Full 'premium' wifi app

I think we've all been waiting too long. I work in the software industry and for this type of project to be delayed as many times and months as it has, someone or the whole development team needs to have been fired or sued. 

I will without a doubt, say that this is THE last thing that I will wait for from MTH.  IMO, they've led us on for over 2 years now. And as far as their catalogues, and ordering anything from them - FORGET IT !  It would be better for them to stop creating them and save the cost, cause they've lost all credibility with me. I'll pick up what I want from the used market from now on. At least that way, I KNOW it is available.  'Nuf said

To all those commentators wanting it to work great right straight off the App Store, have you not noticed that nearly every app on your phone or tablet as updates on a regular basis? That is part of the app development process, constant updates to add functionality and to address minor bugs, a nearly two year development cycle is scary, Facebook was developed in less time, I fear the the big promises are proving to be more than MTH is capable of overcoming or they are trying to do more than they should prior to release.

My frustration grows with this, as it does with many other posters here and in other spaces both physical and digital. I cannot see any means by which a modern company can make promises like train makers due, then either totally fail to deliver or deliver months or years later, and expect the consumer to accept that. Try it in your business and see how it goes.

Let's be honest, they have been struggling in recent years to have handrails on premier quality engines that don't have one end sticking out the hole in the shell, I have seen this minor detail issue on ten of the last 12 engines I have bought from MTH. If they cannot figure out how to add a drop of glue into a hole to keep a piece of wire "handrail" from coming out and scratching the shell, can we really expect them to release a fully developed error free app? Or perhaps that's the cause of the apps delay, they have the guy who used to glue in the handrails working on the app? 

MR_P posted:

I think we've all been waiting too long. I work in the software industry and for this type of project to be delayed as many times and months as it has, someone or the whole development team needs to have been fired or sued. 

I will without a doubt, say that this is THE last thing that I will wait for from MTH.  IMO, they've led us on for over 2 years now. And as far as their catalogues, and ordering anything from them - FORGET IT !  It would be better for them to stop creating them and save the cost, cause they've lost all credibility with me. I'll pick up what I want from the used market from now on. At least that way, I KNOW it is available.  'Nuf said

I think two years is being generous. 

The app was first announced in the 2014 Vol. 1 catalog which came out in fall 2013.  In that catalog they have what looks to be pictures of an early version of the app (which I think was scrapped and MTH had to start over due to some problems with the first development team). This tells me that the app development began much earlier in 2013.

There is a good chance that this app has been in development for almost 4 years.

To all those commentators wanting it to work great right straight off the App Store, have you not noticed that nearly every app on your phone or tablet as updates on a regular basis?

For the amount of time this thing has been in development, I think MTH will (have to) nail it from the start.  I suspect we may see an update or two for some minor bugs but otherwise the Premium app will be smooth sailing right out of the gate.

We all want this thing pretty bad, and it feels like we should have gotten it two Christmas' ago already. The Premium app will be a game changer for MTH and for DCS operators.

H1000

I infrequently post, but I regard my model trains as a hobby and the trains as fun and wonderful toys, hearkening back to when I was a kid.  Consequently, I am content to wait to receive the trains I pre-order (on which I only paid a deposit), and regarding this thread am more than willing to wait until whenever the premium app is released by MTH.  My one caveat is that I won't invest the money into DCS Wifi hardware until I know the software also works reasonably (well when finally released).  And when I occasionally get upset with balky trains, product delays or whatever, well, I take a time-out and do something else, including earning a living and spending time with family & friends.  I remind myself not to get angry over a hobby and my toys.  The hobby is supposed to be fun, and for me it is and I "work" to keep it that way, even with the delays, occasional breakdowns and all the rest.  And attending the York show twice a year is, for me, like going to a grown-up's toy store and having some R&R and fun. 

Whether it's 2 years late or 4 years late... both timeframes represent less than flattering performance.  But we live in a very different world these days.  And things get done in a wildly different environment today than a couple of decades ago. 

Companies seldom hold all the cards when developing these products.  And more often than not, third-party entities are leveraged to produce complicated products.  Although I have no inside knowledge about MTH's approach to building this app, I gather MTH has contracted an outside entity to work the solution.  We're not talking about a team of folks who "work as full-time MTH employees dedicated to this project" until it's completed.  Quite the contrary.  When I had a candid discussion with Mike Wolf about a variety of MTH products in development, this app was one of them we discussed.  And it sounded like the guy who Mike really wanted to work on this application was "sidetracked" on another project for MONTHS.  Whether that was another MTH project or a project for another company, I don't know.  But it's not that unusual for independent software gurus to work multiple projects for different companies, and priorities are constantly changing.  The real good guys and gals are busier than the proverbial one-arm paper-hangers.  And a year can pass in the blink of an eye for them, while those same 12 months seem like an eternity for enthusiasts waiting on the app.  I think that's the boat we find ourselves with this app.

Just keeping it real, folks.

David

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Whether it's 2 years late or 4 years late... both timeframes represent less than flattering performance. 

it sounded like the guy who Mike really wanted to work on this application was "sidetracked" on another project for MONTHS.  

But it's not that unusual for independent software gurus to work multiple projects for different companies, and priorities are constantly changing.  The real good guys and gals are busier than the proverbial one-arm paper-hangers.  And a year can pass in the blink of an eye for them, while those same 12 months seem like an eternity for enthusiasts waiting on the app.  I think that's the boat we find ourselves with this app.

Just keeping it real, folks.

David

 

David,

I totally disagree. This app is not some totally innovative app that requires a 'guru'. I have led multiple software development projects. I don't need gurus to deliver on time and on budget. This app is not difficult, unless there are problems with the WiFi unit, and we are looking at a firmware release. The app is a visual interface to a command protocol stack on the WiFi unit. The app itself should have been easy to develop with a standard system develop lifecycle (requirements, design, code, test, release). Skip or shortcut any of those steps and you are in deep doo-doo.

The problem is that 'gurus' sometimes are much better at innovative applications than they are at following a SDLC. I had a guru on a project. When his code didn't work, we found out nobody else could read it. He didn't document anything in his code, his variables weren't declared, and he used variable names that followed no rational convention and were impossible to trace. So, nobody could help him. He was on an island, and we ended up rewriting his code with someone who was not a guru, but who was a good developer. Today we use code reviews with a team of developers to keep the gurus from becoming renegades.

The moral of this story is that whatever MTH did here was not a professional job, or it would have been delivered on time and on budget.

That's keeping it real in my book.

George

By the way, it is entirely possible that we are looking at a full DCS release and WiFi unit firmware upgrade to make this app work. That may be a more valid reason why there is such a delay.

Yes.  It is in development.  Other threads are addressing the same question.

Meanwhile, DCS-bearing locos run just fine under the remote and current apps, so trains can be enjoyed.

This thread is funny, let's not forget the point that like 15 or months after buying several $150 wifi modules I still can't really use the Effing things cuz they can't seem to get the app done. 

Still can't use mine without unplugging and restarting the thing constantly because engines become inactive. Did the firmware update which I've argued should have been done before my purchase. $200 later between the wifi unit and cables and I'm frustrated every time I use it. Wonder if the new app will fix the "inactive engine" issue. Wouldn't that be comical if I spend another $25 to have the same issue. 

I've had the same issues with engines moving to the inactive list. It happens when I'm running the engine then suddenly I can't control them and it does a read and puts it into the inactive list. I'm hoping SUPER TIU mode will eliminate this

This thread is funny, let's not forget the point that like 15 or months after buying several $150 wifi modules I still can't really use the Effing things cuz they can't seem to get the app done.

Bravo, Sierra.  My two work fine.  Must be operator deficiency.

RJR posted:

This thread is funny, let's not forget the point that like 15 or months after buying several $150 wifi modules I still can't really use the Effing things cuz they can't seem to get the app done.

Bravo, Sierra.  My two work fine.  Must be operator deficiency.

I think Matt means that it won't run TMCC trains, conventional trains, run in Super TIU mode and many other things. If he bought several, he is clearly limited by the current app.

George S posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Whether it's 2 years late or 4 years late... both timeframes represent less  

David,

I totally disagree. This app is not some totally innovative app that requires a 'guru'. I

George

By the way, it is entirely possible that we are looking at a full DCS release and WiFi unit firmware upgrade to make this app work. That may be a more valid reason why there is such a delay.

Well, confirmed in another thread, the new app will need a TIU update. That means the app developers were waiting on the TIU developers and visa versa. This greatly complicates things. I wonder if a WIU update will also be needed? I would expect so, if the TIU is updated.

George

No, I have 3 TIUs on my layout and the app does not support super tiu mode yet so when moving a train from one tiu to another causes an error screen related to engine not there (I forget what this error is exactly, if you care that much I'll create it next week and screen shot it). When this error screen comes up it forces a read of the layout which then puts almost all of my locos into the inactive list. Super tiu mode will eliminate this but I have also gotten this error when not traversing between TIUs and I get the same forced read and the same push of most locos to the inactive list (from which only another read will remove them). This is a massive problem as I have signal strength of 9 and 10s everywhere on my layout so I'm hoping super tiu mode will solve this. So you can say BS all you want but mine don't work fine

I can wait for the app.  I'm controlling all my trains with hand held controllers, and, for now, that works fine for me.  After everything has been released and well tested, I might decide to use screen control.

I believe it was Andrew Carnegie who said, "Pioneering doesn't pay."

Yeah, I never use the app, I just use the remotes. They work better

Tony_V posted:

Just visited the MTH site.  It now says:

• The $24.99 PREMIUM version provides the user with full DCS control and more. The PREMIUM versions is slated to deliver in March 2017.

I'm disappointed but not surprised.

Tony 

Just visited the MTH site.  It now says:

The $24.99 PREMIUM version provides the user with full DCS control and more. The PREMIUM versions is slated to deliver in April 2017.

I'm waiting for a post on the forum to say PREMIUM DCS WIFI APP AVAILABLE NOW!!! Then I'll get it

I wonder of the release of the new software (app and firmwares) will be tied to the release of the new DCS Explorer that was subject of this thread.

With the new DCS Explorer set to deliver with 2017 starter sets - you'd think they'd have to have the Full App ready - no reason to disappoint new customers - or miss sales!

I wonder of the release of the new software (app and firmwares) will be tied to the release of the new DCS Explorer that was subject of this thread.

There's no connection at all between the two.

With the new DCS Explorer set to deliver with 2017 starter sets - you'd think they'd have to have the Full App ready - no reason to disappoint new customers - or miss sales!

The DCS Explorer will use a completely different, free app. It will also be a while before it's available.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

I wonder of the release of the new software (app and firmwares) will be tied to the release of the new DCS Explorer that was subject of this thread.

There's no connection at all between the two.

With the new DCS Explorer set to deliver with 2017 starter sets - you'd think they'd have to have the Full App ready - no reason to disappoint new customers - or miss sales!

The DCS Explorer will use a completely different, free app. It will also be a while before it's available.

Thanks for that clarification - I was aware that the DCS Explorer was not full blown DCS setup  - but didn't realize the apps would be any different.

Well at least it sounds like they are very close to release.  That is good. 

After all, its not like I have been waiting all this time  for a part for my broken cardiac defibrilator.

Ed

It's available now! I downloaded it from the google store then upgraded the TIU and remote with the new version 6 using the DCS downloader V5. Here is the link to the MTH site with the V6 download.

 http://mthtrains.com/dcs-versi...are-upgrade-revision

  So far I've been able to get my accessories, Switches and one of my Premier locomotives responding to my Android phone. To this point I wasn't able to build a Lashup mainly due to the app not seeing my locomotives that already are in a Lashup on my remote. By the way nothing transfers from the remote to the smart device app, it all has to be entered in. Too bad I was hoping it would be as easy as JMRI in that sense.

  Also at this point the app hasn't been able to operate any of my legacy locomotives. I can enter them and they go in the active list but nothing happens? I'm out of time for tonight but finally.

Update Legacy mode does not work for me at all but in the TMCC mode it will control my Legacy engines as before.

That's great.  Is there a TIU version 6 for apple applications?

Same tiu and remote software for either app.

  I believe there is Apple compatibility from something I read but I was off and running on the things that pertained to what I needed to get going. When I first downloaded the app it didn't ask for any payment however once I opened the app and tried to access the accessory icon at the bottom it said I had to purchase the premium app at that point. The price was $19.95, then I was able to start using all the features. Since my post last night I was able to set up an MTH lash-up no problem. What I've noticed is that even though I have the locomotives already stored in the app from running them on the previous version so far I've had to ask the new app to add a new MTH locomotive. If I don't do that they never move from the bottom of the list to the active. Also now they stay up at the top in the active list just like our hand held remote. Another thing I've noticed is the quilling whistle feature seems to work better but still not as well as the Lionel Legacy system.

 For those of you using the MTH 4000 with a remote commander we are out of luck so far as the app still doesn't have the ability to adjust the transformers output even though the hand held remote has and still does.

Also still no luck with running in the Legacy mode only TMCC.

  George

RJR posted:

Same tiu and remote software for either app.

I assume this is a question and no you need to update to version 6 on both.  The link is in my first post.

 George

By the way nothing transfers from the remote to the smart device app, it all has to be entered in. Too bad I was hoping it would be as easy as JMRI in that sense.

It is easy. Just change the file name on a DCS Remote clone file from .txt to .mth and E-mail it to yourself as an attachment. Then, double click on the attachment in the E-mail on your phone or table and follow the instructions on the device.

It works like a charm.

What I've noticed is that even though I have the locomotives already stored in the app from running them on the previous version so far I've had to ask the new app to add a new MTH locomotive. If I don't do that they never move from the bottom of the list to the active.

Just tap refresh on the Engine Control Screen (upper left corner). Alternately, pull down on the screen when in the Engine Roster Screen to also refresh the engine list.

 For those of you using the MTH 4000 with a remote commander we are out of luck so far as the app still doesn't have the ability to adjust the transformers output even though the hand held remote has and still does.

Unfortunately, that won't ever come to pass without hardware intervention. The Z4000 doesn't speak 2.4 GHz (WiFi).

No, I was responding to Steve's question in the post above mine.

The app is in your smartphone or tablet.  The version 6.0 software is in all TIUs and remotes that you use, and it doesn't care what app is sending it the commands. 

Are you saying that the TIU does not need to be updated to v6.0?  It's a bit confusing.

Sorry, in the context of Apple device.  

Both TIU and remote have to be updated to version 6.0 regardless of which app you're using. 

If one is using the app instead of the remote then only the TIU requires updating in addition to downloading the premium app.  Correct?

Thanks Barry that's great info, do you know anything regarding my inability to get my Legacy locomotives working in the Legacy mode on the app?

   George

Steve, the remote has to be the same version as the TIU, regardless of whether or not you use the app.  Apparently there is some minor change in the remote software.  Sure, if you don't update the remote, the app and the updated TIU will work fine, but there could be an issue if you try using the remote.  If you've got everything hooked up to update a TIU, you might as well just go ahead and update the remote.  Only takes a few steps.

Thanks RJR.  I don't have a remote as I've been relying totally on the App.  Since I'm new to this it didn't seem to make sense to buy a remote given that it seems to me the remote will be shortly obsolete if not now.  

A lot depends on how you run your layout.  I've been using the wifi since it came out, and the new app for several weeks.  I find the new app to be quite good, and it works fine.  However, my personal preference, when I have 4+/- trains running at once on a 36x16 layout, over connected and crossing routes, with a frequent need to throw switches, I often use a remote in each hand.  To me, this is easier than trying to switch among windows.  Certainly, if your mode of operation lends itself to the app, use it.

George,

do you know anything regarding my inability to get my Legacy locomotives working in the Legacy mode on the app?

What exactly is the issue with your Legacy engines? Regardless:

• Make certain that you've correctly identified them as Legacy rather than TMCC.
• That you've correctly indicated to the app to which TIU the Legacy base is connected,

Barry Broskowitz posted:

George,

do you know anything regarding my inability to get my Legacy locomotives working in the Legacy mode on the app?

What exactly is the issue with your Legacy engines? Regardless:

• Make certain that you've correctly identified them as Legacy rather than TMCC.
• That you've correctly indicated to the app to which TIU the Legacy base is connected,

Barry,

   At this point when I select Legacy in the app I can enter the information but can not control the locomotive in any way as if the engine isn't on the track. Given all things the same by selecting TMCC instead of Legacy I can run the engines the same as with the Remote.

 Thanks for your time and thoughts.

  George 

George,

Given all things the same by selecting TMCC instead of Legacy I can run the engines the same as with the Remote.

Do you mean that, if you change the engine's type from Legacy to TMCC you can control it?

Regardless, make certain that DCS was provided with the engine's correct TMCC ID# and the correct TIU number when the engine was added.