in competition" with Fort Wayne as they serve almost entirely different geographical markets.
Just my two cents as my coffee is getting cold......
Berkshire President posted:...I would also wager that the good folks in Fort Wayne have many, many things they could share with or impart on the crew at Steam Town since they operate a sister locomotive....very well.)...
We have a COMPLETE set of mechanical drawings for EVERY PART on the 765. From the smallest 3" pipe bracket to an 8-foot long side elevation drawing with all the running gear dimensions on it...we've got them all. These drawings were made from the linen tracings from which the blueprints were made! The drawings were all microfilmed and digitally scanned to preserve them for the future.
We have already shared these drawings with other organizations that own AMC Berks, including Steamtown. Should they decide to take a look at the 759, they have a full set of mechanical drawings for everything on that loco.
Rich,
Not to mention THAT, but my long time friend, Wesley D. Camp, who was/is Ross Rowland's Chief Mechanical Officer and one of the most experienced & knowledgable NKP Berk experts, would be more than willing to provide his expertise and operational knowledge to help the Steamtown folks.
So, let's see here: Getting NKP 759 running will be much less expensive and will require much less time and effort than the B&M 3713 would. In short, there is much less RISK involved with the 759....and it's more likely to be a successful project for Steam Town.
Wouldn't prudence....or just plain common sense....dictate that the smart thing to do is to first get the NKP 759 up and running again? Then, once you've demonstrated your ability to successfully bring back the 759, run it, and maintain it......you can then...and only then....tackle the 3713?
I would also opine that if Steam Town were to demonstrate that it can be "successful" with the 759, it would be much easier to raise money....public and private...to then fund the 3713 or any other future project.
Then again, what the heck do I know? 
Has an analysis ever been done on 759 to figure out what it would ACTUALLY cost to get it back in service, instead of relying on opinion and rumor??
ecd15 posted:Has an analysis ever been done on 759 to figure out what it would ACTUALLY cost to get it back in service, instead of relying on opinion and rumor??
That's probably tough to quantify. But I think the point is that if it will cost X to get the 759 up and running, it will (conceivably) cost many times that amount to get the 3713 to the same state.
And while rumor and opinion rarely get the job done, input from Hot Water and Rich on this topic should carry a LOT of weight, IMHO....as they are clearly some of the best subject matter experts in the world today.
Berkshire President posted:The NKP 759 will not fit on the turntable. How come NKP 765 fit the turntable?
The table at Steamtown is a 90-foot table. The wheelbase of an NKP Berk is 89' - 8.75". It will fit, but just barely, with only 3.25" of extra room on the table. The pilot and the rear of the tender extend far past the ends of the table, thus the need to remove all the protective fencing around the table to turn a Berk.
We've turned the 765 on a 90-foot table before, but getting the locomotive properly positioned on the table was a very slow and careful process.
______________________________________________________________________
Berkshire President posted:And while rumor and opinion rarely get the job done...
Rumor and opinion will NEVER get the job done. That's what Twitter is for - baseless rumors and useless, uninformed opinions from "expert" foamers. 
______________________________________________________________________
Berkshire President posted:...Getting NKP 759 running will be much less expensive and will require much less time and effort than the B&M 3713 would....
The 759 would have to be disassembled for a thorough and complete inspection of her boiler, running gear and appliances before you could assess which engine would be the best restoration candidate. Rumor and opinion don't count for anything here. Only facts.
ecd15 posted:Has an analysis ever been done on 759 to figure out what it would ACTUALLY cost to get it back in service, instead of relying on opinion and rumor??
OK, "opinion and rumor" aside, one aspect alone should weigh in favor of 759 over 3713, and that is the FACT that 759 has roller bearing driver axles, while 3713's running gear is plain bearing, and damaged at that!
765 in the house at Steamtown with a tube problem, last fall.
And 759
Great pix, Mike! Thanks for sharing!
Berkshire President posted:Great pix, Mike! Thanks for sharing!
Pictures were taken during a Shop Tour, we were not allowed on the floor at the time. Restricted walking bridge is accessible. One additional photo of the two tenders together.
765 near, 759 far. Size is a concern in the house as well as on the table. Bigger/longer than these two locomotives would be tough. IMO.
The spit/broken flue tube allowed steam/water to mix with the fly ash from the fire box. The paste mixture collected in the smoke box and had to be removed as well as the broken tube replaced. (Done at Steamtown) Note the cleaned smoke box door/front.
Note the small notch cut in the screen panel bottom front right. I assume this allowed access to the tube, or super heater tube, (edit, add), that needed replaced/repaired. Removing all the soot would have been an interesting dirty job, IMO.
Not sure what happens when the Engineer/fireman determine they have a problem like this. 765 had to operated for awhile with the split tube to fill the smoke box with soot. How long it ran this way, I'm not sure. It is interesting that the repair was done at Steamtown.
I could be wrong and often 
Mike CT
Let's not forget that one of the big reasons that #3713 is the next to be restored is that the L&WVRHS (Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley Rail Historical Society) partnered with Steamtown and is providing a lot (if not most or all) of the funding to get the engine restored. If someone wants to start a group or pay lots of money to put the 759 in front and get it done quicker - then by all means, go ahead! Otherwise, why is everyone complaining about Steamtown not restoring this or that locomotive - put your money where your fingers are on the keyboard and donate/fundraise/get it done!
Full disclosure - I have donated money and will continue to donate money to the #3713 group, towards returning operational mainline steam to Steamtown on a consistent and regular basis.
Mike CT posted:Not sure what happens when the Engineer/fireman determine they have a problem like this. 765 had to operated for awhile with the split tube to fill the smoke box with soot. How long it ran this way, I'm not sure. It is interesting that the repair was done at Steamtown.I could be wrong and often
We think the flue failed on the return run from Jim Thorpe to Allentown on the previous Sunday. The fireman on that leg noted that something changed slightly with the draft and she was ever so slightly harder to fire. Same was noted on the deadhead move to Steamtown.
The failed flue had about a 2.5" circumferential crack in it at the front flue sheet. We knew for sure that something was wrong during shut-down when we noticed a small amount of water dripping from the smokebox. There should NEVER be any water in the smokebox!
A pile of cinders in the smokebox is quite normal. The failed flue had nothing to do with that. Removing the cinders was slightly complicated because they were damp due to the failed flue. Normally everything up there is dry as a bone and an old shop vac does the job quite nicely.
ecd15 posted:My biggest concern with Steamtown is the time required to rebuild equipment. The 0-6-0 took 15+ years. Their NKP GP9 is in pieces and awaiting repairs. The two Canadian steamers are in pieces and awaiting repairs. The B&M Pacific is in pieces awaiting restoration. It would be great to see another operating steam engine at Steamtown, but I honestly doubt they have the budget and time to get it accomplished.
Would the maintenance of the other two steam locos they had running eat up enough time/money that it made work on #26 as slow as it was? Becasue it does worry me a bit too.
Also, does anyone know Steamtown's annual budget? In doing research I saw an article from 2008 that said it was $5.2 million but im not sure how accurate the article was becasue it was on a news site I've never been to before and I'm not sure how much the budget has changed since then.
OGR Webmaster posted:Mike CT posted:Not sure what happens when the Engineer/fireman determine they have a problem like this. 765 had to operated for awhile with the split tube to fill the smoke box with soot. How long it ran this way, I'm not sure. It is interesting that the repair was done at Steamtown.I could be wrong and often
We think the flue failed on the return run from Jim Thorpe to Allentown on the previous Sunday. The fireman on that leg noted that something changed slightly with the draft and she was ever so slightly harder to fire. Same was noted on the deadhead move to Steamtown.
The failed flue had about a 2.5" circumferential crack in it at the front flue sheet. We knew for sure that something was wrong during shut-down when we noticed a small amount of water dripping from the smokebox. There should NEVER be any water in the smokebox!
A pile of cinders in the smokebox is quite normal. The failed flue had nothing to do with that. Removing the cinders was slightly complicated because they were damp due to the failed flue. Normally everything up there is dry as a bone and an old shop vac does the job quite nicely.
I have always found it amazing how small of a difference in an engine's preformance a fireman/engineer can notice. I know it's part of their job to know that kind of stuff but to be that in tune with such an incredible machine is mind blowing to me.
Arcticrevive posted:OGR Webmaster posted:Mike CT posted:Not sure what happens when the Engineer/fireman determine they have a problem like this. 765 had to operated for awhile with the split tube to fill the smoke box with soot. How long it ran this way, I'm not sure. It is interesting that the repair was done at Steamtown.I could be wrong and often
We think the flue failed on the return run from Jim Thorpe to Allentown on the previous Sunday. The fireman on that leg noted that something changed slightly with the draft and she was ever so slightly harder to fire. Same was noted on the deadhead move to Steamtown.
The failed flue had about a 2.5" circumferential crack in it at the front flue sheet. We knew for sure that something was wrong during shut-down when we noticed a small amount of water dripping from the smokebox. There should NEVER be any water in the smokebox!
A pile of cinders in the smokebox is quite normal. The failed flue had nothing to do with that. Removing the cinders was slightly complicated because they were damp due to the failed flue. Normally everything up there is dry as a bone and an old shop vac does the job quite nicely.
I have always found it amazing how small of a difference in an engine's preformance a fireman/engineer can notice. I know it's part of their job to know that kind of stuff but to be that in tune with such an incredible machine is mind blowing to me.
Thank you for the explanation, Rich, Articrevive.
Mike CT.
Way way back in this thread, there was a request for information on the raffle. Tickets are $20.00, but your odds are 1000:1. That is not a bad deal. We plan to hold the drawing at RailFest 2016 as a goal, but want all tickets sold first. If the last ticket sells this weekend, then the drawing will be then. Here is the link on www.project3713.com for the tickets: http://project3713.com/wp/?page_id=273
Also, for a winter special, if you make a donation to 3713 of $50.00, you get a complimentary raffle ticket. For $100.00, you get a second. This should be in effect until March 31, unless the last ticket is sold before then. We have about 500 left to sell, so it should be possible to get one in that time. If you think that is a rip-off, then buy 5 tickets outright for the $100.00. The complimentary ticket is offered to those who don't know about the raffle.
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