Freight with Passenger cars?

Mixed trains, freight and passenger, were once quite common on branch lines throughout the country. I've even seen photos of a Union Pacific mixed train pulled by E units! A book, probably now out of print, called "Mixed Train Daily" used to be a good resource. I've seen the passenger cars at the front, behind the locomotive,  or at the rear of the freight.

I've also seen passenger trains that had freight-type box cars among the head end cars. I think one of the Lionel Jersey Central Box Cars is even lettered "for passenger train service."

The Georgia Railroad used to operate a mixed train between Augusta and Atlanta, one of the last operated, I believe. I think I have a photo of it that I took back in the 1970's. I will will look for it and post if I can find it. I remember the passenger coach was stainless steel/streamlined.

 

Bottom line: I think you can order the cars in any way you prefer, or they run the best, and there will be a prototype for it somewhere.

 

 

Yes, they were quite common. They were caled "mixed trains."

 

A good example is the N&W Abington branch mixed freight during the fifties pullled by a Molly. Besides it's freight consist usully carried a combine for passenger service.

 

 

Thanks for the info!  I didn't want to assume, but it only made sense to me that there would have been mixed train type setups used at one time.  If not just for convenience, but also the cost advantage of moving both cargo types at the same time.   

As mentioned above, they definitely rolled into the diesel era.  The Bloomfield L&N branch from Shelbyville to Bloomfield, Kentucky ran through my great aunt's farm,

and is pictured with what I think is a Baldwin diesel road switcher.  It was made up

of freight cars with a Jim Crow (baggage compartment in the middle separating

two passenger compartments) combine on the end.  My mother rode that train to

visit her aunt during the steam era.

UP's trains 369 and 370 were mixed east of Denver to/from Ellis(?) on the Kansas City line.  I have a photo of one pulled by a FEF 4-8-4 with a streamlined coach and a heavyweight baggage/express car.  We replicated it on the DSMR's Colorado midland just before we shut down whilst Denver Union Station is being rebuilt.

 

http://denveroscaleclub.org/

 

ChipR

I have a video that shows an ATSF doodlebug pulling freight; its an Emery Gulash film and I think its on the first Santa Fe tape by Green Frog. Since a doodlebug is both freight and passenger itself, I suppose you could say its a mixed-mixed train. 

The ultimate mixed train:

 

I wish the manufacturers would a offer more by way of mixed consists. The NYC passenger-freight set of 1994 is the only one I can recall off the top of my head.

 

Peter

Thanks again for all the info.  I'm glad ColoragoHighRailer mentioned seeing diesel consists this way....that's the way I'm going with. 

Often, if a passenger car was used on a mixed train (instead of putting passengers in the caboose), it differed from other passenger equipment in not having steam heat.  Or, the passenger cars were behind the engine and were steam heated, while the freight was on the rear.  

 

Express boxcars were common on secondary trains and mail trains, but these differed from common boxcars in having through steam lines so that cars behind them could use steam heat.  They also had the ability to have their air brakes set for graduated release so that the engineer could reduce braking effort in increments when stopping (unlike freight car brakes which release entirely when released.  And, finally, many also had brackets for hanging marker lamps on the rear -- a standard feature of all pre-Amtrak passenger cars.

Believe mixed trains would almost always have the passenger accomadation at the rear, so as to not jostle passengers while on-line pick-ups and set-outs were being made. There is a "modern" (late '30s. Milwaukee Shops) Milwaukee Road branchline combine on display in Mendota, IL and it has a stove for heat. No steam lines on freight cars!

Mixed train at Marxville

 

And around the early Fifties Marx put out a mixed set headed by the 21 Santa Fe diesel.

How's this for "mixed"?  I've seen a photo from 1962 of an Erie-Lackawanna consist of 3 boxcars behind the diesels, then 2 baggage or RPO, a piggyback, another baggage, and 2 coaches in that order.

The Strasburg Railroad, famous for its passenger trains, also does a hefy freight business. This year saw a primarily steam operated freight business and the railroad, like they once offered years ago, once again offered people to ride in the caboose for a fee. This is REAL REVENUE freight. Not a photo charter. Riding their mixed freight has become so popular that it is not uncommon to see a coach or two, in addition to the caboose, on the train. Don't be surprised to see a doubleheader as well to move freight, sometimes steam/steam and steam/diesel doubleheaders.

 

http://www.strasburgrailroad.com/mixed-train.php

 

See below for some videos from Youtube: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8RbUecQjzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQM4BVd0W1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7BmVqkwr9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7BmVqkwr9Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXiEGxf_BRs

Another variation are express or milk cars tagged at the end of a passenger consist as I saw this nearly daily on the Soo Line "Laker"..anywhere from four to six express cars on the end outfitted with passenger trucks, bringing up the markers..The Rock Island passenger runs had piggyback cars on some runs.. ( I cannot recall which ones) Also on some short lines, or branch lines, even a doodlebug ( as JayJay mentioned ) would pull freights. On interurbans especially built freight trailers would be tagged at the end of passenger runs on a regular basis. I add similar milk cars ( Lionel) to the end of a doodlebug consist that runs on my own pike. My wife ( of course) insisted that that passenger trains do not carry freight cars. Sigh...

I really would love to see some of those Marx mixed trains.  I wish the Greenberg books on Marx would be updated and re-released......they are out of site on the secondary market!

 

Peter

I guess the Burlington O27 passenger set from 58(recently re-done by the LCCA) is a mixed train.

 

Peter

Class 1 railroads had separate freight and passenger managing structures.

 

The mixed train was usually under  the freight operations.

The Express trains and Milk trains were part of the Passenger Operations

Re Electroliner's noting that milk cars were on the end of Soo Line passenger trains, the C&NW did the same. This was done so that a switch engine could immediately upon arrival grab the milk car, due to milk's perishibility, and rush it over to a dairy.

I did see the RI TWIN CITY ROCKET with pigs on the end coming into Houston once.

 

 

In a way, the Amtrak AUTO TRAIN is a mixed.  Also, Amtrak has mixes with their M&E trains of the 1990's.

i had picked up a Marx mixed set from the 50's last year. if this is the kind of set you were referring too. sorry for the lack of quality photo. i could only find info about this set in one book, think the book was from 91, was a hardback, didnt catch the name.. i took a picture of the page for reference

 

 

 

The "Branchline Combines" that Mark S referred to on the Milw Rd were actually built on the same basic frames that their streamlined counterparts were built.  The "road" built them in their own shops and there were some 30 of them in various configurations.  So they might have shown up in most any parts of the system and they might have been either at the end of the train or directly behind the tender.

 

Couple of interesting points about them was that they were the only streamlined, lightweight cars that were built with coal stoves and oil lamps.  They had no electricity.  They were also built with open platforms at each end (except 10 that had RPO compartments) so the freight crews could use them in place of cabooses.

 

They were very interesting and different cars and I'd sure like to pick up a model of one for my "mixed trains" on my layout.

 

Paul Fischer

Many thanks!

 

Peter

Joe,

 

A great book on the AT&SF's mixed trains is "Coach, Cabbage and Caboose" by John B McCall.  Photos, schedules, text, roster of assigned cars and plans for many cars.

 

ChipR

Charlie: is Amtrak still handling produce today?         

guess my third picture didnt load of the marx set. oops 

I'll tell you what, I only posted this topic to get the thoughts of the ol' timers here (and I mean that with much respect).  Can't say I'm new to the hobby, but since my father passed in May, I've gotten hot and heavy into it, both model railroad wise as well as 1:1 wise.  He was a big fan of both.  I spent last weekend in Strasburg with my mother, doing the museam thing and making her suffer through the model thing.  Good times.  I just wanted you guys to know I'm very envious of the knowledge here.  I only asked the question because I'm a few cars short on my PRR setup, and adding boxcars to it would make it look better (rather than Dorky...which my daughter would agree that I am 100%).  My mother is coming for Christmas, I brought my father's platform down here and have set it up as best as possible prior to her arrival.  I'm missing alot, but if she see's his trains run, as well as the excitement in my eyes watching her see them move, it'll be worth it.  Wasn't an easy task, and the wallet has definetely taken a hit, but its been worth it.  Joining this forum has helped me more than I can ever say.

 

Thank you folks, I look forward to buggin you with more of my "dumb" questions as I continue on through getting Dad's platform up to speed.  It has truly been a pleasure.  Thank you to everyone.

 

Joe

 

P.S...this is like my own personal History Channel, just that I don't have to set the DVR to record the shows at 1:am in the morning, seems the good ones only come on at those times.....

mark

 

Good question

I don't know if they are are.

I was surprised by your input and did a small search on Goggle and found what i posted above.

 

A little more research on this subject is in order.

 

 

here's some PRR freight with passanger cars

 

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...=319454&nseq=238

 

http://www.railpictures.net/vi...=315842&nseq=250

 

With GG1 to boot....man this is good stuff.    Now i dont have a premier GG, but i got one.....i got goosebumps....

Those are mail and express cars, not general merchandise freight.

 

Rusty

Don't think they are freight.

The PRR ran railroad express boxcars on passenger and express trains.

These cars were built with steam lines and high speed passenger trucks and were not intended for frieght service.

Well I know they are REA/ mail cars, but in the first picture its a regular PRR boxcar, and what looks like a new haven car. Things most people have in their invatory.

What I didn't mention above in my first post but have on several other threads was

the Beebe and Clegg book, "Mixed Train Daily".  That title says it all, for anyone who

is not a believer in freights run with passenger cars.   And as shown above, Marx made a LOT of mixed train sets,  in the early six inch windups through #1829 Hudson and #1095 plastic ATSF diesels in the later years.  What I have not seen is any but Santa Fe locos used in those diesel sets, although the rule with Marx is, anything is possible.  I have not seen the #333 Pacific used in a Marx mixed train set, either.

Marx was kind of a stickler for realism...which is why I think later 3/16 freight sets,

all with an NYC tender, came with a NYC caboose replacing the Reading caboose on earlier sets.  Most (I'd never swearall) of the later plastic sets had cabooses matching whatever tender.

Pennsy had X29 boxcars lettered for the Railway Express Agency and presume these worked regularly on passenger and mail trains, plus were outfitted with steam and train lines. Atlas REA X29's are currently being offered by Middle Division (see Atlas website/Special Runs).